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Offlinelongbow72
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Why is liquid culture not prefered??
    #27773813 - 05/12/22 10:46 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Why are liquid cultures so bad?  Everyone on here says agar agar agar, but it seems logically that liquid culture would be much more effective for grain.  Agar will only have one inoculation point.  Liquid culture would have thousands.  So why does everyone hate on liquid culture so much?

Thanks


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: longbow72] * 1
    #27773821 - 05/12/22 10:53 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

LC is great as long as it's 100% clean.  You NEED agar to clean up the culture before you can go to LC or you will just expand any other contams riding along with the spores/transfer.

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OfflineRotnpins
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27773834 - 05/12/22 11:08 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
LC is great as long as it's 100% clean.  You NEED agar to clean up the culture before you can go to LC or you will just expand any other contams riding along with the spores/transfer.





:whathesaid: LCs are excellent, but agar is a necessary step that can't be avoided with shortcuts... if you can't make a clean agar plate, then you can't make a clean LC.. also, if you're not growing in larger quantities,  you can easily get the same job done using agar wedges. g2g also works well if you're trying to grow a larger amount, especially using millet.. inoculate a few pint size millet jars with agar and then use the colonized millet to inoculate a bunch of jars containing your grain of choice..

If you do make a LC, it is also recommended  to test the LC on agar before going to grain.

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: Rotnpins]
    #27774010 - 05/12/22 12:54 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

i agree with the above posts, it’s less that people hate LC here (i would even say most people see it as an excellent way to expand spawn) but more that noobs shooting spores directly into LC are begging for contamination issues. you can get lucky, but more often than not it’s a gamble that’s well in favor of contams. it’s also not super useful if you’re doing smaller scale growing, cool technique but it’s easier to just drop in 4 agar wedges if you’re only making 4 jars of a culture. LC is fast, though.

here’s an excellent write up on LC that should explain a good bit of what you may have questions on


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Offlinefather_fungi
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27774028 - 05/12/22 01:08 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
i agree with the above posts, it’s less that people hate LC here (i would even say most people see it as an excellent way to expand spawn) but more that noobs shooting spores directly into LC are begging for contamination issues




I second this, and I prefer LC.  I'm a small scale gourmet grower and presently only use about 3-4 quarts of spawn a week.

In my experience so far LC is simple, reliable, contamination resistant and extremely fault tolerant once you have once going.

Also, you can ABSOLUTELY skip agar...  Just clone directly to LC Just like you would clone to agar.  Excise a clean piece of tissue from the fruit body and drop it in your LC solution.  I have about an 80% contamination free success rate using this method.

Also, I see absolutely nothing wrong with testing your LC by making spawn with it and growing it out.  If it works and produces satisfying results it's safe to call it good!


--------------------
Agar and Liquid Culture Formulas


Equipment, Teks, Etc
FF Lid Tek

Edited by father_fungi (05/12/22 01:11 PM)

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OfflineAnonuser77
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: longbow72]
    #27774033 - 05/12/22 01:12 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

You can go straight to lc if the syringe is cleanish. Take lc and make more lcs from that until it's clean. It took me 1 transfer to do it that way. There isnt necessarily contamination in EVERY drop of a bad LC. The issue becomes how do you test the LC. And that ends up taking more time than just doing agar(you can generally see the contamination growing on agar). I just tried going straight to LC from spores because I like experimenting. I dont recommend it.

You can get borosilicate preti dishes and reuse them over and over. It winds up being pretty cheap that way.

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: Anonuser77] * 4
    #27774056 - 05/12/22 01:30 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

You really gotta differentiate what we're talking about here.

You got cubensis spores injected into a karo solution or whatever.

You got agar wedges or a piece of tissue put into a similar solution, where the mycelium will multiply to consume that food source.

Those are 2 very different types of liquid culture.

There's also liquid inoculant, blending up a chunk of agar in sterile water and using it to inoculate grain.

All 3 of these achieve the goal of increasing the number of inoculation points. Only the second two offer any opportunity to inspect your culture before gambling on it.

