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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27772062 - 05/10/22 11:26 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

No joke i was JUST about to make a thread about silver. Going to read the article here in a sec, but first my take:


It's vastly UNDER PRICED and being manipulated so very hard right now to keep it falsely low. 


And the crazy thing is- let me make this as a time stamp as of today 5/1/2022 -----the premiums on silver put the "real" price at around $30/oz.

You can not buy silver anywhere for $22 lol, yet it's "trading" on paper at that price.

Ok, off to read the article


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27772066 - 05/10/22 11:34 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Ok so basically I think it might be a better idea to have some silver on paper as well as physical, since the premiums are so damn high right now. This is not investment advice but it's probably a good time to buy while it's low. Was just looking at AG and SLV and they are at a nice dip... maybe a discount buy?


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27772835 - 05/11/22 04:08 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Oh wow... great story! Totally good thinking. But personally I'd keep more than just a kilo just in case silver price does explode, which it must eventually, right?



Quote:

I'm so disgusted by how they rape the price of silver with their fake paper silver scam, 100 more than there is real silver, that that bar sits aside purely to fling into the machine, the few hundred bucks of profit are insignificant.




yes especially when it's been proven and won in actual lawsuits that JP Morgan and others were manipulating the price of silver.



By throw the silver bar, you mean sell it into the market to add to the mayhem, not actually throw it, right?:smilingpuppy:


the use of the :riot: greamlin threw me off lol.


Yeah I don't know. I feel like silver will eventually hit $50 but they've been saying that for years...

I actually picked up 10 individual ounces today for $3.65 over spot, bringing it to about $25 per ounce. A decent invest I think... which is great considering all dealers are selling eagles at $10+ over spot, which is insane.




about 2 months ago I stopped by the coin shop, and they were BUYING generic silver rounds for $3 OVER spot. I was shocked. so I sold them 10 ounces for $28/oz.... And today I bought them back for less.

SO in essence my purchase today is another investment and speculation but the silver situation is just absolutely fucked and when the whole thing blows wide open, all that gold you have, and even silver, will become much more valuable( is my prediction)


BTW - random thought, but my Moissanite came in last week and that stuff is absolutely stunning and brilliant so thanks for the help there, we'll have to revive that thread sometime :smile:


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27772993 - 05/11/22 06:29 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Oh my goodness you aren't joking about the rainbow magic within the Moissanite


Omg I can't imagine a 1 inch or even 2! what a gem that would be. I suspect it will be a reality soon when the price comes down



I just don't know how long this silver injustice can go on... could be for as long as I live though, which would not be cool because I have invested some in it. But hey... I really can't see it ever going bust unless they learn how to make silver on a mass scale in a Laboratory.

Cryptos and stocks have a much higher change of going bust to zero so I think gold and silver to an extent is a good investment!


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax] * 1
    #27777389 - 05/14/22 09:15 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
I'm watching Silver futures heavily the passed year. Right now Silver is around $21.13. It had a marginal break of the support and should have dropped to $17-18 an ounce but it hasn't. It's still holding but my point is the lowest support next is that level ~$17.50. Every time in the past 40 years in a strong price decline the commercial guys always wind up the NET BUYERS and the non-commercial land as the NET SELLERS. Meaning everyone is selling straight into the pockets of the commercial hedges. I found the concentrated long positions were around $12-18 an ounce. I doubt we see prices lower less than $15. They are selling silver like it's not in a shortage. Literally everything is in a shortage right now. Silver has the industrial edge and the precious metal backing. It's been used as coinage since the dawn of time. This is one of the greatest buying opportunities in a lifetime. These guys are so over short right now. This has been going on forever and JP Morgan apparently is the dealer behind the cards. They go short, use price spoofing to manipulate the price down. Then buy it up and go long. This aside there's no getting around supply and demand mixed with geopolitical instability. The dam will break on silver. I'm not saying 300$ but I'm saying this thing isn't priced right.




Wow thanks for posting that!


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27777390 - 05/14/22 09:15 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ManianFH said:
It could go on for the entirety of our lives. It could end tomorrow. I’d bet not squarely on, but chips all around the former.

