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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinestarpig
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Registered: 07/09/21
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28364541 - 06/18/23 04:23 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Well obviously it’s more complicated than that. Ignorance is surprisingly hard to correct once it’s in there.

Just looking at the news and all the nonsense still floating around even after it was proven false. People still called election fraud after it was disproven. COVID conspiracies still float around despite not only being disproven but having no evidence. People still believe in flat earth for crying out loud.

So while the answer is simple the implementation isn’t. But it’s a fact that education greatly reduces racism and homophobia, etc. It’s for that reason it’s being attacked in the US with book bans, censoring civil rights history, etc.

There’s nothing left to say, it’s just a fact. Either accept it or don’t.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364587 - 06/18/23 05:35 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

that's not good either


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28364589 - 06/18/23 05:36 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Are you gonna explain or just be vague?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364601 - 06/18/23 05:55 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

starpig said:
... But it’s a fact that education greatly reduces racism and homophobia, etc. It’s for that reason it’s being attacked in the US with book bans, censoring civil rights history, etc.

There’s nothing left to say, it’s just a fact. Either accept it or don’t.



after all the book banning and retrograde thinking, the education process itself is still being supported, just not anything that can be interpreted freely.

Cognitive freedom is being stifled, and education is being downgraded.

I think what we are looking at is not simply ignorance, but existential fear of anything different at all in any way.

We can address that directly, by shaming.


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28364616 - 06/18/23 06:14 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Well no, the education process is ostensibly being “supported” but the budget for it keeps getting cut. It’s one of those things people say they value but don’t actually do anything about.

It is fear of anything different in any way, true. But that fear is due to ignorance. Something new is only scary if you don’t know anything about it. It’s like people being scared of dragonflies even though they can’t hurt you.

Fear and ignorance go hand in hand, we fear what we don’t understand and from what I see conservatives want to keep it that way. Why? Because they have nothing else, they have no plan. But keep your based scared by inventing demons that don’t exist and you don’t need one.

And the only reason they get away with it is because overall their base doesn’t know better. In fact there was a study that correlated conservatism with lower intelligence .

I’ve heard them speak, it’s all vague gesturing and no real plan or solution. Yet whenever one is proposed they twist the words to spread fear among their base. In Florida a teacher was fired for showing a Disney movie with a gay character in it.

Keep them in the dark and it’s easy to lead them by the nose


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364617 - 06/18/23 06:18 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I forgot to add that in Florida they effectively made it legal to kidnap trans people and extradite them back to the state.

Look, I don’t hate them. I don’t. I feel sorry for them though, because they’re being taken advantage of and misled. They’re stressing over phantoms when the real problems go unheard.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28364625 - 06/18/23 06:26 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Education has been in the process of being downgraded for many decades. Banning books from children's libraries has nothing to do with the reduction in linguistic and math skills, things that are essential to rational thought and competitiveness on the world stage.


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: Rahz]
    #28364628 - 06/18/23 06:33 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I believe they call those skills “postmodern Marxism”.

But yeah it’s been going down. Schools are given less to work with each year and expected to maintain results all to make money for admins at the top. My mom was a teacher and every year she mentioned how she was given less to work with or how cuts to the budget were made. How they just test the kids until they pass something and then they end up in grades with material they can’t grasp.

You can’t make a silk purse from a sows ear.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364664 - 06/18/23 07:20 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Budgetary constraints are part of the problem.

I also consider ad hominem attacks in debate a problem as well. Perhaps another example of failure in the educational system?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: Rahz]
    #28364679 - 06/18/23 07:35 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I suggest you google the term before using it.

That said they are appropriate, especially in this case given the mountains of evidence that exist if you just look around let alone through history.

There is no debate, they’re just wrong. What do you say to someone who argues education doesn’t stop racism/hate when we are swimming in examples of hate being caused by ignorance every day. Stupid is the only word, or blind, or both.


Edited by starpig (06/18/23 07:39 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364707 - 06/18/23 08:04 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I know well enough and reject your suggestion. And your usage will find little support, leaving you to echo chambers because opponents will decline to debate with someone who argues in bad faith because they are blinded by their own hubris.

"There is no debate, they're just wrong"... and if that wasn't bad enough, you have either not provided proof or simply alluded to anecdotal evidence, as if we should already know what you know and have the same opinion without any effort on your part.

I'm reminded of your comment to me in PM that if I didn't feel the dread of solipsism then I just didn't get it. And this was after I acknowledged the possibility of such a positionality. But you insisted that it was more than a position and was "truth" and objective, just as you have done here.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (06/18/23 08:16 PM)


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: Rahz]
    #28364711 - 06/18/23 08:07 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Ah got it, so you have nothing and are just making vague gestures like usual. Though to be honest I expected as much.

Though stupid is as stupid does I guess.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364715 - 06/18/23 08:10 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

did we achieve anything today?

btw, I would appreciate a reference to the  study that correlated conservatism with lower intelligence. (lower intelligence than whom - when was this done, how did they get away with it?)

Sorry Icelander, your memory is still important.


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28364724 - 06/18/23 08:15 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I’ll send you the link. This thread has run its course and now that I think about it dragging this on is bad taste.

EDIT: Nevermind, it seems like I can’t send you the link.


Edited by starpig (06/18/23 08:16 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig] * 1
    #28364733 - 06/18/23 08:22 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

This thread was a happy birthday thread until you started attacking a dead man. And no, I have nothing for you except a critique of your piss poor debate performance.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: Rahz]
    #28364737 - 06/18/23 08:24 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Your critique is empty.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364749 - 06/18/23 08:38 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

That's enough. If you would like to continue this discussion, please start a new thread. And any further personal attacks will not be tolerated. Please address your responses to the argument, not the poster.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #28364760 - 06/18/23 08:49 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I did and the response was “well look around, it doesn’t look like it” despite the fact that looking around proves my point.

Like I said there is no argument, it’s just vague gesturing, and not even correct or based on reality.

When they are just demonstrably wrong all that’s left is to call them stupid


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: starpig]
    #28364765 - 06/18/23 08:57 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

That's a bullshit recollection. It's all in my inbox.

No, there is no argument from me with you about whatever topic you think is appropriate in a birthday thread. I'm not having some other conversation with you.

You demonstrated nothing to anyone's satisfaction but your own. And then you fucked yourself by pissing on the person you were arguing with.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (06/18/23 09:14 PM)


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Offlinestarpig
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Re: Happy birthday, Icelander! [Re: Rahz]
    #28364779 - 06/18/23 09:18 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Again empty. Just like the response to Becker.

I’ve shown my point several times. At this point you’re just blind.

You have nothing just like Tubs.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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