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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27814528 - 06/11/22 11:36 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
You literally voted for Trump after a decades long run of voting Green, and I'm sure you'll vote for him again if he runs another time. Just fucking drop the whole "I don't even like Trump" schtick because everyone here knows you're a fanboy.



I'd have easily voted for Bernie over Trump, but Trump was better than Biden.  No, I'm definitely not a fanboy, I just add context to your many deceptive posts.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Regardless, branding a longstanding ally as a threat in order to unilaterally push through one-sided economic policy that flies in the face of pre-existing agreements isn't "getting along with other world powers" - that's an antagonistic approach, even with your context.



The reason the world is struggling economically right now is because we've become very reliant on one another, and it's not easy to just cut one country off without causing harm if you've become dependent on that country's products.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27814544 - 06/11/22 11:44 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

What was deceptive about asking how Trump’s well-documented antagonistic approach to Canada-USA diplomacy jibes with your claim that Trump was "interested in getting along with other world powers"?

Even with your context, his approach was antagonistic rather than cooperative or collaborative. Antagonism is not "getting along with others".


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27814567 - 06/11/22 12:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
What was deceptive about asking how Trump’s well-documented antagonistic approach to Canada-USA diplomacy jibes with your claim that Trump was "interested in getting along with other world powers"?



This had nothing to do with "getting along with Canada".  It was about protecting America’s steel and aluminum industries, so we wouldn't become reliant on foreign production.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Even with your context, his approach was antagonistic rather than cooperative or collaborative. Antagonism is not "getting along with others".



If that's how you want to view tariffs, fine.  But I think "antagonistic relationship" is too strong.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27814612 - 06/11/22 12:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

It wasn't just tariffs - Trump started a trade war with Canada, that included  rhetoric claiming cooperation with a long-standing ally posed a national security threat, and that unilateral tariffs would continue to be imposed until Canada renegotiated "one-sided" trade deals that "harm" the American people. That is an antagonistic approach, not a cooperative one.

That's not even my own choice of words. Trump’s trade policy has since been examined with the benefit of hindsight, and his claims about national security and protecting the American public fell flat, while the antagonistic approach has left longstanding damage to Canada-USA diplomatic relations.

Stop chugging that Trump Kool-Aid for just a moment:

Did Trump’s tariffs benefit American workers and national security?
Quote:

Did tariffs help the US negotiate better trade agreements?

When negotiating trade agreements, countries want partners whose policies are stable and predictable, with the goal of establishing a long-term, win-win partnership. Trump’s eagerness to resort to tariffs, including in relations with close allies, has made the U.S. a less desirable trade partner for other countries.





Quote:

Did tariffs improve American national security?

The national security case for tariffs on steel and aluminum is even murkier: while there may be a case for ensuring domestic production capacity for these commodities, it isn’t clear tariffs are the best instrument (or that they even achieve this goal). These tariffs antagonized many of America’s closest security partners, particularly Canada, which undermined efforts to cultivate a broader multilateral alliance to challenge China. Moreover, the Trump administration’s frequent recourses to national security on flimsy grounds will make it more difficult for the U.S. to push back when other countries cloak protectionism in tenuous appeals to national security.




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27814643 - 06/11/22 01:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Once again, if you want to view tariffs as antagonistic, fine.  I never even gave my opinion about tariffs as a means for protecting America’s steel and aluminum industries; I was simply adding context to a deceptive statement.

If you have to call it "chugging that Trump Kool-Aid" to make yourself feel better about it, that's a shame.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27814679 - 06/11/22 02:01 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Did I say tariffs are antagonistic, or did I refer to "Trump’s antagonistic relationship with Canada"? An antagonistic approach that included, but was not limited to, tariffs.