I dunno, my 2c of a guy who has 200+ oz and would have loved to put it into just about any other investment vehicle. But now I, like others here am SPITE holding!!!





Dang what a disaster, and I understand now why Asante would wanna ditch the silver for the gold..

But I am HOLDING OUT!


Another reason is that I cant really afford to drop $2000 on a gold ounce, and to buy a 1/10 ounce coin or one gram bar, I have to pay like 20-25% over spot price premium. That is a terrible amount over actual cost. A one ounce coin might only have a 5% premium over spot, which is acceptable.. but the price tag....



SO that is why silver is the poor mans gold.. Because I might have an extra $200 here or $100 there and I want to invest in something a little more solid than Crypto or stocks, so I'll pick up a few ounces here and there.


I get it.. I may NEVER see a good return on my silver, however, I really don't see there being any possibility of silver EVER going down farther than like $15.. I guess it could happen but that's entirely unlikely.


Especially when the fact that there is going to be major shortages of it in the future do to technology and solar, I don't think I could loose all my money in physical silver... but once again.. could be wrong.








Quote:

Asante said:
Thats what upsets me.

They have made silver about BS and now BS dictates the whole markets. People are perfectly fine with paper silver, and its become just another paper product to have a party with - at the expense of the actual metal.

I think they can BS on for a very long time. When I realized just how great the circus around silver is -that isnt silver- and that the majority have their interest in that paper silver with no link to the mining refining, scacity, appolication, recycling, holding the actual metal -- I wanted out of silver.






I get your reasoning... I do... but given what just happened to LUNA, the world sees now that the financial systems are flawed and that there are more rich and powerful people than JP Morgan out there, and when the beast comes down, my opinion is there will be a SEPARATION of the price between silver on paper and actual physical possession of silver.


Think about it.. when the whole world gets behind the fact that the paper market is overinflated stock, and basically a farse, we could see the price of paper silver go to zero, and the price of physical silver go to the moon.


How could that happen? Well, there would be a whole other market that would devolop OUTSIDE of paper silver.

When that first big paper silver billionaire pulled their money out, and put it only into physical, it would be a MAD DASH to own physical, except that the bullion dealers would NOT SELL SILVER at the paper price. They would set their OWN PRICE - and there would be something maybe like a "physical stock exchange" for silver .... and leave the paper market in the dust.

Now I know that sounds maybe farfetched, but in todays world... I can see that happening... it's just going to take enough people getting mad at the current system for them to pull it crashing down and make their own new system.

I mean just look at Crypto. Imagine silver and even Gold and other metals band together and start their own market, outside the hands of the corrupt and greedy paper market!

could that be Possible? I think I might live to see that in this lifetime.. you too!


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27778524 - 05/15/22 03:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:


The infuriating thing is that silver is divinely ordained money





Yeah last night was either a full or almost full moon and as I walked outside and looked up it was big and bright and I could feel the sun on the other side of the world and the moon energy too it was super powerful and I thought about how that silvery light of the moon reminded me of the divine power of silver.



I'm not giving up on silver yet. That little scenario I painted in the post above about the price of silver SEPARATING into a REAL market, where the paper one crashes and burns.

Imagine if paper silver went boom. People got fed up and pulled out.  and a NEW market emerged. An ACTUAL market. One that actually only traded silver on what was in the vault or in their hands.


You see I honestly think that we might be VERY near to that happening, and right now, the big dogs are just trying to get their hands on AS MUCH physical silver as possible before the paper silver goes up in flames.

I think this is a real possibility in the (near) future. 



You may have lost hope, but I'm holding on. Also, just in case, I've diversified :smile::sun:


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27778766 - 05/15/22 04:46 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:


paper silver is silver, and they dont want their investment to burn. People are so used to the lie, they are comfortab;le with it - and silver being the metal of the lie..








There ALREADY is and has been a separation between the physical price and paper price though...

Silver is trading at $27-$30ish an ounce in the "real world" for coins like American Eagles and other Government... Even though the spot price is $21.. Generic ounces are trading a SIX $6 over! for a generic round!


Call around to any coin dealer, check online to any bullion dealer, The REAL price of silver is reflected in the premiums... Try to buy silver for spot price and they will laugh at you.

a big push, unlike anything I've seen in my life is happening. For the last 15 or so years I've been aware of silver premiums... and they've been one.. maybe two dollars over spot. Now $10 in some cases?

