|
AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
|
Buddhist Epistemology 2
#27730327 - 04/11/22 02:07 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
For some time, scientists would ridicule the Dhamma, because the Buddha did not make use of binary logic. Binary logic, also known as the principle of the excluded middle, entails the notion that something can be true or false, and nothing else. It is the foundation of mathematical logic, going back to Aristotle, and also of computer technology. Instead, the Buddha would employ a four-valued logic, where something can be true, false, both, or neither.
Then, in the 1960s, there emerged a new theory called relevant logic (non- classical logic). Suddenly, the Buddha's approach became entirely mathematically sound. Both true and false means that there is more than one truth contained in something, that it depends on the perspective. An example would be the problem of free will. We are living in a deterministic universe, that means there is no free will. On the other hand, even in a deterministic universe, you can do whatever you want to do. Therefore, the existence of free will is both true and false.
Neither means that we are in a paradigm where the dichotomy of true and false does not apply. For example, there is the question whether a bodhicitta is pleasant or unpleasant. The answer is: It is neither. Let me tell you: The bodhicitta is about suffering, which is utterly terrible. There are beings who get their eyes gouged out and their tongue and ears cut off. There are beings who are getting raped. It is stupid tp consider the bodhicitta as pleasant or unpleasant. That is entirely not what it's about. The way of the bodhisattva is neither. True means that one and one equals two. False means that three and four equals five. Though I guess these two are a little bit obvious.
There is actually a fifth option, where something is none of the four. That means the truth is not to be revealed (or cannot be spoken about). For example, there is the question whether the Buddha entered Nirvana at physical death. He didn't tell, he kept it a secret.
Here's a spoiler: The Buddha did not enter Nirvana. He hangs around among supernatural beings somewhere. Buddhas usually do not enter Nirvana, because it is too damn pleasant to be powerful. Besides, they have put a considerable amount of work into their consciousness. As it says at the Mars University in Futurama: "A Giant Pulsating Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste".
Edited by AnattaAtman (04/11/22 04:35 PM)
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
|
Buddhas have done no work. That is an illusion. Buddhas have paid attention to what is happening and woken up. This whole thing stinks of a way to confuse.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
#27730473 - 04/11/22 04:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Neither real nor unreal, but I think not the same, as well, with both real and unreal. Neither true nor false <> true and false. 
I was reminded of how it's phrased in the Vedic source as only in the negatives, or could be my selective memory.
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
#27730477 - 04/11/22 04:36 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
rely less on the texts whenever possible. they hold truth but only to a degree. it must match with experience and if not, discard it. it will only mislead you. what is true now is immeasurably more important than any possible truth that could be. and if it's relevant later, you will experience it then.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
#27730479 - 04/11/22 04:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Everything is void without each other 
This was a good read
--------------------
 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
|
AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
#27730493 - 04/11/22 04:48 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: Buddhas have done no work. That is an illusion. Buddhas have paid attention to what is happening and woken up.
Okay, that's Zen. I like it, but there are some serious issues with it. There is a Mahayana Sutra where a bodhisattva becomes evil after having a satori experience. That's the problem with emptiness. So much for waking up.
Quote:
This whole thing stinks of a way to confuse.
I'm sorry.
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
|
You will not confuse me. You can not. You are welcome to be here. But do not confuse yourself.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
#27730521 - 04/11/22 05:06 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Please be aware of the edit on the OP following my post. I can counter the new writing, but I think that your awareness of this fact is far more important. Just look at what is. The truth does not backtrack.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
#27730523 - 04/11/22 05:08 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: rely less on the texts whenever possible. they hold truth but only to a degree. it must match with experience and if not, discard it. it will only mislead you. what is true now is more important than any possible truth that could be. and if it's relevant later, you will experience it then.
No like neither real nor unreal? The rest was my conjecture.
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
#27730524 - 04/11/22 05:09 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I think you are on a beautiful path. My comment was general advice to you
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 22 minutes
|
|
'Here's a spoiler: The Buddha did not enter Nirvana. He hangs around among supernatural beings somewhere. Buddhas usually do not enter Nirvana, because it is too damn pleasant to be powerful. Besides, they have put a considerable amount of work into their consciousness. As it says at the Mars University in Futurama: "A Giant Pulsating Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste". '
If Buddha were in Nirvana, could he answer? If he does answer, is he not? When I ask if he is, he just smiles and disappears. The question seems to quite amuse him.
|
AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
|
|
Quote:
connectedcosmos said: This was a good read 
Thanks.
I added a line at the end which I think is quite neat .
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
#27730537 - 04/11/22 05:25 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
just so syncro. it's a joke to think a Buddha is somewhere rather than eveywhere
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
#27730546 - 04/11/22 05:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
syncro said: If Buddha were in Nirvana, could he answer? If he does answer, is he not? When I ask if he is, he just smiles and disappears. The question seems to quite amuse him.
Nirvana is the undifferentiated field of consciousness. Your subjective experience dissolves, like a drop returning to the ocean. Does the drop still exist when it has returned to the ocean? That's up for debate.
Something I have struggled with a little is the question if one can come back from Nirvana. According to the Buddha, Nirvana is permanent. I wasn't so sure about that. After all, consciousness has to come from somewhere, doesn't it? I've come to the conclusion that Nirvana is mystical. It defies rational thinking. There is very little which can be said about it.
|
AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
#27730556 - 04/11/22 05:41 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: You will not confuse me. You can not.
I don't want to confuse you. I appreciate your opinion.
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
|
I will not say the same in return. Even if ultimately I very much love you. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
#27730645 - 04/11/22 06:57 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kickle said: I will not say the same in return.
I don't care, buddy. You're very much welcome in this thread.
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 7 hours
|
|
Buddhism and Buddhist literature.. is beatiful because it is precise and to the point.
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 7 hours
|
|
1/0
Off and on..
A phone handy?
Talking to God about Buddhist Zen!
A miracle of one container or another. Chesed.
The secret case is revealed in plain literature. Plain prose.
Metaphorically speaking. We see the butterfly that flaps its wings and creates a hurricane.
Like a roll of the dice.. 6 sided 6 dimensions..
|
Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
|

I'm listening
and you're right. I'm only confusing myself.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
|