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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27724712 - 04/07/22 03:35 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
... Episodic memory is just many linked frames of experience.
None of it is ever really accurate, because everything that happens that is similar is engramatically linked together. and overlapped.
we can slither back and forth episodically to try to make a clear point in time but it is only approximate at best.

otherwise, consider that you can have 6 perception events per second  more or less, expanding in fullness on one or many channel/topics, senses. and they fade into the short term memory bucket which is not exactly memory but rather the context that facilitates ongoing perception keeping on topic with what you are up to.




Exactly, so what we take to be both ourself and 'our' life is a very rough approximation, as every story depends on lots of memory to maintain continuity.

In other words what we take to be our life is an abstraction.
In other words what we take to be living is largely an abstraction, as our minds mix a lot of commentary with raw perceptions.

When we are engrossed in a book, with a story, we get involved with what is described or what is happening, and ignore everything that is left out.

In the case of a comic book, especially if we just randomly open it up near the middle and look at a page or 2 it is more obvious how much is left out, as our eyes move from frame to frame.

To keep stories and movies interesting going to the bathroom, and so on are left out, and much of life is actually very repetitious.

Since our personal stories, define how we see the world, and therefore what is possible for us, some view the ego as more of a prison than an asset. This is of course at odds with the current paradigm of self improvement in the US.

Those who take this view may regard death more as a liberation, than as an event to be feared.

Edited by laughingdog (04/07/22 03:36 PM)

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27724769 - 04/07/22 04:36 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

An approximation of what? An abstraction of what?
If that cannot be answered, then it cannot be declared as an abstraction or approximation IMO

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
    #27724813 - 04/07/22 05:19 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Approximation or abstraction of all experience constituting the life or identity? Laughingdog mentioned bathroom use, but I suppose there is a ton of mundane experience that get's left out.

I think also a memory is inherently an approximation of phenomena. For example, eating ice cream -vs- the memory of how good it tasted. Supposition, the memory isn't going to be as good as the real thing.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Rahz]
    #27724851 - 04/07/22 05:58 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Well memory is of course not equivalent to all experience or to life. It's pretty clearly a subset/piece?

Do you experience yourself as a memory?

If everything experienced is experienced as memory, then there would be no way to tell it as memory.

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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
    #27724957 - 04/07/22 07:44 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Do you experience yourself as a memory?





In so much as our identity is associated with the past, it can only be an approximation of that, and only pieces of it. Pieces of pieces of pieces.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
    #27724962 - 04/07/22 07:49 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
An approximation of what? An abstraction of what?
If that cannot be answered, then it cannot be declared as an abstraction or approximation IMO




When somebody asks: "how was your meal?"
and you say:"It was great."

Obviously all that has been communicated is an approximate reaction, and no detail whatsoever;
thus the "answer" is a very minimal abstraction.

Some people rate everything in terms of how much it cost.
Another form of very minimal abstraction.

You make it out to be some big mystery, but it isn't.
All descriptions of experiences, or experiencing are but a pale shadow of reality.
Other wise, we would all, just tell ourselves stories about some great sexual experience,
or a fantastic experience of downhill skiing, for example, and never bother to go skiing or romancing again, for example.

The statement is hardly controversial, and could perhaps more accurately be said to be trivial.

The point is simply that this is characteristic of all narratives, whether internal thoughts,
or conversational; and again this is hardly controversial, and could perhaps more accurately said to be a commonplace observation.

That next we build our views of reality upon our thoughts, has also been observed for thousands of years.

And if the thoughts are inaccurate approximations...Etc. ...

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Rahz]
    #27725022 - 04/07/22 08:29 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Do you experience yourself as a memory?





In so much as our identity is associated with the past, it can only be an approximation of that, and only pieces of it. Pieces of pieces of pieces.




Weird. So you don't think that experiencing identity is, in itself, you? But rather the much smaller part, the identity, is?

I think this is where I keep getting stuck and can't grok what you all are saying. And I must not know how to express it in any meaningful way. But, how can one be aware of memory, if that awareness is itself a memory?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27725025 - 04/07/22 08:32 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
An approximation of what? An abstraction of what?
If that cannot be answered, then it cannot be declared as an abstraction or approximation IMO




When somebody asks: "how was your meal?"
and you say:"It was great."

Obviously all that has been communicated is an approximate reaction, and no detail whatsoever;
thus the "answer" is a very minimal abstraction.

Some people rate everything in terms of how much it cost.
Another form of very minimal abstraction.

You make it out to be some big mystery, but it isn't.
All descriptions of experiences, or experiencing are but a pale shadow of reality.
Other wise, we would all, just tell ourselves stories about some great sexual experience,
or a fantastic experience of downhill skiing, for example, and never bother to go skiing or romancing again, for example.

The statement is hardly controversial, and could perhaps more accurately be said to be trivial.