:mindblown:


NEVER before in history have the "premiums" been so high.  Think about it.....A separation from paper has begun!!!!  It's only a matter of time until people catch on and Silver seperates COMPLETELY and we see paper silver go up in flames.


I feel it's coming soon. within the next 5 years , maybe 10.. I don't know. But because of the reality of supply and Demand, WE ARE CLOSE.


What that means is it's gonna hit a breaking point where paper silver actually means NOTHING!


And big money will start to pull their money OUT of paper, and try to secure as much physical as possible .. And at THAT POINT , it's game over for paper silver. Paper silver will go to ZERO because it's NOT REAL!!!!


The paper price might drop to $5 an ounce, but NO ONE will actually be selling silver for that. Think about it, it might be closer than I think.




That is happening right now!!!!!!


Can anyone else see or support this claim of mine?


I'd grab some physical while you can, just incase I'm right.


Edited by Fiery (05/15/22 04:54 PM)


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27778871 - 05/15/22 05:40 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
I hate to rain on your parade, but the premiums on silver are another form of fraud, they are the coin dealers asking highly indecent markups when they sell, even if they sell second hand silver.

But, if you sell, ZERO premium, and if theres a fingerprint on the coin  they may use it as an excuse to pay you under spot - then turn right around and sell the same coin at the unacceptAbly high premium.

That too is fucked swindle.

I'm positive there will be great waves in the silver price, but at that point ALL SHOPS STOP BUYING until the price is lower again.

Silver's the Devil Metal, and it shows in every part of the transaction, every part that can be screwed with and twisted up wrong, has been.








I agree about those bad business practices you just mentioned

but...

Let me ask you a question... Have you bought silver physically like going to a coin shop or talking to dealers recently that you have a good relationship with?


This is Inside information Asante!

I know this guy from a coin shop for 15 years( the owner). Been buying a few ounces here and there, not much but checking the market often... I'm no big fish but he treats me fair, he doesn't do the swindling you mentioned.

Even with a good relationship, I happily have been paying more than spot price for silver for YEARS! And been ok with it. It's how the dealers stay in business. But I'm telling you, the spot price for the last 15 years has almost NEVER changed from just one or two dollars over spot for such a long time UNTIL NOW!


The dealers could CARE LESS about what paper silver says. They are going based off the SUPPLIERS- aka the miners and refiners.


I'm telling you Asante from the "front lines" , there's about to be a rude awakening in the paper silver world.

And nothing wallstreet says or does is going to stop the "real" price of silver from actually shining. like it ALREADY is now( jsut the the tip of the iceberg!)

It's not fraud what is going on right now with insane premiums, it's the REAL market! And finally dealers, and miners, and refiners are saying NO to the paper market, and making their own market.

Think on that for real though... coming from the "front lines" of a tiny fish silver stacker who keeps track of prices and premiums for the last 15 years doing both buying and selling.

Edit- ALSO! This shop and others NEVER stopped buying, even when recently silver spiked to like $50 a few years ago.. he was still selling AND buying, as were other dealers... I asked him how he makes money buying silver so high, and he says with the premium margins. So no matter the price, he can still buy and sell for a profit.


THE GREAT SEPARATION FROM PAPER PRICE HAS BEGUN!


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27779499 - 05/15/22 10:18 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
I don't recommend buying silver or investing in it to try to flip spot price. There's a million ways to invest in something through derivatives but for physical the idea is to own it forever. That's the point of it storing value better than a bank account because you can't easily turn it into cash on the spot. The value is almost locked in for you. I also like collectible coins and the silver is a plus. I have a pretty cool coin collection and I don't even bother to know the weight because I wouldn't sell it based on it's precious metal content but collector value.

Paper silver or silver ETF's are the reason why silver is highly manipulated because as said the real price never reflects reality. That also has a flip side however and it means that not being able to deliver on the paper side makes the physical side rocket. It's a scale that's been tipped one way for too long.





