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OfflineFierce Deity
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Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis.
    #27773009 - 05/12/22 03:47 AM (4 months, 12 days ago)

So, I've got some good looking Pereskiopsis grafts to different Trichocereus types.  The grafts are getting top heavy and starting to feel kind of like they want to fall over.  I had one get so fat that it snapped the pereskiopsis.

I've already cut one of them off of its Pereskiopsis rootstock and noticed an increased density of vascular fibers in a non-circular pattern about 1cm up from the graft union.  Should I cut higher than that or is it okay to root it as it is?  I've seen people on youtube scoop out the bottom of the scion because they say that "some of the rootstock is up in there".  To me, the rootstock was easily 1cm below that.  I also wouldn't think the rootstock actually grows once the graft takes since its has no meristem that it's feeding outside of the meristem of the scion.  Anyone have experience-based opinions to share about this? 

I don't want my scions to start rotting for no reason because of a rotting piece of root stock remains in the bottom of it.  But I'd also like to minimize the diameter of open tissue on the bottom by cutting on the lower portion of the scion where it's narrower.  I want to cut as close as possible to the Pereskiopsis as safely as possible for the longevity of the scion after it's rooted.

Thanks for your input.


--------------------

Ah, the mystery.
When sight and seen are complete,
who looks through these eyes?

All words are lies.
This statement, too, is false.



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OfflineDancingWolf
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: Fierce Deity] * 1
    #27776153 - 05/14/22 06:36 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

I like to cut around 1" up if possible. Take care of grafts and they will produce clones year after year. These two are around 3-4 years old.



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Invisibleellomello
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: DancingWolf]
    #27777388 - 05/15/22 06:14 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

..sorry i had dificulty following what your writing about exactly,
but i agree 1"inch cutting, above the graft, sounds about right.

...don't cut graft off completely, as long as there are some 'areoles' left, new pups will grow,
but even if you did cut the top graft off, the rootstock wouldn't die, it would just start growing.

..definately don't scoop anything out, i think that would probably kill the thing, having a cavity.


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OfflineFierce Deity
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: DancingWolf]
    #27778384 - 05/15/22 10:54 PM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

DancingWolf said:
I like to cut around 1" up if possible. Take care of grafts and they will produce clones year after year. These two are around 3-4 years old.






Excellent idea!  I've actually done this with a T. macrogonus grafted to hylocereus about 3 weeks ago, and it's already got a pup forming!  That's actually a great suggestion!  I'll try that if it's at all possible!


--------------------

Ah, the mystery.
When sight and seen are complete,
who looks through these eyes?

All words are lies.
This statement, too, is false.



Edited by Fierce Deity (05/15/22 10:56 PM)


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OfflineFierce Deity
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: ellomello]
    #27778388 - 05/15/22 10:54 PM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

ellomello said:
..sorry i had dificulty following what your writing about exactly,
but i agree 1"inch cutting, above the graft, sounds about right.

...don't cut graft off completely, as long as there are some 'areoles' left, new pups will grow,
but even if you did cut the top graft off, the rootstock wouldn't die, it would just start growing.

..definately don't scoop anything out, i think that would probably kill the thing, having a cavity.




I thought the same thing.  Scooping would cause a cavity.  Thanks for your opinion.


--------------------

Ah, the mystery.
When sight and seen are complete,
who looks through these eyes?

All words are lies.
This statement, too, is false.



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OfflineDancingWolf
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: Fierce Deity]
    #27778569 - 05/16/22 12:20 AM (4 months, 8 days ago)

Cutting the stock out of the scion is a viable method but not ideal for Trichocereus. I use a #11 scalpel to cut a cone out of domino cactus that don't make a clean break from the stock. I do it by inserting the scalpel at an angle 4-5 times to the same point inside the cactus, essentially like a cone. Do it right and the cuts are clean, the core pops out, then it's a matter of dusting with sulfur and letting it heal like a cutting. This is also the same method for impalement grafting, and yes, it will make a cavity under the plant that might remain humid, attract bugs, etc.

Ensure your hand is not in the pathway of the scalpel, lest it go through the plant and into your hand. Don't pry with the scalpel as the blades are thin and brittle. Welding gloves are a plus since you can keep a grip on the cactus and there is some protection if you slip while pointing the scalpel in the wrong direction.

My apologies for being hard to follow in my previous post. For Trichocereus, flat cuts are the best method of de-grafting IMHO. Simply having areoles on the scion isn't enough, they need to have sufficient vascular tissue feeding them or the remainder of the scion will shrivel up on the Pereskiopsis. Hard to get more pups from a dead scion. Cutting the whole scion off with some Pereskiopsis will tell the Pereskiopsis grow again. I like to keep stocks that perform well and re-pot them for cuttings. If you ever lose the label to the de-grafted scion, having the original source plant is great for getting a new clone; best to write the name on the plant along with a label.


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OfflineFierce Deity
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: DancingWolf]
    #27780633 - 05/17/22 03:15 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

DancingWolf said:
Cutting the stock out of the scion is a viable method but not ideal for Trichocereus. I use a #11 scalpel to cut a cone out of domino cactus that don't make a clean break from the stock. I do it by inserting the scalpel at an angle 4-5 times to the same point inside the cactus, essentially like a cone. Do it right and the cuts are clean, the core pops out, then it's a matter of dusting with sulfur and letting it heal like a cutting. This is also the same method for impalement grafting, and yes, it will make a cavity under the plant that might remain humid, attract bugs, etc.

Ensure your hand is not in the pathway of the scalpel, lest it go through the plant and into your hand. Don't pry with the scalpel as the blades are thin and brittle. Welding gloves are a plus since you can keep a grip on the cactus and there is some protection if you slip while pointing the scalpel in the wrong direction.

My apologies for being hard to follow in my previous post. For Trichocereus, flat cuts are the best method of de-grafting IMHO. Simply having areoles on the scion isn't enough, they need to have sufficient vascular tissue feeding them or the remainder of the scion will shrivel up on the Pereskiopsis. Hard to get more pups from a dead scion. Cutting the whole scion off with some Pereskiopsis will tell the Pereskiopsis grow again. I like to keep stocks that perform well and re-pot them for cuttings. If you ever lose the label to the de-grafted scion, having the original source plant is great for getting a new clone; best to write the name on the plant along with a label.




Thanks so much for the tips, Dancingwolf!

Oh man.  One time, I was having a hard time getting a scalpel blade onto the handle (using my bare hands) using too much force and it shattered.  I was sooo shocked and freaked out at the same time.  I was immediately saying how stupid I was and looking around on my fingers for cuts.

Fortunately I got only one decent cut on my finger.  I felt like I could have lost a chunk of flesh with that much force I was appying with just my fingers.  I'll never do that again, and that is good advice to use thick gloves for anyone else messing with a scalpel.


--------------------

Ah, the mystery.
When sight and seen are complete,
who looks through these eyes?

All words are lies.
This statement, too, is false.



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OfflineDancingWolf
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Re: Question: Degrafting cacti (trichocereus) from Pereskiopsis. [Re: Fierce Deity]
    #27786810 - 05/21/22 09:02 PM (4 months, 3 days ago)

I load and unload scalpels all the time with my bare fingers, although I grip the back of the blade and make sure it's lined up with the handle. Sometimes I'll attach it while it's still inside the sterile packaging. No forcing is required, blades only go on one way.

Needle nose pliers and safety glasses are also an option.


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