Most of the shade thrown on LC's is reserved for the half-assed version of them, and people gravitating to them just because they're "faster" without having any of the basics down first.

Using tissue from culinary species to make a liquid culture is very different from using cubensis spores to make a liqiid culture. Many common culinary species are far more contamination-resistant, and probably more domesticated in genetic terms (so, not much point in narrowing genetics down on agar). I still wouldn't be happy with a 20% contamination rate, especially if I had no ability to identify and discontinue the contaminated cultures.

I personally have wasted more time dealing with contamination than anything else. Agar to grain followed by grain to grain transfers work fine for me, because it gives me a chance to watch the mycelium leap from one source to the next and identify any issues early. I've got so many jars going in different stages that I'm never really "waiting" for anything to finish colonizing, anyway. So I'm not really looking for faster colonization speeds right now.

I'll probably step up and start messing with LC's at some point, but I'll probably want a compelling reason to first. And maybe a laminar flow hood.

Edited by B Traven (05/12/22 01:40 PM)

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: B Traven]
    #27774116 - 05/12/22 02:00 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, i think in a really broad sense it’s less about what works sometimes vs something working nearly every time. you can shoot spores into an uncle ben’s bag, you can throw spores straight into an LC, you can do shit in open air or with poor technique & still get mushrooms. but i personally was getting really frustrated losing 50%+ of my shit to contams or having tubs perform like shit & only getting a quarter ounce out of them or whatever. you can get away with a lot of stuff in this hobby, but if you want solid consistent results there are reliable & better methods than just shooting spores & gambling. as long as you don’t care about losing 20%-100% on any given run it’s totally fine, but on this site & in general it’s really hard to recommend doing sketchy shit for people who want solid & consistent results. especially when cleaning up a culture on agar is barely any more work than just shooting the spores is, & you’re way more likely to end up with something clean that performs well. the risk vs. reward of gambling spores straight to grains/LC isn’t personally worth it to me & i wouldn’t ever recommend it to someone unless they don’t care about potentially having shit all go south


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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: Anonuser77] * 2
    #27774338 - 05/12/22 04:42 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Anonuser77 said:
You can go straight to lc if the syringe is cleanish. Take lc and make more lcs from that until it's clean. It took me 1 transfer to do it that way. There isnt necessarily contamination in EVERY drop of a bad LC. The issue becomes how do you test the LC. And that ends up taking more time than just doing agar(you can generally see the contamination growing on agar). I just tried going straight to LC from spores because I like experimenting. I dont recommend it.

You can get borosilicate preti dishes and reuse them over and over. It winds up being pretty cheap that way.





wtf is 'cleanish'? It's either clean or it's not, and pouring one dirty LC to another doesn't clean anything. It simply expands whatever contaminants are in your dirty LC


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OfflinePinstagram
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27774514 - 05/12/22 07:19 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:
I use lc and agar. Both serve a purpose. Difference is you can have great succes in mycology without lc, you can't without agar. That is why people push agar! I think it is best to go from agar to lc. I use the josex poke into agar then inject clean myc into lc. I think everybody should give lc a try, but not before developing good sterile technique, cloning, and clean transfers with agar. I personally enjoy watching my plates just like my tubs!

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: Pinstagram]
    #27774531 - 05/12/22 07:32 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

i think a lot of people think LC is just cool (understandably) & also think agar is somehow way more work & want a short cut. i fully agree though, i love watching plates grow out & taking clean transfers. feels good when you get a pretty looking plate


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InvisibleMTZ
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27774609 - 05/12/22 08:14 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I was going to say the same. Only expanding the contamination. Had it all typed out. But dude seems to not pay attention and types up some ass backward stuff. So figured he had it all figured out. So why even bother. I have no idea where these guys get some of this shit from. 🤷♂️ I mean no offense towards him.


