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InvisibleBph
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Bph] * 4
    #27734259 - 04/14/22 10:39 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Couple more were ready. I’m happy I didn’t pull them right after I thought they were dead. They looked rough as hell the last few weeks with dead fan leaves and brown every other kinda leaf but they are maturing and hopefully gonna wash real nice.


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Bph]
    #27734281 - 04/14/22 11:06 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bph said:
Couple more were ready. I’m happy I didn’t pull them right after I thought they were dead. They looked rough as hell the last few weeks with dead fan leaves and brown every other kinda leaf but they are maturing and hopefully gonna wash real nice.





Yeah, that would’ve sucked.  Never give up on them.  How long were they in flower?


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InvisibleLizardWizard
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Brain Bulb]
    #27734301 - 04/14/22 11:23 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Bulb said:
Found this light in my attic.  Think it would help with larf if I put it under the canopy?  Kind of concerned that there’s not enough light penetration with my canopy being so dense.







Look at how many watts it is, considering that it's not suited towards plant growth you'd be wise not to count more than 1g/W in your expectation of what it's going to make in terms of difference on the scale in the end.

Remember plant growth and bud structure isn't only light input.

It's available CO2, available nutrients, available light, and available root zone oxygen. And thieving away enough larf. You're often better off ditching ballast vs trying to boost the engine.

Check your air movement, CO2 replenishment, humidity and temperature. All of those together need to be tended to and balanced, just some extra light won't do much if the rest isn't in check.


--------------------
The best things in life
can be smelled on one's fingers.


Edited by LizardWizard (04/14/22 11:25 AM)


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: LizardWizard]
    #27734378 - 04/14/22 12:49 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LizardWizard said:

Look at how many watts it is, considering that it's not suited towards plant growth you'd be wise not to count more than 1g/W in your expectation of what it's going to make in terms of difference on the scale in the end.

Remember plant growth and bud structure isn't only light input.

It's available CO2, available nutrients, available light, and available root zone oxygen. And thieving away enough larf. You're often better off ditching ballast vs trying to boost the engine.

Check your air movement, CO2 replenishment, humidity and temperature. All of those together need to be tended to and balanced, just some extra light won't do much if the rest isn't in check.




Gotcha.  Yeah I’ve been paying close attention to my environment this time.  75-79F, 50-55% rH, fan above and below the canopy and my inline fan’s been running non stop to cycle the air in my tent.


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InvisibleMr Piggy
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: LizardWizard] * 1
    #27734397 - 04/14/22 01:07 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LizardWizard said:
Quote:

Brain Bulb said:
Found this light in my attic.  Think it would help with larf if I put it under the canopy?  Kind of concerned that there’s not enough light penetration with my canopy being so dense.







Look at how many watts it is, considering that it's not suited towards plant growth you'd be wise not to count more than 1g/W in your expectation of what it's going to make in terms of difference on the scale in the end.

Remember plant growth and bud structure isn't only light input.

It's available CO2, available nutrients, available light, and available root zone oxygen. And thieving away enough larf. You're often better off ditching ballast vs trying to boost the engine.

Check your air movement, CO2 replenishment, humidity and temperature. All of those together need to be tended to and balanced, just some extra light won't do much if the rest isn't in check.




Sure, but I don't think he's running a contained grow and he stated that the problem is a closed canopy that's preventing light penetration.  The problem is identified and the solution is supplemental lighting from underneath.  I have had great success bumping up production and turning popcorn larf to solid buds by lighting from the underside with a few well placed household screw in LED bulbs with the plastic bulb cut off.  You can select specific spectrums and it's a cheap and easy solution.  Some people build cabs or make lighting units using these bulbs and simple sockets.  Wiring them is not hard, or you can simply use adjustable desk lamps.



Already working on my next cheapo bonsai mom/vege clone cabinet.  All you need are some sockets, some used axial fans, some wire, and cursing!


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🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄵🄾🄸🄻


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Brain Bulb]
    #27734405 - 04/14/22 01:16 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

A photon meter would help answer these questions. I have one by Apogee. You can place the sensor wherever, say next to your larf, and check the photons on your phone. Helps dial in positioning and pruning.

Quote:

Brain Bulb said:







Your canopy looks awesome, that's exactly how I'd like it to be. I don't think you'd get much benefit from that 3k lumen light, it's a little too late and I'm not sure where you could place it without being super close to the plants, you'd only be supplementing 3-4 larfy branches down there. You're already doing a good job of playing to LED's strengths with an even canopy of tops. The lower nugs are never going to be as good.

Did you raise your light for the canopy photo? Seems high but that might be best for a light that size in a 4x4. 450w is definitely on the low side for a 4x4. That spiderfarmer looks very good just better in a 3x3.

Two of those esv300 Hobbit pointed out would be great in a 4x4.


