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Invisiblekreg
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Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? * 1
    #27608871 - 01/06/22 09:35 AM (2 years, 21 days ago)

I'm trying to understand the events that led up to "Bicycle day". Thanks!


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:shineon: Do what thou wilt x Love is the law, love under will. :shineon:

stop being an offtopic pube, the weed forum is that way!


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 3
    #27609625 - 01/06/22 08:14 PM (2 years, 21 days ago)

I believe he was looking for potential useful variations of migraine medication. Apparently he didn't know what he'd found at the time and Sandoz slated it, then 5 years later curiosity brought him back to it.

I always found the story of accidental consumption a bit unlikely. Any thoughts about that?


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 6
    #27609699 - 01/06/22 08:56 PM (2 years, 21 days ago)

The first uses for ergot were before Hoffman got there. Before Hoffman even got into the lab, they'd patented Gynergen, for obstetrics.

Ergot was known as 'mutterkorn' in German, 'Mother's corn', because it's use for obstetrics was widely known for a long time.

All quotes from Hoffman's autobiography. The first four chapters are all about ergot. 

Quote:


Looking for a new field of research, I asked Professor Stoll to let me continue the investigations on the alkaloids of ergot, which he had begun in 1917 and which had led directly to the isolation of ergotamine in 1918. Ergotamine, discovered by Stoll, was the first ergot alkaloid obtained in pure chemical form. Although ergotamine quickly took a significant place in therapeutics (under the trade name Gynergen) as a hemostatic remedy in obstetrics and as a medicament in the treatment of migraine, chemical research on ergot in the Sandoz laboratories was abandoned after the isolation of ergotamine and the determination of its empirical formula.






Quote:

 
The first mention of a medicinal use of ergot, namely as an ecbolic (a medicament to precipitate childbirth), is found in the herbal of the Frankfurt city physician Adam Lonitzer (Lonicerus) in the year 1582. Although ergot, as Lonitzer stated, had been used since olden times by midwives, it was not until 1808 that this drug gained entry into academic medicine, on the strength of a work by the American physician John Stearns  entitled Account of the Putvis Parturiens, a Remedy for Quickening Childbirth. The use of ergot as an ecbolic did not, however, endure. Practitioners became aware quite early of the great danger to the child, owing primarily to the uncertainty of dosage, which when too high led to uterine spasms. From then on, the use of ergot in obstetrics was confined to stopping postpartum hemorrhage (bleeding after childbirth).





For LSD in particular, Hoffman says he was adding a diethylamide to lysergic acid to get an 'analeptic effect', that is, respiratory stimulant.

Quote:

I had planned the synthesis of this compound with the intention of obtaining a circulatory and respiratory stimulant (an analeptic). Such stimulating properties could be expected for lysergic acid diethylamide, because it shows similarity in chemical structure to the analeptic already known at that time, namely nicotinic acid diethylamide
(Coramine)




Interestingly, LSD was actually studied for its own effect on the uterus - it was found to be pretty close to another ergot medication, ergobasine, having 70% of its effect on the uterus. So LSD retains this utero-tonic effect.

Quote:

During the testing of LSD-25 in the pharmacological department of Sandoz,
whose director at the time was Professor Ernst Rothlin, a strong effect on the uterus was established. It amounted to some 70 percent of the activity of ergobasine. The research report also noted, in passing, that the experimental animals became restless during the narcosis. The new substance, however, aroused no special interest in our pharmacologists and physicians; testing was therefore discontinued.




Maybe these strange results from the animals suggested an additional use to Hoffman?


Edited by CreonAntigone (01/06/22 09:04 PM)


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: CreonAntigone] * 1
    #27609710 - 01/06/22 09:12 PM (2 years, 21 days ago)

Excellent information thank you both very much. Ill have some questions later, it's too late for thinking 🧠🛏🌙


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:shineon: Do what thou wilt x Love is the law, love under will. :shineon:

stop being an offtopic pube, the weed forum is that way!


