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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Asante]
    #27785351 - 05/20/22 07:40 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Hartford said:

The hierarchy, at the top, is composed of the intellgencia, or the thinkers that live in harmony with nature..





Can you name 10 so I can get an idea?




It's difficult to tell who actually is living in harmony with nature, but Gretta Thundberg, John Kerry and Alan Rockefeller come to mind.




So if you're a right winger, how come you don't like anyone who's right wing?



Quote:

Asante said:
Do you consider the alt right cult around Trump "down to earth"?

Do you consider the Jan 6 insurrection "down to earth"?

If you do "down to earth" to you means "sunk to a new low" and not "more in touch with the factual state of things"




It's the fiscal conservatism that I appreciate most. Thoughtfulness is good, too

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27785368 - 05/20/22 08:15 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

But there are no (to my knowledge) fiscal conservatives on your list. I don't know Alan Rockefeller's that well, but I don't think he had much in common with the other Rockefeller's. But he did pick a great Shroomery name.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27785372 - 05/20/22 08:21 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:

So if you're a right winger, how come you don't like anyone who's right wing?





The's the top of his own pyramid :egyptian:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27785379 - 05/20/22 08:39 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
I'm a right winger who is happy to explain the truth to you.

The hierarchy, at the top, is composed of the intellgencia, or the thinkers that live in harmony with nature. They are the most powerful even though their ideas are often socially repugnant to the masses.

Bellow them, cultures which live in harmony with nature, like the Amish, who by sheer obedience to conservatism rather than intellectual discourse, have come to retain power.

Below them, social conservatives, who don't live in harmony with nature but do seek social harmony with regards to the nuclear family, also usually retaining strength through religions adherence.

Below them, people whose worldview is neither harmonious with nature nor conducive to the harmony of the nuclear family, anarchists.




:hahthatsrich:

Holy shit. Thank god the truth explainer has logged on to dispense wisdom from on high, lmao.


--------------------


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #27785407 - 05/20/22 09:08 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

“Hah, I’d be happy to explain our beliefs, not sure why everyone else refuses”

*the most casually fascist shit you’ve ever seen*


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27785475 - 05/20/22 10:13 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Environmentalism is a liberal phenomenon, only because Christianity has subverted the culture, but as Christianity comes down, you'll see more right-wing environmentalists.

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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27785505 - 05/20/22 10:42 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Basically, the truth will rule the day, and  right wingers are more down to earth.

Let me explain it: the more sustainable a culture is, the more powerful they will be and the more intelligent they are, the more influence they will have.

Leftwingers are not only bitches, they don't reproduce, therefore they don't have the future, they're very ideologically disorganized, they are driven by the whims of human sentiment and are thereforevery wasteful...the only thing they have going for them is environmentalism, which is why some are at the top of the hierarchy.


i think both sides have there super chill people an the crazy fucks. Im more right wing but there are things on the left i do agree with not one side is better than the other.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27785508 - 05/20/22 10:42 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Christianity is inherently environmentalist.

God has given us the earth with the expectation that we will be good stewards of the earth and all that lives upon it.

Liberals sell plastic wristbands that show that you planted a tree and conservatives work to abolish all industrial emission limits and return to coal. Next stop is putting the lead back in gasoline to increase the Republican voter base.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27785561 - 05/20/22 11:17 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Environmentalism is a liberal phenomenon, only because Christianity has subverted the culture, but as Christianity comes down, you'll see more right-wing environmentalists.



Holy shit this is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

After-Post Edit: I do not intend to denigrate the influence that religious beliefs can have on environmental policy. But if you look at history, American Christians were environmental until, I want to say the 70s? Then the Republican rhetoric finally washed that out and the Republican rhetoric influenced Christianity(American Christianity, as a general monolith) to be less environmental. Not the other way around. I will try to find proof for this later. Maybe.

I was beginning to think Hartford was a relatively smart guy on the forums, but dang this is Looney Tunes level. :lolsy:

Modern industrialisation has created a system that will ALWAYS be cheaper if the maker is less environmentally friendly.

Burning fuel for electricity? To filter it or to not? Costs a shitload to do so... Cue Republican rhetoric about regulation increasing costs.... And Republicans are not environmentally friendly.

