Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27794231 - 05/26/22 07:21 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Gov't is generally less efficient at directing resources to the people with the most money to spend than markets but I think it's less clear as to whether or not that outcome is desirable.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemetalfaith
Moron
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 1,842
Loc: FL
Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27794582 - 05/27/22 01:55 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Gov't is generally less efficient at directing resources to the people with the most money to spend than markets but I think it's less clear as to whether or not that outcome is desirable.



Agreed.

Hence why I would love if the market could solve all problems.. But the reality is that the incentive systems of the market don't always align... And can often be quite contradictory.

I.e. slavery.  Not a solution the market ever could solve... Because it doesn't have a "moral eye".

And I think one of the major differences between the left and the right at this point are admitting the limitations of the market..
Then the Right nearly worshipping the Market.


--------------------

Edited by metalfaith (05/27/22 01:57 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 5 hours, 49 minutes
Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27794718 - 05/27/22 06:12 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Neither Adam Smith's mechanisms of the market or Karl Marx's predictions of where those failures would lead to is playing out. The Keynesian toolkit worked OK in the Depression but not later.  Our system can't even make a small dent in the ever increasing concentration of wealth at the top. We have a tournament, winner take all, economic system and somehow a majority is buying into it.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 1 hour, 26 minutes
Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27794792 - 05/27/22 07:33 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Hmm. I guess I haven't read all of Marx, but didn't he say that we'd have a large class of underemployed people perpetually living in poverty, used as a threat against the employed but underpaid, while a few individuals collected dynastic wealth?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 5 hours, 49 minutes
Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27794820 - 05/27/22 08:13 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Marx didn't concentrate or think favorably about the lowest rung that he called the lumpen proletariat. He thought they were a negative force in achieving socialism. The agent of change was the perpetually employed proletariat who would become class conscious and then organize in their class interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat

Your remarks made sense, but I think fit better with non-Marxist economic theory.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 1 hour, 26 minutes
Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27794936 - 05/27/22 10:32 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I mean, we have that, just not exactly in the same sense that Marx predicted. Partly due to the conflation of social and economic classes. Partly because Marx did not accurately predict racial relations in the US.

If we get rid of all nonwhite people, then the lumpenproletariat (and the lowest rung) will largely consist of rural white folk, who are conveniently the biggest defenders of capitalism right now. Well. Sort of. They talk a lot about the failures of capitalism, but they vote pretty consistently in favor of exploitation.

Something about convincing the lowest white man they're better than the black man and picking their pockets comes to mind. It's the same thing, just that capitalism has evolved to add a socially-enforced class of economic cannon fodder to protect the lower flank. Which is running out.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Marxist theory Phred 1,064 7 09/20/02 06:48 AM
by foghorn
* Karl Marx was wrong
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Sclorch 8,190 122 08/17/03 03:43 PM
by d33p
* Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism lonestar2004 1,300 10 07/28/06 11:40 AM
by Vvellum
* Oil War: A Marxist Perspective Annapurna1 810 9 11/12/03 04:25 PM
by Bhairabas
* Marxist Metaphors: Shroomery Policy!
( 1 2 all )
PapaverS 2,340 21 02/22/04 04:15 AM
by Papaver
* Evidence Begins To Indicate Gary Webb Was Murdered usefulidiot 1,494 9 12/21/04 04:43 PM
by usefulidiot
* Amnesty concedes no hard evidence
( 1 2 all )
lonestar2004 1,933 23 06/13/05 11:20 AM
by RandalFlagg
* BC gets neoconservative "medicine"
( 1 2 all )
carbonhoots 2,614 20 02/10/02 05:33 AM
by Phred

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,428 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.