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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
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Re: The Official Cannabis Growers Thread [Re: openmind]
    #27734432 - 04/14/22 01:45 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

How long can you keep clone clippings before they need to be grown?


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Icon]
    #27734453 - 04/14/22 02:06 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
A photon meter would help answer these questions. I have one by Apogee. You can place the sensor wherever, say next to your larf, and check the photons on your phone. Helps dial in positioning and pruning.

Quote:

Brain Bulb said:







Your canopy looks awesome, that's exactly how I'd like it to be. I don't think you'd get much benefit from that 3k lumen light, it's a little too late and I'm not sure where you could place it without being super close to the plants, you'd only be supplementing 3-4 larfy branches down there. You're already doing a good job of playing to LED's strengths with an even canopy of tops. The lower nugs are never going to be as good.

Did you raise your light for the canopy photo? Seems high but that might be best for a light that size in a 4x4. 450w is definitely on the low side for a 4x4. That spiderfarmer looks very good just better in a 3x3.

Two of those esv300 Hobbit pointed out would be great in a 4x4.




Thanks man.  Think I’ll just let this run play out and take notes of what I can do differently next time. 

I didn’t raise my light.  It’s currently set at 18”.  Think I should lower it some?  Was going by what spider farmer recommended in the manual. 

I’ve been looking into the ESV300’s.  Need to finish out this run to get the funds to buy new lights though.


--------------------


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #27734475 - 04/14/22 02:27 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Piggy said:
Quote:

LizardWizard said:
Quote:

Brain Bulb said:
Found this light in my attic.  Think it would help with larf if I put it under the canopy?  Kind of concerned that there’s not enough light penetration with my canopy being so dense.







Look at how many watts it is, considering that it's not suited towards plant growth you'd be wise not to count more than 1g/W in your expectation of what it's going to make in terms of difference on the scale in the end.

Remember plant growth and bud structure isn't only light input.

It's available CO2, available nutrients, available light, and available root zone oxygen. And thieving away enough larf. You're often better off ditching ballast vs trying to boost the engine.

Check your air movement, CO2 replenishment, humidity and temperature. All of those together need to be tended to and balanced, just some extra light won't do much if the rest isn't in check.




Sure, but I don't think he's running a contained grow and he stated that the problem is a closed canopy that's preventing light penetration.  The problem is identified and the solution is supplemental lighting from underneath.  I have had great success bumping up production and turning popcorn larf to solid buds by lighting from the underside with a few well placed household screw in LED bulbs with the plastic bulb cut off.  You can select specific spectrums and it's a cheap and easy solution.  Some people build cabs or make lighting units using these bulbs and simple sockets.  Wiring them is not hard, or you can simply use adjustable desk lamps.



Already working on my next cheapo bonsai mom/vege clone cabinet.  All you need are some sockets, some used axial fans, some wire, and cursing!




When do you introduce the lights under the canopy? As soon as you transition to flower?  May be too late for me this time but I’m gonna try something next run.


--------------------


Edited by Brain Bulb (04/14/22 02:28 PM)


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Brain Bulb] * 1
    #27734505 - 04/14/22 02:56 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brain Bulb said:

I didn’t raise my light.  It’s currently set at 18”.  Think I should lower it some?  Was going by what spider farmer recommended in the manual. 

I’ve been looking into the ESV300’s.  Need to finish out this run to get the funds to buy new lights though.




Oh ok, just couldn't see it in the pictures so I was imagining like 3 feet high. 18" is good, 22" is probably even better according to their ppfd charts.


Look at the lowest line on this graph, since 400 ppm co2 is what you're at naturally.

There's diminishing returns on light intensity without supplemental CO2. From 100 to 200 ppfd, the gains are huge, you pretty much double your yield linearly with the added light. As you get higher, those gains decrease. A 100 ppfd difference from 800-900 is a 12% increase of light but you actually only get like a 3% increase in yield.

So you get more value from bringing as much of the canopy up to 600 ppfd, even if it means sacrificing some intensity in the center.



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InvisibleHobbit GDF
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Icon]
    #27734577 - 04/14/22 04:03 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Ok might be stupid question, but the ppfd 4x4 map.
What is optimum # I want over the plants?
I'm not the hippest on this stuff


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #27734646 - 04/14/22 04:46 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

The red dashed lines on that graph kinda represent the optimum levels.
At 400 ppm co2 you start to diminish around 500 ppfd. It only takes ~600 ppfd to get to 75% of maximum photosynthesis at 400 ppm co2.
To get that last 25% potential would require doubling to tripling the amount of light, from 600 to 1200-1800 ppfd. It's probably usually not worth it at that point. So 500-600 are highly efficient numbers that you might consider optimum for return on investment. >700 is considered high performance at the cost of efficiency.

