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ShinyWartortle
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Question about pasteurization.
#27774469 - 05/12/22 06:35 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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So I read that slow cookers get to 145-160F on the warm setting. Do you think it would be possible for me to put jars/bags into it and leave it for 12 or so hours? I'm going to probably try it anyways but if it's very clearly going to be a failure I won't. I filled a gallon ziplock bag about a quarter full will coir/BRF and I'm just wondering if that will work instead of doing the bucket tek? I don't have a bucket, last time I just poured the boiling water onto the cow poop I had (I don't have any poo left nor verm) in a shoebox which worked so I'll do that if need be but I was just very curious about the slow cooker since it does get up to temp. Should I just throw the coir in by itself or in a container? This question is probably obvious and stupid to most of you so I'm sorry if it is.
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MTZ
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As long as it doesn't get too far over 160. Either way, it'll be 1000x better than pouring some unknown temp water in a shoebox. That's just asking for problems since it doesn't even almost pasteurize it as I'm sure you found out.
-------------------- Rehears your death every morning and night. Only when you constantly live as though already a corpse will you find freedom in the martial way, and fulfill your duties without fault throughout your life. ~ The Book Of Samurai
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I live in the void. I can go to the in between anytime I desire. I visit the spirt world.
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: MTZ]
#27774491 - 05/12/22 06:58 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
MTZ said: As long as it doesn't get too far over 160. Either way, it'll be 1000x better than pouring some unknown temp water in a shoebox. That's just asking for problems since it doesn't even almost pasteurize it as I'm sure you found out.
Actually, pouring the water into the shoebox seemed to do the trick good enough for my pan spawn to colonize the poo. They're fully colonized and I'm waiting to see if they'll fruit. The extra manure I had left after "pasteurizing" it did indeed mold after about a week of sitting in it's container but the shoebox has fully colonized surprisingly.
Edited by ShinyWartortle (05/12/22 07:01 PM)
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BagOfDicks
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There's lots of people who don't pasteurize coir, but I did it for my last grow. The slow cooker would probably work fine, but I don't know if I would go that long. I was just reading this thread and it looks like you don't want to hit core temp for more than 1-2 hours. Would probably be better to get a meat thermometer, get it to field capacity, measure the inner temp of your container until it's up to proper temp. Then keep it up to temp for another hour or slightly longer.
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: BagOfDicks]
#27774497 - 05/12/22 07:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
BagOfDicks said: There's lots of people who don't pasteurize coir, but I did it for my last grow. The slow cooker would probably work fine, but I don't know if I would go that long. I was just reading this thread and it looks like you don't want to hit core temp for more than 1-2 hours. Would probably be better to get a meat thermometer, get it to field capacity, measure the inner temp of your container until it's up to proper temp. Then keep it up to temp for another hour or slightly longer.
Gotcha! I'll get it up to temp and keep it on the warm setting for about an hour or so. Thanks for your input! It's much appreciated.
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BagOfDicks
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Im able to just shut my burner off completely and put a lid on to hold in the heat. Doesn't drop below 140 for a little over an hour. Also, keep in mind that it's better to let them cool down slowly. I let the temp come down slowly in the pot (with the lid on). I think this is better for promoting the beneficial bacteria.
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: BagOfDicks] 1
#27774511 - 05/12/22 07:17 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
BagOfDicks said: Im able to just shut my burner off completely and put a lid on to hold in the heat. Doesn't drop below 140 for a little over an hour. Also, keep in mind that it's better to let them cool down slowly. I let the temp come down slowly in the pot (with the lid on). I think this is better for promoting the beneficial bacteria.
That makes sense. I'll get it up to temp for a bit and turn it off and let it slowly cool down. You've been very helpful! +5 shroomies for the ol' BagOfDicks
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MTZ
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: BagOfDicks]
#27774515 - 05/12/22 07:20 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hold on. Maybe I'm reading this wrong. He's not necessarily doing for the coir. It's for the BRF. And yeah, I don't even know how long that smaller amount would take to get to 160. But it can be held there for a while. I don't hold wheat straw there as long as most other stuff. But some of my stuff has to cook for a LONG time. And with that flour in it, it most definitely wouldn't hurt to add some time. Kinda for the same reason we even PC it for PF tek. I use a shit ton of it on the other side of this whole mushroom growing thing. If not zapped good enough, it gets nasty real fast. I had to toss so many 10lb bags before I could properly do it on a larger scale.
-------------------- Rehears your death every morning and night. Only when you constantly live as though already a corpse will you find freedom in the martial way, and fulfill your duties without fault throughout your life. ~ The Book Of Samurai
........
I live in the void. I can go to the in between anytime I desire. I visit the spirt world.