Yeah man, that's how I feel. And also what I mean by premiums being higher and for longer than ever I can remember in history. It is signaling that  when the paper side can't deliver the goods( which the bullion dealers already know, the miners and refiners also know this too) then it's game over. It's pretty clear that there's a line in the sand that's been being drawn for a while now between the people who revolve around physical and paper.


That would ALSO explain why paper silver has gone DOWN in price, because I Think maybe some of the paper silver holders are seeing this and "cashing out" thus driving the price down.

Honestly, it would be good for the breakaway for the paper price of silver to keep going down, because the premiums for physical silver would keep going up, and them boom- a massive break and selloff of physical paper when people even big money corporations realize the game is over.

At that point a whole new market emerges. 

Does anyone thing it's crazy to see that happening in the next 5 years ? Heck? the next year?

I mean it's already happening right now , the very beginning.


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27779525 - 05/15/22 10:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Wait a sec, help me out if you can.


Quote:

The only explanation for physical silver to be going down would be the dynamics of the paper silver traded on the futures market (COMEX).






SO right here you're talking about paper silver actually being used to move physical silver, correct?

And if so, which way would the physical silver be moving.  be moving? I'm assuming out.




Quote:


The price of silver dropping is a signal that large hedge funds are buying MORE now than ever.





Do you mean more physical or more paper?





EDIT:
Quote:

(COMEX).





Does Comex mean the actual possession of the physical metal right? meaning they have it somewhere? SO in otherwords for physical silver to go down, wouldn't paper silver have to be SELLING physical silver into comex?






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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27779533 - 05/15/22 10:42 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

If you have the time to break it down in laymans terms I"d be much appreciated.


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27779646 - 05/16/22 12:10 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Wow.. thank you so much for taking the time to explain that to me( and I'm sure others who read this)

So I guess my theory of a complete breakdown of paper silver would happen only if the COMEX could not deliver the physical metal?


Is it true that there is 100x more silver " on paper" than COMEX actually has or could ever have?



I'm just trying to justify buying more silver right now(physical), because I Really do feel like this whole charade is going to explode and the comex will stop delivering physical and a new system will arise. Because there's no way a system like this could stand if everyone decided to take delivery of the item ...



thanks again for helping me learn


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27780045 - 05/16/22 10:04 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

China realizes money is worthless and warehouse parks full of industrial raw materials such as rare earth oxides are the real wealth.






Meanwhile, America is sending hundreds of billions of dollars to foreign nations to fight a proxy war while it's own nation crumbles and other nations are stealing our resources from right out under our feet.

Btw Asante, have you ever been to America? Just curious if you've been in the Netherlands your whole life? I know I used to know this and we've had this conversation before but it was sooo long ago I forget.




On another note:

I did some very hard landscaping garden work on my day off and secured $250 cash so I'm planning to go to the coin shop later and pick up 10 ounces of physical silver.



I know you're upset at silver, and RIGHTFULLY SO... but on the off chance it does go "to the moon" I think it would be a smart investment to have at least a little bit.. I know you said you had a kilo bar, which is pretty cool. that's about 32 ounces I think...


It's just a matter of time until the COMEX can't keep up with CHinas robbery, and contracts will come to be called and then BOOM- silver to the moon. Nothing the manipulators can do about that.


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27780191 - 05/16/22 12:12 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

LOL yeah.. ... Me at a gun shop: "let me please have a military grade .223 assault rifle, with 10 extra 30 round magazines...

Oh yes , it's for hunting, what if I miss :picard:





On the subject: personally I still think silver is divine so I'm holding some :smile: The rest of the demon lovers can play their little game all they want.

So I ended up picking up two grams of GOLD( they almost never have grams of gold) for around 7% over spot, which is unheard of because it's usually 25% on tiny amounts! He hooked me up today. Yay!


Also picked up some of Americas currency pre 1965 that was made out of 90% silver... really neat coins .. And also 3 of these coins called Morgan SIlver Dollars. I got 3 of those for $32 each. The silver value is only around $17 but they are all PRE -1900... which is insane to get a coin that old at that price.


I've got to build my cash back up so that's all the buying I had room for right now :smile: But I feel good about it, even the silver.


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27780761 - 05/16/22 07:53 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Just watch out.. Fake silver bars, 10 for the price of one.

