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geokills
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Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? 3
#27675344 - 02/27/22 11:07 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is an interesting theme that has been coming up more than I expected throughout the course of my discussions surrounding Russia's currently underway full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Russia clearly telegraphed its intent, willfully and otherwise, from which Europe and the US had months to prepare for this. A lot of stern condemnation and vague threats of sanctions against Russia were put into play, but no major physical force was used to deter their aggression, whether that could have been through implementing naval blockades in the black sea or providing real military ground and/or air support within the Ukrainian border.
For my part, I initially saw that Ukraine had dragged its feet on attempting to join NATO, and so it would stand to reason that direct military support would likely be a non-starter. Upon which I consider that perhaps one of the reasons Ukraine didn't make moves quick enough to get into NATO had a lot to do with them needing to sort out their own corruption and domestic Russian influence before being able to take that step. Zelensky's government clearly leans toward the Eu/NATO and away from Russia, and Putin seems to have decided that it's "now or never" to reassert his sphere of influence and prevent further European military assets building up against his borders.
Then there's the dynamic of Europe relying so heavily on Russian gas as an energy asset, with little secure viable alternative in the short-term... and yet, the German/Russia Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline has been put on hold, and today we see moves to block Russian banks from the SWIFT financial settlement system, which in turn will make it harder for European countries to purchase Russian gas. We also see tankers demanding 50%+ higher rates to port in Russia, and Russian gas forced to sell at a discount, even though transmission is more costly. So these economic sanctions do appear to have some teeth, yet it's hard to face the fact that for so many Ukrainians, it's a day late and a dollar short when your countrymen/women/children are dying at the hands of an invading force.
I suspect that the major reason there was no direct physical opposition to Russia's initial posturing, has to do with the nuclear security paradox. The threat of nuclear war can be a deterring factor with regard to a global incursion, but at the same time can paradoxically contribute to perpetuating and encouraging more conventional regional conflict, as nuclear powers are afraid to intervene against the aggression of another nuclear power, due to the utilitarian risk calculation that thousands to hundreds of thousands of lives lost (i.e. conventional warfare) is far preferable to millions to billions of lives lost (i.e. nuclear warfare). And because both Russian and the US have employed a "nuclear triad" (i.e. land, sea and air delivery), the option for a second retaliatory strike is in essence guaranteed, and as such, a nuclear conflict will have no winner. The only way to win, is not to play.
So does this make the US and other European nuclear powers weak in failing to actively defend/deter invasion of a sovereign European nation? With Russia clearly leaning upon the threat of nuclear retaliation, it really is hard to know what the best path forward toward mitigation of humanitarian disaster really is. Putin himself said (translated), during what is considered his public declaration of this war:
Quote:
I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history.
Then today Putin also put his nuclear assets on their highest alert level. This really is a strange situation that appears to hold all the ingredients to escalate quickly. China has been very quiet, and their silence is somewhat telling, as they have aligned themself with Russia, and yet have not endorsed Russia's actions, including abstaining from related UN Security Council votes and publicly stating that they hope both sides can de-escalate sooner rather than later. It is particularly interesting because China has had eyes on wanting to consume Taiwan, as well as some suspect moves to suppress other domestic populations (Uyghurs, Tibetans, et al). Russia is clearly feeling the brunt of the world's disapproval, and I'm sure China is realizing that they are walking a tightrope with their own domestic aggressions and the concern of Chinese public opinion turning against them in a similar way to what we're seeing with Russia now. Not to mention, China being a major trade partner for Ukraine and indeed all of Europe.
Lot of moving parts here...
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Psilynut2
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: geokills] 1
#27675403 - 02/27/22 11:47 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Russia clearly telegraphed its intent, willfully and otherwise, from which Europe and the US had months to prepare for this.
Biden has been saying Russia is going to invade for like the last 6 months . Everyone made fun of him like he's some old fool blowing shit out of proportion . If I were Biden I would hold a press conference right now and tell everyone to suck my dick .
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geokills
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Psilynut2]
#27675434 - 02/27/22 12:12 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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What's the point of that? We all know politicians are quite capable at running their mouth... I don't think Biden attempting to take a victory lap would do him (or anyone) any favors.
Furthermore, Biden advised against the operation that took down Osama Bin Laden when he was vice president with Obama, and the Afghanistan withdrawal (which admittedly wasn't entirely planned under his watch) was rather embarrassing, and so I'm sure Putin put these actions into his calculus when he decided to go into Ukraine, under the assumption that Biden could, militarily, be considered a weak President. I do feel that Biden has used information dissemination appropriately, as a force toward public rebuke against Russia's actions, but I also think he plays it very safe. Which may not be a bad thing, as global risk assessment is complex... I'm just curious if others think there should be a more aggressive stand against Russia?
And what if China decides to move more aggressively on top of all of this? Their economy and growth demographics are contracting, with the strengthening resolve of NATO and the "western collective", they may end up deciding that this is a do or die moment for them to make big moves such as taking Taiwan?