Making pharmaceuticals? Always cheaper to dump the waste into the ocean than create regulation that remediates those poisons.... And cue the talk or regulation. Republicans are not environmentally friendly.

Recycling plastic and other shit? Cheaper to throw the aluminum away until the cost of aluminum/plastic/etc increases enough to incentivize us to do so. Until then.... The landfill it is! Wait... What states have the tax on cans that is given back when you recycle them? Oh right... Not Republican ones.

My final after-post edit: (((We can keep going forever, too! When you change your own oil, is it easier to dump the oil right there in your yard/sink/etc, or make another trip back to the parts store to recycle it?

Etc ad infinitum)))



Holy shit I get how disgusting the left is now... But we cant just make shit up...:shakeface:

Privitize profits, socialize losses!


--------------------

Edited by metalfaith (05/20/22 12:07 PM)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27785662 - 05/20/22 12:28 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Environmentalism is a liberal phenomenon, only because Christianity has subverted the culture, but as Christianity comes down, you'll see more right-wing environmentalists.




Pretty sure capitalism (the idea to produce as much as possible on a planet with finite resources) is what’s holding back environmentalism, and not the religious doctrine based on the idea that man has dominion over the planet and has a duty to defend/protect it.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27785677 - 05/20/22 12:40 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Christians see God's command to fill the earth and subdue it as a spiritual commission to spead the gospel, which says that the Antichrist will take over and the apocalypse will ruin the earth. Not much incentive to clean things up.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27785681 - 05/20/22 12:43 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

As opposed to other republicans, at the forefront of environmentalist activism.


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Omnicyclion.org
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27785733 - 05/20/22 01:12 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Christians see God's command to fill the earth and subdue it as a spiritual commission to spead the gospel, which says that the Antichrist will take over and the apocalypse will ruin the earth. Not much incentive to clean things up.




I don’t think many Christians believed in a literal version of Revelations after, say, the Industrial Revolution. Point taken though.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 1,842
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27785734 - 05/20/22 01:12 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Christians see God's command to fill the earth and subdue it as a spiritual commission to spead the gospel, which says that the Antichrist will take over and the apocalypse will ruin the earth. Not much incentive to clean things up.



I am a Christian and am pretty much, regrettably, entirely surrounded(in my social group) by people who are lifetime Republicans that voted Trump. I know this firsthand.. Unfortunately that is the above quoted line is one that I've heard parroted several times. Problem is it is just that, parroting what they heard.

Do a small bit of research on how American Christians have interacted with politics in the last 50 years.

Just a bit of research to verify or validate your opinions would show that, while that argument seems persuasive, it is no different than the previous Biblical argument used: God created. The Earth and specifically instructed us to steward and care for the earth.

And then you can easily see, as the Bible says, people are simply sheep. Has nothing to do with Christianity, per se, but more to do with the Nature of Humanity and how easily persuaded we are.

And understanding how and when that happened in the USA will show what I have already said:

Republican Propaganda/The Republican Party swallowed American Christianity and it's perspective on environmentalismNOT the other way around.


But none of that has any relevance to this stand-alone argument, that super surprisingly, was completely ignored:

(Not Capitalism per se, IMO, as Ecstatic said) Industrialism without proper and appropriate regulation ALWAYS(or 95-99% or whatever) makes it cheaper to produce products that directly harms the environment, rather than spend money remediate the waste/recycle/etc.

But as we know, you can't reason someone out of a conclusion they didn't reason themselvea into. :shrug::cookiemonster::elmo:


--------------------

Edited by metalfaith (05/20/22 01:13 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27793418 - 05/26/22 08:30 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Environmentalism is a liberal phenomenon, only because Christianity has subverted the culture, but as Christianity comes down, you'll see more right-wing environmentalists.



Holy shit this is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

After-Post Edit: I do not intend to denigrate the influence that religious beliefs can have on environmental policy. But if you look at history, American Christians were environmental until, I want to say the 70s? Then the Republican rhetoric finally washed that out and the Republican rhetoric influenced Christianity(American Christianity, as a general monolith) to be less environmental. Not the other way around. I will try to find proof for this later. Maybe.

I was beginning to think Hartford was a relatively smart guy on the forums, but dang this is Looney Tunes level. :lolsy:

Modern industrialisation has created a system that will ALWAYS be cheaper if the maker is less environmentally friendly.

