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OfflineGrav
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I have enlightment
    #2768609 - 06/06/04 12:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If there was a true spiritual path, how far beyond these dead symbols and cliches do you think it would go?

I'm experiencing a bit of angst lately towards anyone who proclaims spiritual enlightenment - anyone who thinks they've transcended the fact that 'we do what we do to meet our own selfish needs'.

I think one can experience moments of true harmony and one-ness with life...
But It always seems to come back to protecting your investment. That is the constant.

In conclusion, I'm not doubting the presence of beauty, only anyone's proclamation to be able to harbor a shred of it, or reproduce it.

We're witnesses.


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OfflineEgoTripping
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Grav]
    #2768938 - 06/06/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think you can reach true enlightment in a standard society of suburban living. Maybe if you had a lot of free time.

I don't aim to reach true enlightment, and if I even came close, I doubt I'd go around telling people. I don't think true enlightment can even be described in words, since the entire idea of one-ness transcends language in how you understand it.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Grav]
    #2769053 - 06/06/04 03:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Grow some heart, Grav! Sheesh did you really say "anyone's proclamation to be able to harbor a shred of it" with regards to beauty?

Come on you harbor at least a shred of beauty; don't deny it! We all do, and to be blind to that is a big hurdle IMO.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Strumpling]
    #2769826 - 06/06/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You cannot say someone has not reached enlightment. It is a completely personal introverted concept. IF he says he has reached enlightment, then he has. You are not the judge of that.

peace and love.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: psikooz]
    #2769835 - 06/06/04 08:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

IF he says he has reached enlightment, then he has.

Or he is deluding himself :wink:

At any rate: you are correct...we must all be our own judges when it comes to enlightenment.


--------------------
BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: trendal]
    #2769887 - 06/06/04 08:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Or he is lying. There are many more people who will claim they are enlightened, than there are actual enlightened people. Enlightenment requires an entire lifestyle, and it's much easier to just meditate a bit, relax, get a few quick cool thoughts and then claim to your friends you've become enlightened.

As with all things, except with liars. There are far few people who will claim they're not liars, than there are liars  :smirk:

Of course, if they claim they're liars, are they telling the truth?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Ravus]
    #2769918 - 06/06/04 09:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There are many more people who will claim they are enlightened, than there are actual enlightened people
How do you know there are any enlightened people at all? How do you measure enlightenment?
Wtf is it? Is it when you've transcended your earthly body so fully that you don't care if you're mauled and eaten by a lion?

I understand healthy mental balance... but that's just taking care of your mind and body with favorable nutrition and stimuli. How does anything exceed that, and how can it be viewed as exceeding or 'transcending', when it would simply just be a change.. for better or for worse completely subjective to the individual?

I just realized this is a useless debate, as are all subjective experiences.

I can't stand people who think they've found a way for more people than themselves. That's all I really wanted to say.


peace


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OfflineGrav
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Strumpling]
    #2769933 - 06/06/04 09:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Strumpling, you got me. I do feel a certain familiar positive vibrancy in me... but it's nothing I'd ever want to consciously try and bring out or control or direct or define... as far as I'm concerned it is a life of its own inside of me, and I will never be its master, and it will never sell me short by making me feel like I've attained an answer to something.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Grav]
    #2769947 - 06/06/04 09:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well of course would assuming that enlightened people exist, according to human nature of other matters this would seem to be the case (and seeing the phonies out there who call themselves enlightened yet I can still see them even more stressed out than I am.) The reason I believe that a very rare person can be enlightened is because I have found the clarity of mindset one can achieve through meditation, and if one rid themselves of all desires and went with the flow of the universe, meditation could easily be one step to go to the realms we call enlightenment, a completely clear mindset of sorts. Enlightenment has been one my goals that I've based many others on, it'd be quite a disappointment if it turned out that even the Buddha was a phony, but it seems unlikely


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Ravus]
    #2769971 - 06/06/04 09:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So enlightenment is the liberation of any negative thought, and a crystal clear state of mind.
Enlightenment is the lack of something, rather than the attainment of something.
Or the attainment of a lacking...
Ok, I can deal with that.

Ha ha...
man Im hungry.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Grav]
    #2770724 - 06/07/04 03:34 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Woman plunges to death from M1 bridge

Three lanes of the M1 were closed for nine hours after a woman plunged to her death from a bridge.

The woman, who has not been named, fell from the bridge just before Junction 20, north of Rugby, shortly after 8pm last night.

Police said her body was hit by up to 10 vehicles and all three lanes of the southbound carriageway were closed until 5am this morning while officers examined the scene.

Officers were alerted to the incident after a member of the public contacted them and the road was closed shortly after 8pm.

A police spokeswoman said: "The death is not being treated as suspicious and we are not looking for anyone else in connection with the inquiry.

"All three lanes of the carriageway were blocked by debris and it took some time for the area to be cleared."

It is believed that the incident may have been a suicide.

A post-mortem examination will be held but it is not yet known where or when this will take place.


Closer to the light
Closer to the light
Shove her
Over railing


Damn Grav! You got away with it you little stinker.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Swami]
    #2771030 - 06/07/04 10:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

hit by 10 vehicles?
damn, you'd think a human corpse on a highway would stand out a little better..


my signature is actually Deftones lyrics.of the song MX

when I hear them I picture this snobby plastic super-modellish girl standing by a railing of an upper-story of a fashion mall or something, wearing a shitload of makeup and a big fake smile for the cameras. and she's a prized possession to you because she serves your lust and you know she's hard to get and she makes you feel like a celebrity, so you're like her slave pretty much and you cater to her every need, but deep down on the inside you'd love to just give her a push and watch her body and her entire fake self plummet 5 stories and crumble on the floor below.

what an enlightening experience it would be


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Grav]
    #2771083 - 06/07/04 10:45 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

> I'm experiencing a bit of angst lately towards anyone who proclaims spiritual enlightenment - anyone who thinks they've transcended the fact that 'we do what we do to meet our own selfish needs'.

I've said this in the past, but it fits... the difference between knowing the path and being the path.

Anyone who proclaims spiritual enlightenment, obviously isn't. However, that does not preclude one from transcending beyond duality... however, the moment they become aware of the experience, they return to a dualistic mindset...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: Seuss]
    #2771582 - 06/07/04 02:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone who proclaims spiritual enlightenment, obviously isn't.




Agree. I believe one of the stages to enlightenment is to become humble, to control ones ego, that's why you don't know about many truly enlightened people, maybe only when dealing with real close experiences.
Enlightened people are not heroes or icons one should follow, they are only people which have answered and validated all their existential questions. It's a personal discovery through the path of knowledge, without the need for proclamation to others but to the whole universe, in silence ....

Quote:

"Having seen how lucidly and logically certain madmen justify their lunatic ideas to themselves and to others, I can never again be sure of the lucidness of my lucidity... "



F. Pessoa

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlineillusions
peace not greed
Registered: 11/11/03
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Re: I have enlightment [Re: psikooz]
    #2775412 - 06/08/04 07:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

anyone who claims he has reached enlightenment has obviously not reached it. 

why?  because, first of all, enlightenment is not something to be reached by anyone, it is the opposite.  enlightenment is realizing that we are more than just individuals with bodies and minds. 

second of all, nobody reaches enlightenment, because in truth, there isnt anyone at all. No individuals, no duality.  just one being that IS, if that sort of explains it. 
so when someone claims to have reached enlightenment, they clearly haven't.

that's my minds point of view anyway.
hope that helps.
peace late.
:tongue2:


--------------------
we were born into the world of nature.
when we die, we are born into the world of spirit.


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