|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 1
#27684357 - 03/05/22 09:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
structure-level issue (as validated by various construct analyses; I.e., statistical analyses of structure-level data
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 2
#27684371 - 03/05/22 09:24 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
K boomer 
No hard feelings hey?
Edited by Rhizomorph (03/05/22 09:28 PM)
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 3
#27684376 - 03/05/22 09:36 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: And what I wrote wasn’t just regurgitated woke code religion. I’ve always been radical.
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: White people are fucking awesome. The rest of the world is our bitches.
*Demonstrating writing capabilities and not regurgitating religion intensifies*
Oh god... I'm participating in the childishness... what have you done?? 
This is what I get for thinking I could have a reasonable conversation with someone whose profile picture is of a dude squeezing some chicks ass 
Anyways I'm gonna peace out from this conversation. I have actual adult peers who have the means to make a difference in their fields of work by maturely discussing these issues and conducting research that takes culture into account. Not sure why I'm wasting my time on you 
Thanks for setting an example - see points 1, 2 & 3 of the OP
Edited by Rhizomorph (03/05/22 10:00 PM)
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27684395 - 03/05/22 09:59 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
K boomer
Im gen x
Quote:
I have actual adult peers who have the means to make a difference in their fields of work by maturely discussing these issues and conducting research that takes culture into account
Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: KROM] 1
#27684408 - 03/05/22 10:07 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
KROM said: I needed to/ need to read this. Posting so I can remember where to look when I’m less sleepy.
Glad to hear it has brought you insight!
|
Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,258
Last seen: 9 hours, 18 minutes
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 4
#27685220 - 03/06/22 03:12 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
K boomer
Im gen x
Ok Karen.
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Kryptos]
#27685295 - 03/06/22 04:16 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Y’all need to stop trying to appropriate the black power struggle. It’s not yours.
Once whitey gets into it they bleach it and destroy it every fucking time.
Black people don’t need your help. You serve black people better admitting you can’t be an ally.
When it comes down to the fight for resources shelter and protection you will always embrace your white skin. Instead of hiding behind Foucault or Kierkegaard or pretending you’re down with Fred Hampton just be honest.
You care about you and yours and everything else is a big fucking fantasy.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 4
#27685296 - 03/06/22 04:18 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: When it comes down to the fight for resources shelter and protection you will always embrace your white skin. Instead of hiding behind Foucault or Kierkegaard or pretending you’re down with Fred Hampton just be honest.
You care about you and yours and everything else is a big fucking fantasy.
Who hurt you?
When we take ownership of our pains and struggles and recognize that not everyone is out to get us, it becomes a lot easier to stop seeing the world through a dog eat dog mentality
If there's one thing I learned above all else, it's that emotionally mature people tend to not assume extremely pessimistic black & white worldviews. Indeed, as a training psychotherapist, a staple of cognitive therapy is addressing how cognitive distortions give rise to suffering (such as anger).
I'm sorry for whatever you are going through. Truly 
If you ever need somebody to talk to, feel free to PM me. I'm happy to put aside any of the negative tensions in the content of this conversation. I'm sure in many other regards we can see the humanity in each other - the internet does strange things to how we regard others
Lets try to stay positive hey? A tolerance for uncertainty & differing perspectives goes a long way...
Edited by Rhizomorph (12/27/22 10:58 PM)
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph] 2
#27685367 - 03/06/22 05:31 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Goddamn that was white af
Quote:
stop seeing the world through a dog eat dog mentality
Quote:
It is also too common for underground psychedelic service providers to appropriate various cultures' symbols, beliefs, practices, etc. into a cultural hodgepodge for the setting of the psychedelic experience they are providing.
What I’m seeing here is that you want to police some hippy white woman for how she trips on peyote in the desert. Tell her that her entire non-violent well-intentioned lifestyle causes literal harm because she wears feathers or sleeps in a teepee or whatever petty shit. No matter how much padding you put on it with your academic language it’s aggressive as shit to turn her into a symbol of the oppressor. And to make it even more disgusting, you totally lack the humility to admit that the way you speak and write is intensely alienating to pretty much everyone outside your cohort.
The constant fucking finger pointing and self-righteousness is seriously mind boggling.
I mean look at your thread title. Pointing out every perceived flaw with your judgmental attitude.