Trump wasn't "someone interested in getting along with other world powers" - that's a fanboy lie. Canada-USA diplomatic relations during his presidency provide a clear example. Duck out of here with your accusations of deceptive statements, when you're out here pretending I'm talking about economic policy rather than Trump’s antagonistic rhetoric underpinning that economic policy - antagonistic rhetoric to such an extent that its been evaluated academically: Verbal Aggression Between Allies: Canada in Donald Trump’s Trade War Rhetoric


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27814689 - 06/11/22 02:12 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

So your article confirms exactly what I said.  :shrug:

Trump has always been criticized for going against establishment policy.

Edit:  As I've already said, if you want to call tariffs intended to return jobs to America and protect our vital industries antagonistic, fine.  I was just adding the context that you omitted.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/11/22 02:39 PM)


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27814740 - 06/11/22 03:00 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Stop lying.

I never said tariffs are inherently antagonistic - that's a red herring you introduced to this exchange. I referred to "Trump’s antagonistic relationship with Canada" that contrasted with your lie that Trump is "someone interested in getting along with other world powers."

You don't adopt an antagonistic stance if you're interested in getting along with others - and that entire article is discussing Trump’s aggressive and antagonistic approach to Canada-USA diplomatic relations.

Stop lying.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27814743 - 06/11/22 03:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So your article confirms exactly what I said.  :shrug:




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You'll have to better explain what it is you think I don't understand.  Generic comments like the above are no better than 'you're a big fat poo poo head'."




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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27814750 - 06/11/22 03:05 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Remember when Trump literally called Haiti and African nations "shithole countries?"  I guess they don't count as "world powers," so they're fair game


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #27814768 - 06/11/22 03:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Or his antagonistic stance towards Cuba and Iran - in both cases, reversing the limited diplomatic advances that had occurred during the previous presidential regime, and once again accompanied with aggressive rhetoric.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27814825 - 06/11/22 04:10 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Stop lying.

I never said tariffs are inherently antagonistic - that's a red herring you introduced to this exchange. I referred to "Trump’s antagonistic relationship with Canada" that contrasted with your lie that Trump is "someone interested in getting along with other world powers."

You don't adopt an antagonistic stance if you're interested in getting along with others - and that entire article is discussing Trump’s aggressive and antagonistic approach to Canada-USA diplomatic relations.

Stop lying.



So if it wasn't tariffs that were inherently antagonistic, what was it then?  All I saw in the article you gave me was tariffs and protectionist policies meant to help the US.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27814830 - 06/11/22 04:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Remember when Trump literally called Haiti and African nations "shithole countries?"  I guess they don't count as "world powers," so they're fair game





A refreshing change of pace to have someone say the quiet part out loud.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27814831 - 06/11/22 04:14 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Remember when Trump literally called Haiti and African nations "shithole countries?"  I guess they don't count as "world powers," so they're fair game




Do you consider them world powers?  :shrug:

This started because I said "Imagine that.  Someone interested in getting along with other world powers.  No wonder he was hated."


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #27814955 - 06/11/22 05:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

He was hated because he's a racist blowhard who made the country look stupid and weak.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #27815004 - 06/11/22 06:10 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Hated for being interested in getting along with other world powers... Giving off some serious 'they hate us for our freedom' vibes.




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Enlil]
    #27815008 - 06/11/22 06:12 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
He was hated because he's a racist blowhard who made the country look stupid and weak.



According to The Blind Ass's remark that started this, he was hated for being interested in getting along with Russia.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27815011 - 06/11/22 06:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I don't see that remark, please quote it rather than put words in other people's moufs.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27815036 - 06/11/22 06:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...they (Russia) probably correctly assumed that his dumb arrogant ass would inadvertently end up helping them naturally just by being himself anyways.



Why was he upset that Trump would help them?  Is there a rule that you always must be opposed to Russia?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Donald Trump sues Hillary Clinton over RussiaGate [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27815147 - 06/11/22 07:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
I could imagine Russia not needing to work very hard to get Trump to work for them “officially” because they probably correctly assumed that his dumb arrogant ass would inadvertently end up helping them naturally just by being himself anyways.  A couple invisible love taps here a couple well placed well timed choice words there and that was all that was needed.  Anything else was just the Cherry on top.




Just an opinion piece. :thumbup:


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