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Invisibledownforpot
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Every1 can torture
    #2776087 - 06/08/04 11:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

My AP Psyc went over this right when the Iraqi prisoner abuse shit blew up.

http://www.prisonexp.org/


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2776387 - 06/09/04 12:53 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The social psychology experiment which I find to be most damning to human nature is the famous milgram experiment:

http://www3.niu.edu/acad/psych/Millis/History/2003/stanley_milgram.htm


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2777130 - 06/09/04 07:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

not every1 does tho


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: CJay]
    #2777603 - 06/09/04 12:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

no, just 65%


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2777704 - 06/09/04 01:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

exactly


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: CJay]
    #2777758 - 06/09/04 01:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Where did you get the 65%?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2777856 - 06/09/04 02:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

read the link I posted


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2778435 - 06/09/04 05:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Of the 65% a certain small percent are probably naturally sadistic. The rest are simply not possessing the magnitude of will to overcome that of the instructor, even when they are conscious of the effects of their actions. In other words they are sheep. From thge way their reactions are described you can see they are not naturally malicious people, they are just severly conditioned to not question authority.

It makes me wonder, if it were possible to have carried out an equatable experiment with equally normal people, say 300 years ago. Would it have been say only 10% refusing? (wild figures).
And if carried out with people from very different cultures...?

Anyway, the other 35% hold the key
They are of the type which can overcome the mental fields of those above them. Those with great will. Those who are conscious enough to relate to the subject to an irrisistable degree; and so forth.

They give some hope and with luck, and given a bit of time, they will somehow infect more people with their inability to blindly follow orders. Increasing the trend within the group consciousness.

Obviously in a military lifestyle situation that is never going to happen, and that is why war will always be war, no matter which nation's military we inspect. Some of the integral elements of war being rape, plunder and torture.

In a military lifestyle situation I'd say the number of shockers would be much higher still.

And in general when you see how easily people are bent to the wills of the powerful and the charasmatic, you can see how easily politicians make their posionous way.


Edited by CJay (06/10/04 02:40 PM)


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2778681 - 06/09/04 07:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The link you posted is about authority. The prison guards were never told to be extremely cruel. It was all roleplaying at the start but eventually it became more cruel.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2779875 - 06/10/04 02:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The prison guards were never told to be extremely cruel

I don't believe for a second that kind of torture goes on without explicit authorisation from above. They have neither the wit, nor the bravery to risk their entire careers by doing it alone.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Xlea321]
    #2780171 - 06/10/04 05:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Just look at the whole experiment on the site I posted. Authority does influence people's actions but both of these things could be going on in the prisons.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2780909 - 06/10/04 11:30 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So Lyndie just woke up one morning and said "I know, I'll heap a load of naked Iraqis in a pile and take a photo of them?". Just for the hell of it?

And all the other cases of torture throughout the entire American prison system from Afghanistan to Gitmo Bay were just people waking up one morning saying "I feel like sexually torturing someone today, who'se in?"?


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Xlea321]
    #2781216 - 06/10/04 01:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely' - George Orwell


That to me being the power of the 'blade'.

The power of the 'chalice' being a different matter.

While I think Orwell is essentially correct, I also believe there is a certain level of consciousness that once achieved, negates his statement. It's just most people are far from that level......

With regard to the current melee, it seems that if the president is above torture laws, then like Alex says, it's coming from the top down.....


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Xlea321]
    #2781238 - 06/10/04 01:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Alex, just read the whole prison experiment. It's basicly the same thing as the Iraq shit except no1 gets killed.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2781299 - 06/10/04 01:28 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nah, the Iraq shit was systematic orders from above to sexually humiliate muslims. We're not talking casual brutality.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Xlea321]
    #2783813 - 06/11/04 05:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Is that your assumption? backed by anything?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: downforpot]
    #2784428 - 06/11/04 12:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So where in the prison experiment do they put womens panties over the prisoners heads, make them lie naked on each other, simulate sex with each other then take photographs of it?


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Xlea321]
    #2784436 - 06/11/04 12:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That's another part of the university experience, it's known as 'fraternity hazing.'


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Evolving]
    #2784521 - 06/11/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

> it's known as 'fraternity hazing.'

Which is illegal.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Every1 can torture [Re: Xlea321]
    #2784954 - 06/11/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Did I say they were the same kind of torture? The guards were under different conditions. The guards in the experiment used different methods such as turning prisoners against eachother, putting a bucket into their cell for 2 weeks to piss and shit in, sticking them in solitary, making them use numbers instead of their names, tons of other shit.

The guards in Iraq were in a completely different situation and resorted to more extreme levels of torture and HUMILIATION.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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