Quote:
as a training psychotherapist
stay in your lane
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph] 5
#27688128 - 03/08/22 11:07 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rhizomorph said:
Quote:
TheDrake said:
The key is that profits should flow downwards from integrity first and foremost
That's the problem. Profiteers do NOT let ANYTHING "flow down". There is no integrity with them. Greed and power are killing the world.
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: tyrannicalrex] 1
#27688554 - 03/09/22 11:41 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I've met plenty of people who are working in for-profit companies who want to see ethical business models, but too often they have to suck the little toe of the man above, cut ethical corners to abide by legally binding contracts with investors, or to compete with other businesses.
The issue is not that there is no integrity at all - it is the overgrowth of greed mixed with policies that maintain the dominance of that greed over integrity. Neoliberalism needs reform to the extent that greed overpowers integrity.
So many would probably just discredit me as a socialist though...
Edited by Rhizomorph (03/09/22 11:41 AM)
|
tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph] 2
#27688572 - 03/09/22 12:07 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rhizomorph said: cut ethical corners to abide by legally binding contracts with investors, or to compete with other businesses.
That's just it. They don't HAVE to "cut ethical corners", they choose to and justify it by saying that. What, they have to be greedy to compete with other greedy people just because, that's why?  Corporate greed and just plain greed is killing the world, period. Who in the FUCK needs over a billion fucking bucks? Or even a few million? Even one million? Why the fuck can't a company that makes 5 million make 2-3 million instead and pay people a living fucking wage? Greed, that's why. Why can't a company that makes a mill make a half mill instead? Greed.
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: tyrannicalrex] 2
#27688901 - 03/09/22 06:25 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:
Rhizomorph said: cut ethical corners to abide by legally binding contracts with investors, or to compete with other businesses.
That's just it. They don't HAVE to "cut ethical corners", they choose to and justify it by saying that. What, they have to be greedy to compete with other greedy people just because, that's why?  Corporate greed and just plain greed is killing the world, period. Who in the FUCK needs over a billion fucking bucks? Or even a few million? Even one million? Why the fuck can't a company that makes 5 million make 2-3 million instead and pay people a living fucking wage? Greed, that's why. Why can't a company that makes a mill make a half mill instead? Greed.
I suppose it depends how you define "have to" and who in particular you're talking about.
When I say "have to" I mean there are major structural constraints to the individual's autonomy, specifically for low-wage/low-level workers. Many of the workers in lower-wage positions have to agree to the company's economic policy, or they risk losing their jobs or opportunity for upwards mobility.
Major CEO's and investors certainly don't "have to" do anything technically (they have the material means to withstand economic punishments) and I agree they should pay their workers a greater minimum wage. As much as it is unethical, even CEOs have legally binding contracts where they are expected to pay low wages for the benefit of the investors. They "have to" extract/exploit millions from their workers' labour or their investors risk pulling out or suing the company which would destroy it. Could they let their company die? Yes. But the prospect of making millions versus losing your job & income is highly coercive.
This is why I also highlight the harmful outcomes of neoliberalism. Neoliberalism is the economic policy that allows (or really ensures) that investors can sue. Indeed, if ethical/data-driven restraints to neoliberalism were implemented, capitalists wouldn't be forced into these structural positions where they have to choose between exploiting workers/making millions or losing their jobs.
It is absurd how capitalism simultaneously has binding contracts that keep millionaires exploiting people while also giving them disproportional benefits for doing so.
The CEOs are terrible, but it is also a policy issue and we need to recognize how lower classes are coerced by the structure as well. More often than not, capitalists are able to influence policy to maintain neoliberalism. Employees on the other hand often "have to" maintain the structure for subsistence or job security, while having little influence on policy decisions. What I want to see is not only CEO's paying reparations (as you imply), but also CEOs & lower classes voting/lobbying for policy reform.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to tie apart the nuances.
Edited by Rhizomorph (09/25/22 04:00 PM)
|
tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph] 3
#27688932 - 03/09/22 07:07 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
 Great response, thanks. It's a circle jerk of greed that started a loooong time ago and just keeps going. Who/what company will be the one to stop it? Not one is my guess because they would be forced out of business for being too competitive and undercutting everyone else is what I read somewhere some time ago. (I have no links or source for this claim) Will the government or other people/companies/ceo's etc force other companies to take less? HELL FUCK no! That would defeat the sole purpose of capitalism. There's a "they're all doing it and it's what's in place. Fuck you I got mine/I'm getting mine and you can too" attitude with the whole fucking thing and it's sickening. *SIGH*
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: tyrannicalrex] 1
#27689109 - 03/09/22 09:30 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
True that
|
Chhinnamasta
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/22
Posts: 47
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 1
#27689535 - 03/10/22 09:02 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Yea or what about the ultimate appropriation, learning a different language? I am I allowed to do that. Do I have to check in with someone first to see if that is ok?