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Offlinecatcake1
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 1
    #27611318 - 01/08/22 07:06 AM (2 years, 19 days ago)

:heart:


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: catcake1] * 3
    #27611962 - 01/08/22 05:23 PM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Stop with the hearts already catcake


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: TheStallionMang] * 1
    #27611964 - 01/08/22 05:24 PM (2 years, 19 days ago)

I think that's a bot or something. And thanks yall! Creon you answered all my questions in the other thread thanks you are very informative!


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 1
    #27611970 - 01/08/22 05:30 PM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Yo Kreg, I was bouncing around different threads and noticed a couple were just hearts then noticed it was the same user.  He's got 36 posts and about 34 of them are just hearts...he probably needs a 50 post count for marketplace or some shit but it's annoying to see someone so lazy


Edited by TheStallionMang (01/08/22 05:30 PM)


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: TheStallionMang] * 1
    #27611997 - 01/08/22 05:55 PM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Right that's what I meant by or something. Catcake the mods will see you theyre pretty smart ahaha.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 1
    #27641566 - 02/01/22 08:51 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Read "My Problem Child" by Hoffmann.

Covers more or less everything.

If I remember correctly, he basically accidentally dosed himself while working with the compound, and after that initial trippy time he decided to experiment on himself intentionally.

The accidental dosing was due, in part, to having no idea how small an amount would produce an effect- not at all hard to absorb 50 to 100 micrograms, especially if you have no reason to suspect that such a small amount would significantly alter your brain chemistry.

Still not having much of a clue, he then went on to intentionally dose himself with a "very small" dose of just a few milligrams. If I remember correctly, his experience biking home from the lab while coming up on several thousand mics is the inspiration for bicycle day.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 1
    #27705060 - 03/22/22 08:36 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kreg said:
I'm trying to understand the events that led up to "Bicycle day". Thanks!



If you read Albert Hofmann's book, "LSD My Problem Child" it goes all into the history of why they were studying ergot in the first place. You can download the book for free online. I forget, but I think it had something to do with finding some sort of circulatory stimulant. They had been using ergotomines in order to induce labor for a long time before that, so they knew it had some uses.


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Offlinesedulous
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 1
    #27713146 - 03/29/22 04:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

^--- This is the correct answer. +1 I think they say these days


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Offlines240779
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: CreonAntigone] * 1
    #27719094 - 04/03/22 08:14 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
All quotes from Hoffman's autobiography. The first four chapters are all about ergot.




Yeah, all he had to do was start reading LSD: My Problem Child. Erowid even made an HTML version: https://erowid.org/library/books_online/


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: s240779] * 2
    #27719101 - 04/03/22 08:20 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Creon actually has a thread up with most of the answers and some very detailed notes with citations


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: kreg] * 1
    #27720177 - 04/03/22 10:31 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I really loved reading that book and I should probably read it again. It's such an easy read and it really doesn't take long to read the whole book. And yes, quite a good portion of the book is dedicated to just the history of ergot and why the hell they were doing different synthesizations (is that even a real word?) with ergot. LSD-25 happened to be the 25th synth, which is why they named it LSD-25. And that was the last synth that they created. Just like what Vanessa Williams said in her song, "Save the best for last."



Albert didn't touch LSD-25 for a few good years until ONE DAY when he had an inclination to study it again. I think he probably knew that it had psychoactive effects but I'm guessing he probably just though it was like an energy stimulator like coffee or cocaine. He was probably trying to find a coffee substitute but had NO CLUE about its hallucinogenic and psychedelic effects. Boy was he in for a rude awakening! lol.


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Edited by OutsideOfMyMind (04/03/22 10:33 PM)


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OfflineDelsym
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Re: Why was Sandoz studying Ergot? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 1
    #27747236 - 04/22/22 07:02 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

flying pyramids mister natural orange sunsine


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