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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineAnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
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Buddhist Epistemology * 2
    #27730327 - 04/11/22 02:07 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

For some time, scientists would ridicule the Dhamma, because the Buddha did not
make use of binary logic. Binary logic, also known as the principle of the
excluded middle, entails the notion that something can be true or false, and
nothing else. It is the foundation of mathematical logic, going back to
Aristotle, and also of computer technology. Instead, the Buddha would employ a
four-valued logic, where something can be true, false, both, or neither.

Then, in the 1960s, there emerged a new theory called relevant logic (non-
classical logic). Suddenly, the Buddha's approach became entirely mathematically
sound.

Both true and false means that there is more than one truth contained in
something, that it depends on the perspective. An example would be the problem
of free will. We are living in a deterministic universe, that means there is no
free will. On the other hand, even in a deterministic universe, you can do
whatever you want to do. Therefore, the existence of free will is both true and
false.

Neither means that we are in a paradigm where the dichotomy of true and false
does not apply. For example, there is the question whether a bodhicitta is
pleasant or unpleasant. The answer is: It is neither. Let me tell you: The
bodhicitta is about suffering, which is utterly terrible. There are beings who
get their eyes gouged out and their tongue and ears cut off. There are beings
who are getting raped. It is stupid tp consider the bodhicitta as pleasant or
unpleasant. That is entirely not what it's about. The way of the bodhisattva is
neither.

True means that one and one equals two. False means that three and four equals
five. Though I guess these two are a little bit obvious.

There is actually a fifth option, where something is none of the four. That
means the truth is not to be revealed (or cannot be spoken about). For example,
there is the question whether the Buddha entered Nirvana at physical death. He
didn't tell, he kept it a secret.

Here's a spoiler: The Buddha did not enter Nirvana. He hangs around among
supernatural beings somewhere. Buddhas usually do not enter Nirvana, because it
is too damn pleasant to be powerful. Besides, they have put a considerable
amount of work into their consciousness. As it says at the Mars University in
Futurama: "A Giant Pulsating Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste".


Edited by AnattaAtman (04/11/22 04:35 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #27730440 - 04/11/22 04:08 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Buddhas have done no work. That is an illusion. Buddhas have paid attention to what is happening and woken up. This whole thing stinks of a way to confuse.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
    #27730473 - 04/11/22 04:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Neither real nor unreal, but I think not the same, as well, with both real and unreal. Neither true nor false <> true and false. :smile:

I was reminded of how it's phrased in the Vedic source as only in the negatives, or could be my selective memory.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
    #27730477 - 04/11/22 04:36 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

rely less on the texts whenever possible. they hold truth but only to a degree. it must match with experience and if not, discard it. it will only mislead you. what is true now is immeasurably more important than any possible truth that could be. and if it's relevant later, you will experience it then.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Registered: 02/07/15
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
    #27730479 - 04/11/22 04:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Everything is void without each other :yinyang:

This was a good read :awesomenod:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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OfflineAnattaAtman
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Registered: 09/25/21
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
    #27730493 - 04/11/22 04:48 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Buddhas have done no work. That is an illusion. Buddhas have paid attention to what is happening and woken up.




Okay, that's Zen. I like it, but there are some serious issues with it. There
is a Mahayana Sutra where a bodhisattva becomes evil after having a satori
experience. That's the problem with emptiness. So much for waking up.

Quote:

This whole thing stinks of a way to confuse.




I'm sorry.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #27730497 - 04/11/22 04:50 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

You will not confuse me. You can not. You are welcome to be here. But do not confuse yourself.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
    #27730521 - 04/11/22 05:06 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Please be aware of the edit on the OP following my post. I can counter the new writing, but I think that your awareness of this fact is far more important. Just look at what is. The truth does not backtrack.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
    #27730523 - 04/11/22 05:08 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
rely less on the texts whenever possible. they hold truth but only to a degree. it must match with experience and if not, discard it. it will only mislead you. what is true now is more important than any possible truth that could be. and if it's relevant later, you will experience it then.




No like neither real nor unreal? The rest was my conjecture.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
    #27730524 - 04/11/22 05:09 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I think you are on a beautiful path. My comment was general advice to you :heart:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Last seen: 22 minutes
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #27730532 - 04/11/22 05:21 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

'Here's a spoiler: The Buddha did not enter Nirvana. He hangs around among
supernatural beings somewhere. Buddhas usually do not enter Nirvana, because it
is too damn pleasant to be powerful. Besides, they have put a considerable
amount of work into their consciousness. As it says at the Mars University in
Futurama: "A Giant Pulsating Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste". '

If Buddha were in Nirvana, could he answer? If he does answer, is he not? When I ask if he is, he just smiles and disappears. The question seems to quite amuse him.


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OfflineAnattaAtman
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Registered: 09/25/21
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #27730535 - 04/11/22 05:22 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

connectedcosmos said:
This was a good read :awesomenod:




Thanks.

I added a line at the end which I think is quite neat :smile:.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
    #27730537 - 04/11/22 05:25 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

just so syncro. it's a joke to think a Buddha is somewhere rather than eveywhere


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineAnattaAtman
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Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: syncro]
    #27730546 - 04/11/22 05:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
If Buddha were in Nirvana, could he answer? If he does answer, is he not? When I ask if he is, he just smiles and disappears. The question seems to quite amuse him.




Nirvana is the undifferentiated field of consciousness. Your subjective experience
dissolves, like a drop returning to the ocean. Does the drop still exist when it
has returned to the ocean? That's up for debate.

Something I have struggled with a little is the question if one can come back
from Nirvana. According to the Buddha, Nirvana is permanent. I wasn't so sure
about that. After all, consciousness has to come from somewhere, doesn't
it? I've come to the conclusion that Nirvana is mystical. It defies rational
thinking. There is very little which can be said about it.


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OfflineAnattaAtman
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Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
    #27730556 - 04/11/22 05:41 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
You will not confuse me. You can not.




I don't want to confuse you. I appreciate your opinion.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #27730558 - 04/11/22 05:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I will not say the same in return. Even if ultimately I very much love you. Value is in the eye of the beholder.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineAnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

Registered: 09/25/21
Posts: 377
Last seen: 16 days, 4 hours
Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: Kickle]
    #27730645 - 04/11/22 06:57 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I will not say the same in return.




I don't care, buddy. You're very much welcome in this thread.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: AnattaAtman]
    #27730740 - 04/11/22 08:08 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Buddhism and Buddhist literature.. is beatiful because it is precise and to the point.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27730744 - 04/11/22 08:12 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

1/0

Off and on..

A phone handy?

Talking to God about Buddhist Zen!

A miracle of one container or another. Chesed.

The secret case is revealed in plain literature. Plain prose.

Metaphorically speaking. We see the butterfly that flaps its wings and creates a hurricane.

Like a roll of the dice.. 6 sided 6 dimensions..


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Buddhist Epistemology [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27730781 - 04/11/22 08:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

:psychsplit:

I'm listening

and you're right. I'm only confusing myself.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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