What about going out in the sun with no shirt and getting a tan?
This is all just Hegelian (Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel) nonsense spewed by unthinking people who don't even know they are just repeating the thoughts of an intellectual charlatan who had been done away with but has been making a huge unfortunate come back.
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said: I’ve read Foucault
White people invented the automobile. White people invented the airplane.
I’m sick of other races appropriating our shit. They should just fucking walk.
Or, maybe, we could just borrow and enjoy each other’s culture and quit pretending it causes harm.
White guy wears a doorag. Omg what a shameful appropriation. Hippy wears Indian shit. Thief!
Just the way your post is such a bunch of word salad gooblygook tells me you’re doing mental gymnastics to justify getting uptight about nothing. But before you respond I get it, white people bad. I’ve heard. 
|
Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Chhinnamasta] 1
#27690495 - 03/11/22 03:02 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chhinnamasta said: Yea or what about the ultimate appropriation, learning a different language? I am I allowed to do that. Do I have to check in with someone first to see if that is ok?
This is a good point (although the sarcasm is unnecessary). I would argue that the harms of cultural appropriation listed in the article I shared before don't really apply to languages given the differential power relations. Unlike appropriating say, clothing or symbols, which is easy to do and marked by historical power relations, learning a language is hard, and when English speakers do so, it allows greater opportunity for the subaltern to resist being assimilated into the English hegemony (thus avoiding misrecognition). Historically and currently, power has been maintained through English speakers not learning other languages. This is extremely evident in state nation-building strategies that promote a dominant english speaking identity (over colonized identities/languages). Always asking "how do global/systemic power relations contextualize this?" can help to tease apart these nuances.
This is why the authors identify that not all forms of cultural appropriation are harmful. Cultural appropriation gets a bad rep because the majority of it happens to be harmful due to these power relations.
Another thought that I have is that languages can be harmfully appropriated if the person learning the language uses the language in ways that misrepresents said group, has poor intentions, or, say, purposefully mimics stereotypical accents (misrecognition according to the article I mentioned). Again, it is a nuanced picture, but there are harms when white people appropriate psychedelic ceremonies for example. Context matters.
Quote:
Chhinnamasta said: What about going out in the sun with no shirt and getting a tan?
How is this culture-specific? For groups to have cultural ownership it has to be specific enough to be extremely unlikely to occur at random in 2 distinct populations... Sitting in the sun is ubiquitous...
Quote:
Chhinnamasta said: This is all just Hegelian (Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel) nonsense spewed by unthinking people who don't even know they are just repeating the thoughts of an intellectual charlatan who had been done away with but has been making a huge unfortunate come back.
Source? I've read a lot of Hegel and never heard him discuss cultural appropriation... and please don't say the downright uninformed view that "all social theory is just Hegelianism rebranded". Nobody with any reasonable degree of specialized knowledge in philosophy believes this.
The fact that you're quoting TheFakeSunRa is unfortunate considering he just made a fool of himself (in terms of both the lack of knowledge he demonstrated and the hostile/immature attitude). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't share the same attitude - looking forward to your response!
Edited by Rhizomorph (03/11/22 04:34 AM)
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27690631 - 03/11/22 07:08 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The fact that you're quoting TheFakeSunRa is unfortunate considering he just made a fool of himself (in terms of both the lack of knowledge he demonstrated and the hostile/immature attitude).

What dafuq you talkin bout, Willis?
Quote:
p0WerSTrUctURes
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#27690633 - 03/11/22 07:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
purposefully mimics stereotypical accents
It’s incredible I really don’t think you’re trolling.
What foreign languages do you fucking speak? (None)
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,258
Last seen: 9 hours, 18 minutes
|
Re: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 5
#27690675 - 03/11/22 08:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Trying to explain the harms of cultural appropriation to right wingers is like trying to explain color to a blind man.
|
|