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: MTZ]
#27774519 - 05/12/22 07:25 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
MTZ said: Hold on. Maybe I'm reading this wrong. He's not necessarily doing for the coir. It's for the BRF. And yeah, I don't even know how long that smaller amount would take to get to 160. But it can be held there for a while. I don't hold wheat straw there as long as most other stuff. But some of my stuff has to cook for a LONG time. And with that flour in it, it most definitely wouldn't hurt to add some time. Kinda for the same reason we even PC it for PF tek. I use a shit ton of it on the other side of this whole mushroom growing thing. If not zapped good enough, it gets nasty real fast. I had to toss so many 10lb bags before I could properly do it on a larger scale.
Yeah it's mainly for the brf. I could just steam it in a pot but I don't want to exactly sterilize the coir. I'd rather pasteurize it So I'm hoping the slow cooker for a few hours will do what it needs to. I'm just testing it out though while I have the time to mess with this stuff every day. If the ziplock bag does colonize I'm thinking about fruiting it in the bag but it may be better to spawn to bulk. I dunno. Thank you too though. I appreciate all the help I can get lol
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hazyhorse
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can you even pasteurize BRF? i was under the impression it needed to be sterilized like grains do before use, but that the heat transfer in BRF worked well enough to use steam to sterilize in a reasonable amount of time. not saying it’s impossible if others have done it but i’ve never seen anything on pasteurizing BRF
coir by itself doesn’t have to be pasteurized or sterilized at all, i’ve used cold tap water & been totally fine
why not just do cakes & then spawn them to the coir? is there a reason you’re trying to do this all in the same bag? i just don’t see it going well
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: hazyhorse]
#27774559 - 05/12/22 07:48 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: can you even pasteurize BRF? i was under the impression it needed to be sterilized like grains do before use, but that the heat transfer in BRF worked well enough to use steam to sterilize in a reasonable amount of time. not saying it’s impossible if others have done it but i’ve never seen anything on pasteurizing BRF
coir by itself doesn’t have to be pasteurized or sterilized at all, i’ve used cold tap water & been totally fine
why not just do cakes & then spawn them to the coir? is there a reason you’re trying to do this all in the same bag? i just don’t see it going well
I'm just seeing if it would work lol is it not the same concept as cakes though? Wouldn't it be the equivalent of one big jar? I have less jars than gallon ziplock bags so I figured I'd attempt it and see what happened in a month or so 😅 also I know coir doesn't HAVE to be pasteurized but I've heard sterilizing it is pretty bad for contams so I figured steaming the bag would be worse than attempting to pasteurize. I didn't know that BRF had to be steamed though honestly so that's something new I've learned.
Edited by ShinyWartortle (05/12/22 07:50 PM)
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hazyhorse
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well we don’t pasteurize grain jars so in that way it would be different. you’d have a mess of mold trying to pasteurize grains & then inoculate them.
where did you hear sterilizing coir is bad? it doesn’t change anything about the coir aside from heating it up. it’s functionally no different than just using it straight with cold water aside from being sterilized until it touches open air, which is what everything is spawned in anyways
BRF & grains need to be sterilized, pasteurization is saved for nutritious substrates like straw or manure because if you fully sterilize manure & then spawn in open air, contaminates come make a home. pasteurization preserves the beneficial stuff in the manure to ward off contams as the myc colonizes it. coir is non nutritious & is just there for water, so it doesn’t need to be pasteurized or sterilized. if you sterilized the coir+BRF bags & then inoculated them in an SAB or whatever then it might work, but i don’t see pasteurizing it working very well
you said you don’t have a PC right? how did you do your PF tek jars? steaming them is like THE reason that tek exists
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: hazyhorse]
#27774592 - 05/12/22 08:01 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Coir isn't nutritious at all? I thought it was, just not super nutritious. I thought sterilizing coir would make it more likely to contam. I'm not sure where I read the post. Not even sure if it was on here or not. Yeah i don't have a PC, I've just always steamed my PF jars. If there's absolutely no nutrition in coir then I guess I'll just steam my bags then lol
Would steaming grains work if you did it for a long time or is a PC the absolute only way to go with grains?
Edited by ShinyWartortle (05/12/22 08:02 PM)
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hazyhorse
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i mean, maybe it’s slightly nutritious & im sure on some level the myc might consume it, im not a coir scientist & im sure someone will come into this thread with an “UHM ACKTUAHLLY” but for all intents & purposes it’s essentially non nutritious. like, you don’t have to pasteurize it & you do have to pasteurize manure so there’s clearly something going on there. the grains you spawn with are more than enough nutrition for the mushrooms & bulk is just there to provide water for the myc to fruit with. sterilizing the coir is totally fine, just unnecessary.
ah yeah, the steaming part of the PF tek is to sterilize. you can also use a PC, but if you have a PC you might as well just do agar & grains assuming you have the resources.
