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psychedemus
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Psilomethoxin is Real 4
#27758637 - 05/01/22 11:53 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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friend put 5-meo-dmt salt in to water for substrate of second flush. I took mushrooms for 5 days straight sharing with 3 other people doing same during same time. no psilocybin effect. basically oral 5-meo-dmt with longer than psilocbyin half life. Since then have taken over 50 times and shared with hundreds of people.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614674/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17262409/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine
Edited by psychedemus (08/17/22 06:52 AM)
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LuzHC
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You mean he put it in the water used for rehydration? Why not hydrate the grains and bulk with it instead?
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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Isn't 5-meo-dmt orally active?
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Mr.Giggles
Time bandit



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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: nooneman] 1
#27759448 - 05/02/22 12:26 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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I've been wondering if it's possible to make 4-HO-mitragagynine by adding kratom to substrate.
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Sofaking420



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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Mr.Giggles] 1
#27760950 - 05/03/22 05:46 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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DERRAYLD
Constructus

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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: nooneman] 1
#27761164 - 05/03/22 09:38 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Isn't 5-meo-dmt orally active?
This is what I'm trying to understand here, the mushrooms actively absorbed the 5-meo-dmt and replaced the psilocybin?
Sorry but the posted excerpts don't really give sufficient info, well for my understanding.
What is being gained here other than the altered content of the mushroom? Are you looking to use the Baeocystin as an maoi?
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Sofaking420



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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: DERRAYLD] 1
#27761460 - 05/03/22 01:26 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Read the wiki link, might help
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Mr.Giggles
Time bandit



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Can you write a trip report for science? It sounds really interesting.
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DERRAYLD
Constructus

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Quote:
Sofaking420 said: Read the wiki link, might help
Yeh, should have done that before. Makes sense
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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5-meo-dmt is orally active. If you add it to mushrooms, I expect you'd just end up with mushrooms containing 5-meo-dmt.
There's no scientific paper that has been published which proves that mushrooms will convert it to psilomethoxin. You can't tell whether or not this has taken place simply by eating the resulting mushrooms. You'd have to have a reference sample of pure psilomethoxin, and then compare the resulting chemicals extracted from the mushrooms with the reference sample using stuff like mass spectrometry and so on. Then you'd have to publish your results in a peer reviewed journal. To my knowledge, that hasn't been done.
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FungiPapi
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: nooneman] 1
#27764194 - 05/05/22 10:21 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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The article on wiki (obviously not the best source) says:
Quote:
However, Alexander Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus. This method was finally tested and proven with 5-MeO-DMT by members of the Church of Psilomethoxin in 2021, and had previously been used successfully for changing DET into 4-HO-DET and 4-PO-DET, both of which had never before been found in nature.
It links to this article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614674/
I can't find how the Church "Proved" it though.
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MariaTruthSeeker
TruthSeeker


Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 18
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: FungiPapi] 1
#28256150 - 03/31/23 12:46 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
FungiPapi said: I can't find how the Church "Proved" it though.
Turns out you were probably right to be skeptical.
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NotSheekle
OTD FOREVER



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I will accept that as 97% fact until the person identifies themselves and the lab and it will be 99.999% because they could have just swapped the sample. A lot of people seem to want this “church” to be wrong so there is some incentive for making a false investigation but I agree with most of the falseflags. The only one I hadn’t heard was same dosage range, I had heard the dosage was under a gram but I could be wrong.
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myc_ousin_vinny
Keeping_It_Real



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Posts: 1,415
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: NotSheekle]
#28256507 - 03/31/23 04:27 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
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1st Post on the Shroomery about dubious cult/church claims. You came here specifically to tell us about this?
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NotSheekle
OTD FOREVER



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My bad
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myc_ousin_vinny
Keeping_It_Real



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Posts: 1,415
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: NotSheekle]
#28256621 - 03/31/23 05:47 PM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
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I can’t find it right now but there was a long ass thread about the church. I went down the rabbit hole reading about them. I’m not saying it’s not real but I think the church charges something like $300 an ounce for it? I need to find that thread.
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myc_ousin_vinny
Keeping_It_Real



Registered: 04/29/20
Posts: 1,415
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Never mind…. my bad.
It was “ Temple of the True Inner Light”.
Totally different group.
I’ll back out now lol.
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MariaTruthSeeker
TruthSeeker


Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 18
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Ouchie guess it wasn't real after all, but it was fun while it lasted: Fungi Fiction Their response to this testing is hilarious! Like they are living in an alternate reality where they can wish things into existence through the power of thought alone. I'm sure the judge will buy that
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iateshaggy
i haxor 360s



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Post deleted by iateshaggy
Reason for deletion: Privacy
-------------------- You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.
I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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Eclipse3130
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: iateshaggy]
#28283593 - 04/18/23 11:19 AM (9 months, 5 days ago) |
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-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


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Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Knew it. Thanks for sharing Maria
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Quote:
Cytochrome P450 (CYP) is a hemeprotein that plays a key role in the metabolism of drugs and other xenobiotics. It has more than 50 enzymes, six of which metabolize up to 90 percent of drugs. Genetic variability (polymorphism) in CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 may influence a patient's response to commonly prescribed drug classes, including beta blockers and antidepressants. In mammals these proteins oxidize steroids, fatty acids, and xenobiotics.
Quote:
Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases of fungi are involved in many essential cellular processes and play diverse roles. They catalyze the conversion of hydrophobic intermediates of primary and secondary metabolic pathways, detoxify natural and environmental pollutants and allow fungi to grow under different conditions.
Quote:
Cytochrome P450 enzymes catalyze a variety of oxidation and some reduction reactions, collectively involving thousands of substrates. A general chemical mechanism can be used to rationalize these reactions, such as steroid hydroxylation.
Quote:
durian_2008 said: I've read Dr. Shulgin's idea about putting 5-MeO-DMT in the substrate of psilocybin mushrooms, and that it should (in theory) 4 hydroxylate the 5-MeO-DMT into 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT.
Just looking.
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Adromac
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durian_2008
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Adromac]
#28292853 - 04/24/23 11:32 AM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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I am a novice, for now, and this is just word association, which I am quoting.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Actually, much of my exposure to nature and mycology cam from a babushka-like lady observing the 'doctrine of signatures'.
My approach to this question was that named, chemical compounds serve broadly similar functions in both plant and animal life, sometimes.
Can't it be verified, on the drawingboard, for now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSEPR_theory
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Quote:
psychedemus said: friend put 5-meo-dmt salt in to water for substrate of second flush. I took mushrooms for 5 days straight sharing with 3 other people doing same during same time. no psilocybin effect. basically oral 5-meo-dmt with longer than psilocbyin half life. Since then have taken over 50 times and shared with hundreds of people.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614674/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17262409/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine
Ok, so all of your links say 4,5-MEO-DMT could only be produced using mycelia culture. The only precursor shown to do anything to the mushroom it self was tryptamine.
You say you ate mushrooms for 5 days strait and was still getting high by the 5th day? In my experience there is a pretty sharp tolerance curve with mushrooms. To get the same effects 5 days in a row you would pretty much need to double your dose everyday. Or add other drugs which I think is possible with the method you used.
However, there is no doubt in my mind that you did NOT make 4,5-HO-DMT uptake into the mushrooms. You may have dissolved 5MEO in water which was then soaked up by the mushrooms needing water but no Psilometh with that method my friend….
If you want Psilomethoxin, you would need to put it in the substrate or add it to agar plates with the mycelium and then extract from there.
The mushroom won’t uptake foreign substances via the enzyme pathway which is needed to produce 4,5-MEO in the mushroom fruits.
Have fun 😎
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
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I think, my mind has begun grasping at this problem in a stupid and intuitive way, as by word association.
You would not necessarily need to use any biological route to hydroxylate an organic compound.
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: I think, my mind has begun grasping at this problem in a stupid and intuitive way, as by word association.
You would not necessarily need to use any biological route to hydroxylate an organic compound.