--------------------
Rehears your death every morning and night. Only when you constantly live as though already a corpse will you find freedom in the martial way, and fulfill your duties without fault throughout your life. ~ The Book Of Samurai
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Edited by MTZ (05/12/22 08:16 PM)

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OfflineAnonuser77
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: MTZ]
    #27774736 - 05/12/22 09:22 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Wtf are you talking about? I literally did the experiment and it worked. Your pea brain cant comprehend there isnt a bacteria in every drop of lc.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: Anonuser77] * 3
    #27774761 - 05/12/22 09:42 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

cleanish is an absurd term when talking about liquid cultures.

also hes taking a break. calling people pea brain like he just did is quite the facepalm for many reasons.

and LC is amazing you can always spot a noob by what they say about lc.

contamination prone. karo. shoot spores.

those key phrases.. mark of the eternal noob.

Edited by mushboy (05/12/22 09:48 PM)

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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: mushboy]
    #27774789 - 05/12/22 10:05 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:

100% clean is the only way to roll.  99.7% clean gets real expensive if you expand it to 400lbs of grain and half of it fails.  Properly making axenic LC isn't hard and it's super cheap so there's no reason to mess with sub-par LC when so much downstream depends on the health of that culture.

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InvisibleMTZ
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: Anonuser77]
    #27774792 - 05/12/22 10:08 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Kinda funny. I'm not the only one that said something about it. Nice, name calling. Maybe you should listen to people that actually cultivate and have much more experience. Look at my gallery my friend. It's no biggie. But I didn't just put some false stuff out there. My man, some of us do pounds a week. And guess what? Most of mine goes to my compost pile. Why? Because I LOVE this hobby. I do it mostly just because I LOVE every step of the process.  It's takes up all my free time. Even interferes with my actual for profit gourmet thing. Like I said, no offense intended. But what you said is just flat out false. I've done everything imaginable with LC, and read and watched those that have VAST experience. Like I said, was no offense intended. But there's a whole bunch of new people to Mush Cult, and I just want them to start off on the right foot. The more success they have from the get go, the less get discouraged and give up. That's my intention with everyone here. I want to see people succeed in this. The more that do? The closer we are to NOT going to PRISON for simply enjoying cultivating fungi.


--------------------
Rehears your death every morning and night. Only when you constantly live as though already a corpse will you find freedom in the martial way, and fulfill your duties without fault throughout your life. ~ The Book Of Samurai
........
I live in the void. I can go to the in between anytime I desire. I visit the spirt world.

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InvisibleMTZ
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: mushboy]
    #27774796 - 05/12/22 10:12 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Oh damn. I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to cause problems. It's just that his post was 180 degrees off. And I've noticed other posts that's the same wrong info. I just want people to be as successful as possible you know? Again, I'm truly sorry it escalated like that. Anyway. Sorry guys. Didn't mean to derail the thread.


--------------------
Rehears your death every morning and night. Only when you constantly live as though already a corpse will you find freedom in the martial way, and fulfill your duties without fault throughout your life. ~ The Book Of Samurai
........
I live in the void. I can go to the in between anytime I desire. I visit the spirt world.

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: MTZ]
    #27774802 - 05/12/22 10:15 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

to get back on track… we all agree spore to cleanish LC to a bag of uncle ben’s is the tek of the future, right?


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27775172 - 05/13/22 06:50 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
to get back on track… we all agree spore to cleanish LC to a bag of uncle ben’s is the tek of the future, right?




That's right, 2 tablespoons of Karo to 2 cups of water, boil for 5 minutes, pour into a jar, seal, shoot spores, wait a week, then inject into Uncle Ben's bags with a syringe sterilized with bleach.

It's a little contamination-prone, but I'm sick of all these people pushing agar. They act like everyone's got money to buy pre-made plates, and clearly just want to gate-keep. Some of us just want enough to trip, but this technique is also good enough to pump out pounds of dealer-grade shrooms from syringes bought from sponsors.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Why is liquid culture not prefered?? [Re: B Traven] * 3
    #27775229 - 05/13/22 07:39 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, i may only have 10 inch rims on my car and not 20's but............. i keep em cleanish


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