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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #28284696 - 04/18/23 11:51 PM (9 months, 4 days ago)

Knew it. Thanks for sharing Maria


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: mind.at.large]
    #28291208 - 04/23/23 10:10 AM (9 months, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Cytochrome P450 (CYP) is a hemeprotein that plays a key role in the metabolism of drugs and other xenobiotics. It has more than 50 enzymes, six of which metabolize up to 90 percent of drugs. Genetic variability (polymorphism) in CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 may influence a patient's response to commonly prescribed drug classes, including beta blockers and antidepressants. In mammals these proteins oxidize steroids, fatty acids, and xenobiotics.



Quote:

Cytochrome P450 monooxygenases of fungi are involved in many essential cellular processes and play diverse roles. They catalyze the conversion of hydrophobic intermediates of primary and secondary metabolic pathways, detoxify natural and environmental pollutants and allow fungi to grow under different conditions.



Quote:

Cytochrome P450 enzymes catalyze a variety of oxidation and some reduction reactions, collectively involving thousands of substrates. A general chemical mechanism can be used to rationalize these reactions, such as steroid hydroxylation.




Quote:

durian_2008 said:
I've read Dr. Shulgin's idea about putting 5-MeO-DMT in the substrate of psilocybin mushrooms, and that it should (in theory) 4 hydroxylate the 5-MeO-DMT into 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT.




Just looking. :strokebeard:


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OfflineAdromac
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Registered: 02/01/22
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Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: durian_2008]
    #28291504 - 04/23/23 02:17 PM (9 months, 8 hours ago)

:eek:


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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,666
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Adromac]
    #28292853 - 04/24/23 11:32 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

:alert: I am a novice, for now, and this is just word association, which I am quoting.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: durian_2008]
    #28292879 - 04/24/23 11:59 AM (8 months, 30 days ago)

Actually, much of my exposure to nature and mycology cam from a babushka-like lady observing the 'doctrine of signatures'.

My approach to this question was that named, chemical compounds serve broadly similar functions in both plant and animal life, sometimes.

Can't it be verified, on the drawingboard, for now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSEPR_theory


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: psychedemus] * 1
    #28491373 - 10/03/23 07:05 PM (3 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

psychedemus said:
friend put 5-meo-dmt salt in to water for substrate of second flush. I took mushrooms for 5 days straight sharing with 3 other people doing same during same time. no psilocybin effect. basically oral 5-meo-dmt with longer than psilocbyin half life. Since then have taken over 50 times and shared with hundreds of people.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2614674/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17262409/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine




Ok, so all of your links say 4,5-MEO-DMT could only be produced using mycelia culture. The only precursor shown to do anything to the mushroom it self was tryptamine.

You say you ate mushrooms for 5 days strait and was still getting high by the 5th day? In my experience there is a pretty sharp tolerance curve with mushrooms. To get the same effects 5 days in a row you would pretty much need to double your dose everyday. Or add other drugs which I think is possible with the method you used.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that you did NOT make 4,5-HO-DMT uptake into the mushrooms. You may have dissolved 5MEO in water which was then soaked up by the mushrooms needing water but no Psilometh with that method my friend….

If you want Psilomethoxin, you would need to put it in the substrate or add it to agar plates with the mycelium and then extract from there.

The mushroom won’t uptake foreign substances via the enzyme pathway which is needed to produce 4,5-MEO in the mushroom fruits.

Have fun 😎


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #28491542 - 10/03/23 10:45 PM (3 months, 22 days ago)

I think, my mind has begun grasping at this problem in a stupid and intuitive way, as by word association.

You would not necessarily need to use any biological route to hydroxylate an organic compound.

:lipsrsealed:


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: durian_2008]
    #28491575 - 10/03/23 11:55 PM (3 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
I think, my mind has begun grasping at this problem in a stupid and intuitive way, as by word association.

You would not necessarily need to use any biological route to hydroxylate an organic compound.

:lipsrsealed:




Go on…. How would one do that?

:popcorn:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: djbabyjesus] * 7
    #28495999 - 10/07/23 10:38 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Hamilton Morris tested some psilomethoxin mushrooms with LCMS, and it came back as psilocybin + ketamine.  When he contacted the church to report his results, they replied with nothing but a wink emoji.


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Invisiblemind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28496016 - 10/07/23 11:11 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Hamilton Morris tested some psilomethoxin mushrooms with LCMS, and it came back as psilocybin + ketamine.  When he contacted the church to report his results, they replied with nothing but a wink emoji.



:judyfacepalm:


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28496026 - 10/07/23 11:24 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Well did he at least try them 😂


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Invisibleotherwhitemeat
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Registered: 10/25/06
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Loc: Florida
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #28503302 - 10/13/23 01:32 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

What i heard is that church sent HM some to test for psilomethoxin. He found none. Church then sent him a second sample containing ketamine to fuck with him, because they couldn’t believe his first result. I think leadership believed, and may yet still believe, that they’ve made psilomethoxin, and has been inclined to dismiss contrary labs as either malicious or incompetent.

Meanwhile, based on extensive bio-assay, i think they’ve made something very interesting that may bear little resemblance to psilomethoxin, and isn't just psilocybin with placebo either. But they don’t know what it is, nor how to make it consistently. I think some samples tested may indeed have been only weak cubes, as 3 of 7 separate packages of sacrament I've sampled have seemed to me. Meanwhile also they continue to call it psilomethoxin without evidence, and prevaricated about whether and how much scheduled material is present.