Go on…. How would one do that?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Hamilton Morris tested some psilomethoxin mushrooms with LCMS, and it came back as psilocybin + ketamine. When he contacted the church to report his results, they replied with nothing but a wink emoji.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
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Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Hamilton Morris tested some psilomethoxin mushrooms with LCMS, and it came back as psilocybin + ketamine. When he contacted the church to report his results, they replied with nothing but a wink emoji.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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djbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
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Well did he at least try them 😂
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otherwhitemeat

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 875
Loc: Florida
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What i heard is that church sent HM some to test for psilomethoxin. He found none. Church then sent him a second sample containing ketamine to fuck with him, because they couldn’t believe his first result. I think leadership believed, and may yet still believe, that they’ve made psilomethoxin, and has been inclined to dismiss contrary labs as either malicious or incompetent.
Meanwhile, based on extensive bio-assay, i think they’ve made something very interesting that may bear little resemblance to psilomethoxin, and isn't just psilocybin with placebo either. But they don’t know what it is, nor how to make it consistently. I think some samples tested may indeed have been only weak cubes, as 3 of 7 separate packages of sacrament I've sampled have seemed to me. Meanwhile also they continue to call it psilomethoxin without evidence, and prevaricated about whether and how much scheduled material is present.
Meanwhile also, church is building their own lab with a real chemist at considerable expense, because most who’ve tried these mushrooms know they’re onto SOMETHING good. Depending who you ask, chemist is tasked with a) proving psilomethoxin has been there all along, b) finding out what else is there that accounts for the unique effects, c) gearing up for mass enzymatic synthesis of Psilomethoxin(tm) for distribution wherever kratom and CBD and whatever are sold, regardless whether 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT is present, d) doing responsible safety research, e) providing a veneer of scientific cred to what is otherwise a legally tenuous mail-order cubensis church having a for-profit arm PsiloSynth, f) synthesizing actual psilomethoxin and representing somehow that they’ve been making it all along, just without proof, or g) some combination of the above.
I’m staying tuned. I hope the chemist will identify what’s in their sacrament in a scientifically solid way, and how, so it can become available and better understood with or without the church.
Edited by otherwhitemeat (10/14/23 04:44 PM)
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11.11
Stranger

Registered: 10/23/23
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I understand correctly that this toxin has a stimulating effect on the body?
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Kinoko314
Stranger Danger



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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Hamilton Morris tested some psilomethoxin mushrooms with LCMS, and it came back as psilocybin + ketamine. When he contacted the church to report his results, they replied with nothing but a wink emoji.
If they were pure ketamine I might be down, but I don't know if that would be a good mix. Either way it's a lie.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Kinoko314] 1
#28525515 - 11/01/23 01:07 PM (2 months, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kinoko314 said: If they were pure ketamine I might be down, but I don't know if that would be a good mix. Either way it's a lie.
I am not sure if they are distributing the samples spiked with Ketamine, or if it's something they sent only to Hamilton to check to see how good his chemical analysis was.
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thewoodlandchemist
Master of the universe

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I remember reading Gartz experiments with nn-diethyltryptamine in the journal of basic microbiology issue 29, I think it was called "Biosynthesis of tryptamine derivatives in cultures of Psilocybe" or something similar. He demonstrate the ability to utilise various substituted tryptamines as precursors for biosynthesis in fungi. But since then (I think it was the late 80s) I've not seen anyone successfully reattempt it. Anyone know if anyone has successfully achieved similar results since Gartz in the 80s?
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thewoodlandchemist
Master of the universe

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Like during synthesis? It's easy if you start from a material with a hydroxyl group eg, 5-HO- indol 😂 Adding that OH group to an existing tryptamine is a bit harder. Theres just no easy way I can think of to add a hydroxyl at the 5 position of that benzene ring.. Maybe I'm missing the obvious, so please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember half of what I once knew 😆 Apparently a french group of researchers synthesised 4-HO-5-MeO-dimethyltryptamine using ortho-vanillin as a starting material. I can't seem to find a free copy of the write up though.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Quote:
thewoodlandchemist said: I remember reading Gartz experiments with nn-diethyltryptamine in the journal of basic microbiology issue 29, I think it was called "Biosynthesis of tryptamine derivatives in cultures of Psilocybe" or something similar. He demonstrate the ability to utilise various substituted tryptamines as precursors for biosynthesis in fungi. But since then (I think it was the late 80s) I've not seen anyone successfully reattempt it. Anyone know if anyone has successfully achieved similar results since Gartz in the 80s?
With our current understanding of how psilocybin mushrooms synthesize psilocybin, I Gartz paper doesn't make sense. In the past few years this pathway has been worked out. Perhaps new experiments could been done that take advantage of how the enzymes really work rather than how Gartz thought they worked.
Gartz published a lot of nonsense and I think this falls into this category. He mostly got away with it, but experts in the field have been rolling their eyes at much of his work for years.
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KykeonAnalytics
Stranger

Registered: 11/02/23
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We have recently received one of those obnoxious samples and published an article about our findings.