The point is simply that this is characteristic of all narratives, whether internal thoughts,
or conversational; and again this is hardly controversial, and could perhaps more accurately said to be a commonplace observation.

That next we build our views of reality upon our thoughts, has also been observed for thousands of years.

And if the thoughts are inaccurate approximations...Etc. ...




It's a mystery to me. I don't buy into the idea that I am the things you've described. I can "approximate" that. But I also don't buy into the idea that those things are other than me either. Another approximation.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
    #27725250 - 04/08/22 05:17 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

several of my friends have died.
they are a big part of me still.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,695
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27725255 - 04/08/22 05:27 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
:hereyougo:




20-30 minutes of meditation a day

:hereyougo:


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27725256 - 04/08/22 05:28 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

hahaha almost rotfl

DO IIIIT

just do it


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27725309 - 04/08/22 06:54 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

40 mostly


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Posts: 4,829
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27725341 - 04/08/22 07:31 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

42

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27725342 - 04/08/22 07:33 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
several of my friends have died.
they are a big part of me still.




yeah mon



--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlinead10dxmnewportbich
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Registered: 04/07/22
Posts: 8
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
    #27725389 - 04/08/22 08:23 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

when you die? who says we are ever going to die anyway? Been a harlot been a queen I've survived for seven hundred years and I still look seventeen....

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: ad10dxmnewportbich]
    #27725399 - 04/08/22 08:41 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Been murdered been a killer, been dropped in a gutter and left to sputter. Keep me going?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: John]
    #27726502 - 04/08/22 11:25 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

John said:
???

Just wondering what some of you guys think, sorry if there have been a million of these threads already, but if there has, well peoples precptions change all the time. maybe some of you have a diffrent idea than you had last time you anwsered the question. thanks for any replies :stoned:

oh yeah you don't have to get into every detail I know sometimes peoples beliefs are hard to express through writing and what not and sometimes just go on a understanding or gut feeling you have, just a general idea of what you think :sun:




Return to whole. Not as an experience, but as an energy. I can speculate: maybe it feels great? Feelings are from my nerve endings mostly, and partially artifical.
I cease to be, perhaps I cease. Nothingness. Timelessness, spaceless. Existence outside of spacetime. Unexplainable/Speculatable/Experiencable.

You/I/We are human, a brain responding to nerve endings. We can't know.

You know the old thing from Tyson? A cup of the ocean doesnt represent the whole? How could we know?





Be what you are. Die. Be a thing again. We are all one thing, being itself. 
In short, Bill Hicks nailed it in his bit about a positive LSD story.



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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27726511 - 04/08/22 11:31 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
An approximation of what? An abstraction of what?
If that cannot be answered, then it cannot be declared as an abstraction or approximation IMO




When somebody asks: "how was your meal?"
and you say:"It was great."

Obviously all that has been communicated is an approximate reaction, and no detail whatsoever;
thus the "answer" is a very minimal abstraction.

Some people rate everything in terms of how much it cost.
Another form of very minimal abstraction.

You make it out to be some big mystery, but it isn't.
All descriptions of experiences, or experiencing are but a pale shadow of reality.
Other wise, we would all, just tell ourselves stories about some great sexual experience,
or a fantastic experience of downhill skiing, for example, and never bother to go skiing or romancing again, for example.

The statement is hardly controversial, and could perhaps more accurately be said to be trivial.

The point is simply that this is characteristic of all narratives, whether internal thoughts,
or conversational; and again this is hardly controversial, and could perhaps more accurately said to be a commonplace observation.

That next we build our views of reality upon our thoughts, has also been observed for thousands of years.

And if the thoughts are inaccurate approximations...Etc. ...




You're not wrong. But it is indeed trivial.


Even a rock can be put on a pedastal, but its just a rock.
Don't hyperfixate on the inane. While everything is indeed meaninful, some deserts truly are barren.

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Offlinepsilocybinmansions
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Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Tropism]
    #27727688 - 04/09/22 05:14 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

What you are experiencing now as wakefulness goes nowhere in death.

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
Re: What happens when you die? [Re: Kickle]
    #27728504 - 04/10/22 09:04 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Do you experience yourself as a memory?





In so much as our identity is associated with the past, it can only be an approximation of that, and only pieces of it. Pieces of pieces of pieces.




Weird. So you don't think that experiencing identity is, in itself, you? But rather the much smaller part, the identity, is?

I think this is where I keep getting stuck and can't grok what you all are saying. And I must not know how to express it in any meaningful way. But, how can one be aware of memory, if that awareness is itself a memory?




Hmm, well awareness isn't a memory but memory may be something in awareness. In that sense we are more the awareness itself. Identity too, to whatever degree it's based on memory (the past) is something that is transient in awareness. There is utility of some kind in identity but it probably shouldn't be taken as objective fact beyond whatever the utility is. Not sure if that's what you're getting at.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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