Nothing is safe anymore, not even the Sunshine Mint.









they have a special seal you can inspect. can't be faked as far as I know. But no way to check that online!~

Quote:

For the last few years, Sunshine Mint has included a anti-counterfeit seal to the back of their silver bullion rounds and bars that displays a "VALID" symbol when viewed through a special decoder card. Sunshine seems to be the only mint doing this.





Personally I would NEVER buy gold or silver off ebay or any other online retailer. I need to see it in person.


Also any real silver hound knows that silver is slightly magnetic and any one smart will take a neodymium magnet with them to test where you let it slide down the bar or the round. 


Also, I only buy silver from either one of two guys that own shops and I've known them for years.



Lots of people got dupped on fake gold too, recently. The fakes coming out of China are CRAZY GOOD



One of my hobbies is collecting minerals and rocks and CHina has been selling fake stuff in that category HARD for the last year.. makes me angry to see so many people getting ripped off but with precious metals it's so much worse :frown:


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax]
    #27783551 - 05/18/22 08:59 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I'm in my mid 30's and I think I will most def. see the end of silver manipulation in my life if I live long enough lol.

I mean I honestly think it could happen within the next 5 years easy


ESPECAILLY with the fuel shortages and prices, imagine what mines need to run? FUEL! And with covid - production has been way down.


So basically it's gonna take some time for everything to come full circle, but industry needs is going to outweigh the supply, and the manipulators can't stop the price going up at that point, right?


What is your thought Gorlax or anyone on the 90% American "junk " silver. Seems to have better premiums sometimes but lower resell. But it is neat. I personally have a mix of 90% and 100%


ALso, silver is silver. I understand numismatic value of things like eagles etc... but a generic silver 1oz round is just as silver as the eagle :smile:


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27784781 - 05/19/22 06:58 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If you're in silver then junk silver is king, you get the most grams for the dollar, AND it comes in convenient small bartering units.





Very true, except for American "Junk" silver is 90% silver and 10% copper. It can be costly to separate out/refine the pure silver.

However, it's still super popular for people to collect. I like the diversity too. America has some cool junk silver like walking livery half dollars, and mercury dimes, two of my favorite junk silvers that up until recently you could buy at junk silver prices... now both those carry a premium .


I do like the fact also that it's highly unlikely/near impossible for there to be "fake" junk silver unless it's like morgan or peace dollars, so you're almost sure to be safe with silver quarters and dimes. AND I like the small denomination thing too.


That's my main problem with gold is that it's so expensive for an ounce! I managed to buy a gram of gold the other day for $10 over spot. So basically I paid about $68 for just one gram of gold! But it's a neat little tiny "bar" .. Any time I can get grams I'll usually get them, even though I am paying a high premium, it's really the only way I can afford gold..


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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Asante]
    #27785357 - 05/20/22 07:50 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Oh yes! I know about Nitric Acid. But it's extremely dangerous- and the thing is, the cost of the nitric acid itself would far outweigh the value of the silver recovered.

I do a bit of gold mining here where I live and I have some concentrates that I would LOVE to use mercury or nitric acid on, but the cost/dangers just don't justify it, even in my case, for gold!




Recently, I melted down some of my gold dust that I panned out by hand  into a little button using a potato as a crucible and borax as the flux :smile:

The problem is there's tons of "micro gold" that I can't recover without chemicals. Oh well!


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Re: Silver - the most concentrated short of any commodity [Re: Gorlax] * 1
    #27786126 - 05/20/22 07:11 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Yeah for sure.

Let me know if you start mining, I am actually decently experienced. Will offer any help


I know about

Hard rock mining,
panning
sluicing
"sniping"
rock hounding
metal detecting
classification.
dredging
Refining techniques
"clean ups"

etc.


Tons of stuff I was basically a gold miner as a main hobby for a total of around 5 years. Found enough to melt down into nice button that I hammered out into a gold coin... that I dug from earth itself! little over a half ounce on the coin...

Also have a little vial of gold dust/flakes too. 







Totally seperate topic, but:
I also stock pile the "gold fingers" off of ram cards and video cards and such and know how to somewhat easily extract and "e scrap" gold as well!


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