The results obtained by our laboratory, in line with all of those obtained by other independent laboratories, question the actual existence of psilomethoxin in the Church's sacraments: We did not find any psilomethoxin, neither 5-MeO-DMT. Only psilocybin and psilocin (and in traces baeocystin)!

By the way, here is the paper regarding the synthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT thewoodlandchemist mentioned (found thanks to MAPS and DMT-Nexus). The animal trials included in this paper suggest no bioactivity whereas other researchers even hypothesize about the potential neurotoxcicity due to a hypothetically possible metabolism of psilomethoxin in our body: "Very much like the chemically-induced parkinsonism by MPTP and hydroxydopamine, and lesions resulting from dihydroxytryptamine exposure."
So far neither Gartz, nor the church, nor any one else has unambiguously shown that Psilocybe sp. is capable of guided biosynthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT aka Psilomethoxin. One might only speculate what the real incentives for the church's claims are...
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hellofresh
Strangler


Registered: 09/22/23
Posts: 215
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Thank you this was a really interesting read!
-------------------- Don't panic
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
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Responsible stakeholders, and someone puts their money where their mouth is. ^1000
But, how do you deal with someone who has provably given you strange bullshit to eat.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Quote:
KykeonAnalytics said: We have recently received one of those obnoxious samples and published an article about our findings.
Great work!
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



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Im so intrigued. If its a scam or moneygrab, why would the church spend all that money on a lab and hire their own chemist? If biosynthesis was real youd think drug companies would already be all over it but what do i know? im just a lowly servent of the 'regular' cultivation forum.
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otherwhitemeat

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 875
Loc: Florida
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Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: Im so intrigued. If it's a scam or moneygrab, why would the church spend all that money on a lab and hire their own chemist?
Because those who have tried it can't square the effects with that of normal cubensis and placebo. Just because psilomethoxin is likely not present doesn't mean nothing else interesting is.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
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I think, how would you make that claim really happen, and I come up with brainstorms.
Using the same amount of inspiration and physical effort, you might have arrived at a productive outcome.
Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: Im so intrigued. If its a scam or moneygrab, why would the church spend all that money on a lab and hire their own chemist?
Church is usually a scam or moneygrab, where people have invested in the trappings of authority.
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



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Quote:
otherwhitemeat said:
Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: Im so intrigued. If it's a scam or moneygrab, why would the church spend all that money on a lab and hire their own chemist?
Because those who have tried it can't square the effects with that of normal cubensis and placebo. Just because psilomethoxin is likely not present doesn't mean nothing else interesting is.
exactly...
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Kinoko314
Stranger Danger



Registered: 12/16/22
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 13 days, 4 hours
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Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: Im so intrigued. If its a scam or moneygrab, why would the church spend all that money on a lab and hire their own chemist? If biosynthesis was real youd think drug companies would already be all over it but what do i know? im just a lowly servent of the 'regular' cultivation forum.
Because it makes you think it's legit. EVERY church has a history of being a scam/moneygrab.
If anyone thinks they actually created something here, I have a bridge to sell you. Honestly I don't think it's worth giving them the thought.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Kinoko314] 1
#28556970 - 11/26/23 09:49 AM (2 months, 11 hours ago) |
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Whether or not they had all the scientific parts and pieces, or if they were just a personality cult, they are now publicly accused of distributing the wrong substance.
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11.11
Stranger


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What is it about? Guys, I see there are people here who know about the chemistry of mushrooms? Do you know exactly what substances cause body noise? Could it be a link to psilomethoxine?
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: 11.11] 1
#28563674 - 12/01/23 11:38 AM (1 month, 26 days ago) |
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Organic chemistry, in general, is made of major chemical groupings that, in childish terms, could be regarded as Tinker Toys that only fit in certain configurations.
Almost anything -- 5-MEO-DMT, fent, etc, etc -- can be synthesized from several common ingredients.
So, it is never spurious to say that someone has found a possible link.
Except, they have failed chemical testing and gave someone a misidentified substance.
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