Burning fuel for electricity? To filter it or to not? Costs a shitload to do so... Cue Republican rhetoric about regulation increasing costs.... And Republicans are not environmentally friendly.

Making pharmaceuticals? Always cheaper to dump the waste into the ocean than create regulation that remediates those poisons.... And cue the talk or regulation. Republicans are not environmentally friendly.

Recycling plastic and other shit? Cheaper to throw the aluminum away until the cost of aluminum/plastic/etc increases enough to incentivize us to do so. Until then.... The landfill it is! Wait... What states have the tax on cans that is given back when you recycle them? Oh right... Not Republican ones.

My final after-post edit: (((We can keep going forever, too! When you change your own oil, is it easier to dump the oil right there in your yard/sink/etc, or make another trip back to the parts store to recycle it?

Etc ad infinitum)))



Holy shit I get how disgusting the left is now... But we cant just make shit up...:shakeface:

Privitize profits, socialize losses!




At this point, it's becoming cheaper to be environmentally friendly. The US government heavily subsidizes oil to ensure that it is competitive with renewable alternatives.

Similarly, industrial dumping is becoming more expensive than reselling waste as feedstock for other industrial processes. One man's waste is another man's treasure is becoming much more true. Literally all the way down to shit. Due to the demand for fertilizer, sewage services can often turn a profit selling human shit.

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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27793496 - 05/26/22 09:37 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:

Christians see God's command to fill the earth and subdue it as a spiritual commission to spead the gospel, which says that the Antichrist will take over and the apocalypse will ruin the earth. Not much incentive to clean things up.




There are wacky nutcases on both sides of the aisle, but I've never heard any of my conservative voting friends speak of any notion like this. As a teenager, it was my liberal Christain friends who insisted that Ronald Wilson Reagan (666) was the Antichrist and that the apocalypse was very close at hand.

For decades the Democrats have been saying the end of the world is near. They love gloom and doom!

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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27793818 - 05/26/22 02:44 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

At this point, it's becoming cheaper to be environmentally friendly. The US government heavily subsidizes oil to ensure that it is competitive with renewable alternatives.

Similarly, industrial dumping is becoming more expensive than reselling waste as feedstock for other industrial processes. One man's waste is another man's treasure is becoming much more true. Literally all the way down to shit. Due to the demand for fertilizer, sewage services can often turn a profit selling human shit.




Care to elaborate where in the USA that is happening with plastic?

That certainly naturally happens in many markets but I don't see how that could do what is necessary without constantly evolving regulation... Of which the Right is pretty much constantly shitting on.

These incentive system exist because the government creates them in the first place. Therefore it only makes sense that the government can and must change the rules within them.

Edits for clarity.. Also i said the left is constantly shitting on regulation. Hopefully it was obvious the only party shitting on regulation non-stop is the Right.


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Edited by metalfaith (05/26/22 06:29 PM)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Hartford]
    #27793863 - 05/26/22 03:32 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)



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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: metalfaith]
    #27794129 - 05/26/22 06:10 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

metalfaith said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

At this point, it's becoming cheaper to be environmentally friendly. The US government heavily subsidizes oil to ensure that it is competitive with renewable alternatives.

Similarly, industrial dumping is becoming more expensive than reselling waste as feedstock for other industrial processes. One man's waste is another man's treasure is becoming much more true. Literally all the way down to shit. Due to the demand for fertilizer, sewage services can often turn a profit selling human shit.




Care to elaborate where in the USA that is happening with plastic?

That certainly naturally happens in many markets but I don't see how that could without constantly evolving regulation... Of which the left is pretty much constantly shitting on.

These incentive system exist because the government creates them in the first place. Therefore it only makes sense that the government can and must change the rules within them.




For plastic specifically? Here

You are absolutely correct that regulation is still the primary driver of innovation in many industries. But not all.

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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: Rightwingers: which Hierarchies do you hold Self Evident? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27794178 - 05/26/22 06:39 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Plastic still seems to be the largest waste resource we are creating that is quite obviously not renewable... At least in the good ol USA...


That was the only reason I used it.. Widespread  and obvious.


I figured we'd end up agreeing in the end. I was simply misunderstanding your intent.


Listen, I hope to God the market solves nearly all problems. Government is a much less efficient solution. I don't think anyone on the Left or Right would disagree with that.


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