Meanwhile also, church is building their own lab with a real chemist at considerable expense, because most who’ve tried these mushrooms know they’re onto SOMETHING good. Depending who you ask, chemist is tasked with a) proving psilomethoxin has been there all along, b) finding out what else is there that accounts for the unique effects, c) gearing up for mass enzymatic synthesis of Psilomethoxin(tm) for distribution wherever kratom and CBD and whatever are sold, regardless whether 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT is present, d) doing responsible safety research, e) providing a veneer of scientific cred to what is otherwise a legally tenuous mail-order cubensis church having a for-profit arm PsiloSynth, f) synthesizing actual psilomethoxin and representing somehow that they’ve been making it all along, just without proof, or g) some combination of the above.

I’m staying tuned. I hope the chemist will identify what’s in their sacrament in a scientifically solid way, and how, so it can become available and better understood with or without the church.


Edited by otherwhitemeat (10/14/23 04:44 PM)


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Offline11.11
Stranger

Registered: 10/23/23
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Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: otherwhitemeat]
    #28516068 - 10/24/23 12:45 AM (3 months, 2 days ago)

I understand correctly that this toxin has a stimulating effect on the body?


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OfflineKinoko314
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Registered: 12/16/22
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Colorado Flag
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28525289 - 11/01/23 09:11 AM (2 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Hamilton Morris tested some psilomethoxin mushrooms with LCMS, and it came back as psilocybin + ketamine.  When he contacted the church to report his results, they replied with nothing but a wink emoji.




If they were pure ketamine I might be down, but I don't know if that would be a good mix.  Either way it's a lie.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Kinoko314] * 1
    #28525515 - 11/01/23 01:07 PM (2 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Kinoko314 said:
If they were pure ketamine I might be down, but I don't know if that would be a good mix.  Either way it's a lie.





I am not sure if they are distributing the samples spiked with Ketamine, or if it's something they sent only to Hamilton to check to see how good his chemical analysis was.


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Offlinethewoodlandchemist
Master of the universe
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Registered: 11/03/18
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28526724 - 11/02/23 02:59 PM (2 months, 24 days ago)

I remember reading Gartz experiments with nn-diethyltryptamine in the journal of basic microbiology issue 29, I think it was called "Biosynthesis of tryptamine derivatives in cultures of Psilocybe" or something similar. He demonstrate the ability to utilise various substituted tryptamines as precursors for biosynthesis in fungi. But since then (I think it was the late 80s) I've not seen anyone successfully reattempt it. Anyone know if anyone has successfully achieved similar results since Gartz in the 80s?


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Offlinethewoodlandchemist
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #28526751 - 11/02/23 03:20 PM (2 months, 24 days ago)

Like during synthesis? It's easy if you start from a material with a hydroxyl group eg, 5-HO- indol 😂 Adding that OH group to an existing tryptamine is a bit harder. Theres just no easy way I can think of to add a hydroxyl at the 5 position of that benzene ring.. Maybe I'm missing the obvious, so please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember half of what I once knew 😆
Apparently a french group of researchers synthesised 4-HO-5-MeO-dimethyltryptamine using ortho-vanillin as a starting material. I can't seem to find a free copy of the write up though.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: thewoodlandchemist] * 1
    #28526995 - 11/02/23 07:11 PM (2 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

thewoodlandchemist said:
I remember reading Gartz experiments with nn-diethyltryptamine in the journal of basic microbiology issue 29, I think it was called "Biosynthesis of tryptamine derivatives in cultures of Psilocybe" or something similar. He demonstrate the ability to utilise various substituted tryptamines as precursors for biosynthesis in fungi. But since then (I think it was the late 80s) I've not seen anyone successfully reattempt it. Anyone know if anyone has successfully achieved similar results since Gartz in the 80s?





With our current understanding of how psilocybin mushrooms synthesize psilocybin, I Gartz paper doesn't make sense.  In the past few years this pathway has been worked out.  Perhaps new experiments could been done that take advantage of how the enzymes really work rather than how Gartz thought they worked.

Gartz published a lot of nonsense and I think this falls into this category.  He mostly got away with it, but experts in the field have been rolling their eyes at much of his work for years.


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OfflineKykeonAnalytics
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Registered: 11/02/23
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Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 7
    #28530802 - 11/05/23 03:52 PM (2 months, 21 days ago)

We have recently received one of those obnoxious samples and published an article about our findings.



The results obtained by our laboratory, in line with all of those obtained by other independent laboratories, question the actual existence of psilomethoxin in the Church's sacraments: We did not find any psilomethoxin, neither 5-MeO-DMT. Only psilocybin and psilocin (and in traces baeocystin)!



By the way, here is the paper regarding the synthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT thewoodlandchemist mentioned (found thanks to MAPS and DMT-Nexus). The animal trials included in this paper suggest no bioactivity whereas other researchers even hypothesize about the potential neurotoxcicity due to a hypothetically possible metabolism of psilomethoxin in our body: "Very much like the chemically-induced parkinsonism by MPTP and hydroxydopamine, and lesions resulting from dihydroxytryptamine exposure."

So far neither Gartz, nor the church, nor any one else has unambiguously shown that Psilocybe sp. is capable of guided biosynthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT aka Psilomethoxin. One might only speculate what the real incentives for the church's claims are...


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Invisiblehellofresh
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Registered: 09/22/23
Posts: 215
Re: Psilomethoxin is Real [Re: KykeonAnalytics]
    #28531178 - 11/05/23 08:40 PM (2 months, 21 days ago)

Thank you this was a really interesting read!


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