Compared to photosynthesis at ~1400 ppm co2, photosynthesis at 400 ppm is about 20% of maximum potential. So the idea is after you get to 600-700 ppfd @ 400ppm, your photosynthesis is getting limited by co2 and instead of trying to push yield through light intensity you should switch to supplementing co2. If you're at the optimum 600 ppfd, doubling your light to 1200 ppfd gets you +25% yield. If you stay at 600 ppfd and instead double your co2 from 400 to 800 ppm, that 600 ppfd becomes more than twice as effective and you get +150% yield. It also raises the ppfd curve so you can get more efficient returns from increasing ppfd to the 700-900 range. So at 800 ppm co2 your optimum ppfd is around 900.

And so on until you hit diminishing returns for co2. After that I think you see the most gains from water intake. Hydro for example is going to be more efficient than soil in any situation, but it'd practically be required to make use of high co2 + high ppfd environments to keep up with the high photosynthetic rate.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Icon]
    #27734662 - 04/14/22 04:55 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Wow I had no idea c02 could have that much effect.


I definitely had my led too low for a while. When the Laos got big I had to raise it up like 5 inches and could tell a difference with the outer buds. Before I was sometimes getting stressed leaves in the middle too, it just seems more even now that it’s higher up.


--------------------
LAGM2020


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InvisibleLizardWizard
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Re: The Official Cannabis Growers Thread [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
    #27734779 - 04/14/22 06:05 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

oursoulsinmotion said:
How long can you keep clone clippings before they need to be grown?




If you can keep em in the fridge in a bag, and keep their feet wet (damp paper towel), I'd say a week, maybe you can revive some after 2.


--------------------
The best things in life
can be smelled on one's fingers.


Edited by LizardWizard (04/14/22 06:06 PM)


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InvisibleLizardWizard
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Mr Piggy] * 1
    #27734783 - 04/14/22 06:09 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Piggy said:

Already working on my next cheapo bonsai mom/vege clone cabinet.  All you need are some sockets, some used axial fans, some wire, and cursing!





You best not forget the DAMN CURSIN!


--------------------
The best things in life
can be smelled on one's fingers.


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OfflineBrain Bulb
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Icon]
    #27735374 - 04/15/22 02:35 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
Oh ok, just couldn't see it in the pictures so I was imagining like 3 feet high. 18" is good, 22" is probably even better according to their ppfd charts.


Look at the lowest line on this graph, since 400 ppm co2 is what you're at naturally.

There's diminishing returns on light intensity without supplemental CO2. From 100 to 200 ppfd, the gains are huge, you pretty much double your yield linearly with the added light. As you get higher, those gains decrease. A 100 ppfd difference from 800-900 is a 12% increase of light but you actually only get like a 3% increase in yield.

So you get more value from bringing as much of the canopy up to 600 ppfd, even if it means sacrificing some intensity in the center.






Right on, thanks for pulling those graphs up.  Don’t understand all that stuff yet but I’m going to start learning.  I’ll try raising it up to 22”s for a day or two and see how it does.  Can’t hurt.

Would it still be an organic grow adding Co2?  That’s what I’m shooting for.  Premium organic medicine for the soul.  Mainly why I prefer sativas or sativa dominant hybrids. 

Sorry if I’m rambling.  Just got back from running sound at a show and I’m a little tipsy.  Good times.  Any of you familiar with a House DJ that goes by Rescue?


--------------------


Edited by Brain Bulb (04/15/22 02:35 AM)


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InvisibleLizardWizard
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: Brain Bulb]
    #27735429 - 04/15/22 05:18 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Depends on the source of your CO2.

Stuff the room your grow tent is in with mushroom substrates and you've got yourself an organic source of CO2.


--------------------
The best things in life
can be smelled on one's fingers.


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InvisibleHFM
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: LizardWizard] * 2
    #27735457 - 04/15/22 06:07 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

So this run is finishing out.This is what is either now done or the last one is the newest seeded f1(she smells like lemon meringue and a freshly opened can of paint,then the stem rub is perfume flowers and cheesy/wood).Still need to work some things out but it's getting better.The sensi is Zanny Brain,Caged Skunk,or a lavander cross. The other is Flora De Risibile,anyways cheers,Hope it's Rad out there!



--------------------
Trees lay chipped across the paths,
we hunt their souls to eat the wrath-HFM


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: HFM] * 1
    #27735559 - 04/15/22 08:11 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Co2 has no bearing over wheather something is organic or not


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
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OfflineDoc9151M
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Re: Cannabis Growers [Re: LotKid]
    #27735613 - 04/15/22 09:06 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

HFM, what's the white plastic that makes up the sides of the grow space?. Pretty bud.

I do two big defoliations during flower, they are at day 1 and day 21-28, with any and all new growth that shades any bud sites being removed as it appears. I don't allow any fans to towards the center or up high.


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Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Edited by Doc9151 (04/15/22 09:10 AM)


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