you can absolutely steam sterilize grains, it just takes like 8 hours or something ridiculous & very few people have time & patience to babysit a boiling pot of water for 8+ hours. maybe you could get away with less time but i can’t imagine it would be successful with less than like 4 hours. not many people on here steam sterilize grain for that reason so there’s not a ton of info on doing it
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: hazyhorse]
#27774608 - 05/12/22 08:13 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: i mean, maybe it’s slightly nutritious & im sure on some level the myc might consume it, im not a coir scientist & im sure someone will come into this thread with an “UHM ACKTUAHLLY” but for all intents & purposes it’s essentially non nutritious. like, you don’t have to pasteurize it & you do have to pasteurize manure so there’s clearly something going on there. the grains you spawn with are more than enough nutrition for the mushrooms & bulk is just there to provide water for the myc to fruit with. sterilizing the coir is totally fine, just unnecessary.
ah yeah, the steaming part of the PF tek is to sterilize. you can also use a PC, but if you have a PC you might as well just do agar & grains assuming you have the resources.
you can absolutely steam sterilize grains, it just takes like 8 hours or something ridiculous & very few people have time & patience to babysit a boiling pot of water for 8+ hours. maybe you could get away with less time but i can’t imagine it would be successful with less than like 4 hours. not many people on here steam sterilize grain for that reason so there’s not a ton of info on doing it
Oh okay. I have nothing to do tomorrow so I may try to steam some grains. Sadly I don't have agar and stuff. I looked into trying gelatin but found out quickly it's more of just expirementing and not worth it. It turns back to liquid but if it works couldn't you use the liquid after it's colonized to make a syringe? Obviously it would be hard to isolate and so on but maybe transfer it from gelatin to a syringe and then back to a new plate of gelatin if you could get only the best myc from the original plate? Lol. I know that's ridiculously different and difficult but I'm just curious about a lot of things at the moment.
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hazyhorse
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do some searches on here for steam sterilizing grain, there should be SOME info. i know it can be done it’s just usually very impractical vs. using a PC. i think it’s possible to steam sterilize agar too but again, i never found much info on the process vs. pressure cooking it
i don’t know anything about using gelatin for these purposes so i can’t really say anything aside from i don’t think it’ll work too well & if gelatin worked in any form it would probably be a tek of some sort by now. if you wanted to do transfers i think you’d be better off using PF pucks & transferring growth off those. nothing wrong with experimenting tho & if you’ve got time to spare & are curious, go for it! i just don’t see gelatin ending very well.
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ShinyWartortle
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: hazyhorse]
#27774685 - 05/12/22 08:53 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: do some searches on here for steam sterilizing grain, there should be SOME info. i know it can be done it’s just usually very impractical vs. using a PC. i think it’s possible to steam sterilize agar too but again, i never found much info on the process vs. pressure cooking it
i don’t know anything about using gelatin for these purposes so i can’t really say anything aside from i don’t think it’ll work too well & if gelatin worked in any form it would probably be a tek of some sort by now. if you wanted to do transfers i think you’d be better off using PF pucks & transferring growth off those. nothing wrong with experimenting tho & if you’ve got time to spare & are curious, go for it! i just don’t see gelatin ending very well.
Yeah from what I found it doesn't end well but most complaints I saw were just that it liquified and was a mess. So I'm assuming it could still possibly be transferred. I didn't know you could do brf pucks and transfer mycelium that way though. That sounds awesome and I'd like to try it since I can't get agar atm. If I can ever get these pans to fruit I'd really like to try the cloning in a ziplock bag. So many things I want to try/expirement with, so little resources. 😅
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hazyhorse
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if it liquifies i’d imagine any potential contaminates would be mixed in that liquid too. bacteria would probably destroy anything liquid if it got in. again, nothing wrong with trying it out, but the reason agar works so well is because it’s a solid 2d surface to allow us to take transfers away from contaminates that might pop up on the surface, where as a liquid (like LCs) just intermix everything. now that i’m saying it, i feel like gelatin would essentially be like trying to transfer an LC to get it clean, which isn’t really viable. again though, nothing wrong with trying it if you aren’t expecting anything
i think i posted this link already in one of your other threads, but there’s part of this tek you could probably use to better effect than gelatin. agar will give you best results though, when you have the funds amazon or any asian grocery store in your town should have some!
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new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
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BagOfDicks
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: BagOfDicks]
#27774705 - 05/12/22 09:06 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm a little confused now... I missed the brf part. If youre doing PF Tek I wouldn't bother pasteurizing at all. And I don't necessarily think it would be a good idea to pasteurize BRF, but if youre going to give it a shot let us know what happens!
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hazyhorse
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Re: Question about pasteurization. [Re: BagOfDicks]
#27774708 - 05/12/22 09:10 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah, i thought it was weird people seemed to be recommending pasteurizing BRF lol
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i love glass petris & you can too!!
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