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OfflineShrooms4menow
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Registered: 01/31/22
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Acid Communism
    #27689750 - 03/10/22 12:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I have a proposal. We all know communism is a filed idea, but what i we only applied it to de-industrialisation. We take all the abandoned factories closed by mega-corporations and open them back up under state control. Whenevera company decides to abandon heir factories, we take them and simply have the state run them. If they try to move to another country to avoid paying taxes, same thing- take it. Dont even pay them. Just take the factories.

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OfflineSporeJunkie
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: Shrooms4menow]
    #27689761 - 03/10/22 12:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yay theft!


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Offlineasterix
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #27689878 - 03/10/22 03:11 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

The only thieves in this scenario are the industrialists and financial capitalists who have control over the means of production and use them for their own neurotic power games internal to their class, instead of for the good of society.

OP has a great idea, and it's been tried in Latin America to a certain extent.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: asterix]
    #27689888 - 03/10/22 03:20 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

This would lead to companies treating the government like a free garbage disposal service.

You know how many companies in the US are currently sitting on land that they will never sell because it is so extremely polluted? They cannot allow the government (or anyone that can measure pollution) onto the property under any circumstances, and that's why the land sits unused.

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: Kryptos]
    #27689931 - 03/10/22 03:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Brownfield recovery is pretty common though.


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OfflineShrooms4menow
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #27689990 - 03/10/22 04:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Who would be stolen from? Some multinational corporation with no particular owner, which isnt even registered in this country- and doesnt even want the factory? How is it theirs? Who even are these people?

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OfflineShrooms4menow
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: asterix]
    #27689993 - 03/10/22 05:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Is tht why Brazil is doing better andbetter?

Maybe they should form a bloc of their own when we collapse- hey will still have industry.

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: Shrooms4menow]
    #27690007 - 03/10/22 05:14 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shrooms4menow said:
Who would be stolen from? Some multinational corporation with no particular owner, which isnt even registered in this country- and doesnt even want the factory? How is it theirs? Who even are these people?




A local defaulted company donated their brownfield land to the city, the city reclaimed it which included mitigation of the hazardous materials and contaminated soils. The urban development commission then sold the real-estate and it was developed into mixed use housing and store fronts. In my city this is a pretty common theme as perhaps the most iconic of the rust belt cities.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: christopera]
    #27690009 - 03/10/22 05:19 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Brownfield recovery is pretty common though.




I personally know of at least two corporate properties in the US that should probably have the local residents evacuated due to pollution. Brownfield isn't nearly enough.

You can generally identify such sites by looking at local life expectancy and watching the dips. This is actually becoming more pronounced over the last few years, because with the price of housingover the last two decades, Americans are moving around less.

The two I know of I have actual soil data. I'm also very NDA'd on both of them. Actually, I'd guess that one of them is somewhat close to you.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: Kryptos]
    #27690095 - 03/10/22 06:35 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

An NDA that prevents you from disclosing a public health risk is unenforceable


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: Enlil]
    #27690178 - 03/10/22 08:04 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I also don't want to get Vindman'd.

Most of these have ended up in the news at some point or another, they just don't stay there for very long.

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OfflineWhiteThumbScience
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: Shrooms4menow]
    #27702077 - 03/20/22 04:28 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I think your lacking basic understanding of equilibrium economics my friend not to rag on you at all but that wouldn't lead to any benefits in our economic system!

Now I will say you mentioned communism is a failed economic system and coming from a strong capitalism supporter I say how do you know that?

True Marxist or Leninist ideas were never tested! It requires late stage capitalist concentration to take place first in a post industrial capitalism nation?

What we do know is that capitalism is in broad terms simply the default system of freedom! Command and control economics by the very definition is not free!!!


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InvisibleApostleofAzathoth
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Re: Acid Communism [Re: WhiteThumbScience]
    #27706318 - 03/23/22 10:42 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I think your lacking basic understanding of equilibrium economics my friend not to rag on you at all but that wouldn't lead to any benefits in our economic system!



I've got a question. What determines the price of commodities in a state of market equilibrium?

Quote:

Now I will say you mentioned communism is a failed economic system and coming from a strong capitalism supporter I say how do you know that?



And I would say you DON'T know that. How exactly did the soviet union go from being a feudal nation of mostly peasants to a global space-faring superpower in 44 years if their economic system was a failure?

Quote:

True Marxist or Leninist ideas were never tested! It requires late stage capitalist concentration to take place first in a post industrial capitalism nation?



This was the precise rationale behind the Russian New Economic Plan under Lenin and the Chinese market reforms under Deng. Obviously there is never going to be an opportunity to see how communism would have looked if Marx had been right about the revolution in Europe, but saying this makes really existing socialist states somehow "not real Marxists or Leninists" is to severely confuse the prescriptive and predictive elements of Marxist thought.

Quote:

What we do know is that capitalism is in broad terms simply the default system of freedom!



That's right. Freedom is when you spend 8 hours a day doing whatever your boss tells you to do. Freedom is when you can be fired for any reason at any time and if you haven't found a new job by the time your bank account hits zero you won't have anything to eat. Freedom is when you have to send the majority of your wages to your landlord, your rent is subject to increase at any given time, and if you fail to pay rent men with guns (financed by your taxes) will arrive and drag you out of your home. Freedom is when whoever has the biggest collection of mundane objects gets to dictate how the rest of us spend our days. This makes sense.

Edited by ApostleofAzathoth (03/23/22 10:59 PM)

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