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Asante
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: geokills] 1
#27675846 - 02/27/22 05:21 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Europe is weaksauce. The EU is not an union like the US are.
Meanwhile, the citizens prepare.

Resistance: Ukrainian citizens are filling up the molotov cocktails in preparation for the invasion.
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TheFakeSunRa
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: geokills]
#27675976 - 02/27/22 06:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it’s a lot easier to swallow China taking back Taiwan than what Russia is doing.
I think of Taiwan as rightfully China’s but tbh I felt ambivalent about Ukraine until this happened and I’ve kinda become swept up in the injustice of it.
Maybe when China actually invades Taiwan I’ll feel more empathy for the Taiwanese.
Oddly the Olympics made feel more empathy for the Uighars.
Did Russia really use that FOAB thing or is that fake news?
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Asante
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: TheFakeSunRa] 1
#27676045 - 02/27/22 07:34 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Did Russia really use that FOAB thing or is that fake news?
Look at the video, ignore the subtitle.
You see that considerasble time elapses between the small explosion which disperses the fuel, and the large detonation of the fuel air mix.
The considerable time between them indicates that its a very large FAE, that the cloud must get very big before the detonation.
That means, larger than the TOS-1 missile.
Their effect is nearly instantaneous, as to seem like 1 explosion, such as seen here in thermobaric bombs of similar size:
As you see, they make US conventional bombs look like firecrackers.
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TheFakeSunRa
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Asante]
#27676572 - 02/28/22 06:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Has any legit news agency verified the use of that weapon?
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#27676621 - 02/28/22 07:41 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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If the hit is on a munitions depot then of course the explosion is going to be massive.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: christopera]
#27676642 - 02/28/22 08:13 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the us is largely a state willing to go-to war only for-profit. I don't think they can see this being a profitable endeavor. Beat up on middle easterners for 20 years and collect opium sure. But fight a world power on asian soil. I think Vietnam put us in our place of knowing when to foldem and when to holdem
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Edited by ashfiken (02/28/22 08:49 AM)
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Psilynut2
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ashfiken] 2
#27676668 - 02/28/22 08:41 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lol, Russia invades their neighbor and and all people can do is think about of how much they hate the United States and bitch about irrelevant shit from 20 to 30 years ago .
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ashfiken
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#27676676 - 02/28/22 08:48 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh afghans are irrelevant? Lmao how is it irrelevant that we know we can't win a war in Asia? That's why (the single reason) we are the only ppl to ever use nukes bc we knew the war with the Japanese would be far too costly. So ya know fuck it nuke em. Hilarious how you think this action is any different from the mass of offensive actions we have taken around the globe for 50 years ad nauseam
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ballsalsa
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: geokills] 2
#27676680 - 02/28/22 08:56 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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From a geopolitical standpoint (ignoring the humanitarian implications) there is no good reason to stop Russian aggression in Ukraine at this time. The best Ukraine is going to get is material resources and maybe some clandestine insurgency training. This is because Putin's likely goal of simply ousting the civilian Gov't and replacing it with his picks is looking to be an untenable one without a lengthy occupation a la Iraq. In other words, Russia just bought itself a large albatross to wear around its neck until such time that they either declare victory and leave, thus wasting a bucket of resources for no lasting gain. If it happens in the short term, the expenditures will be less but the political fallout at home will be amplified. If it takes 20 years like it did for the U.S. the expenditures will be much increased but the public at large is paradoxically less likely to view it as an abject failure. A larger scale attempt to annex other former Soviet states would be a wet dream for any Gov't with interests opposed to Russia's for all the reasons I've just described.
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Psilynut2]
#27676683 - 02/28/22 08:58 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think China would prefer to buy Taiwan than to invade it.
China is getting a deal out of this: by allying with Russia, they get to buy Russian gas/exports at a steep discount due to sanctions. As they seem to be dealing in gold, this directly hurts the petrodollar.
There is a bit of an image problem with having allies go on military land grabs, though.
The US/China question is one of circumstances. In terms of absolute numbers, the US is ahead. I'm terms of relative numbers, China is significantly ahead of the US. The US is ahead because of inertia and a significant head start.
I also think this is less a question of US weakness and more a question of US choices. In terms of raw military strength, the US could almost certainly stand up to Russia, though maybe not win a decisive victory. I don't see the political will to do so, however. I see a surprisingly large chunk of support for helping Russia invade Ukraine.
Putin has been pushing the image of good traditional Christian values for some time, and this plays well with the evangelical base in the US.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27676687 - 02/28/22 09:02 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is no question that the U.S. military was primarily designed for conventional warfare against near-peer adversaries like Russia. Might be the only kind of war we could win decisively, honestly.
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Psilynut2
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ashfiken]
#27676692 - 02/28/22 09:08 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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What we're watching right now is our weapons in the hands of amateurs fuck up the Russian military . We would do the same thing to the Russians that we did the the Iraq army the first time in a conventional fight .
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
#27676693 - 02/28/22 09:09 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Which is why a conventional war against Russia will never look like a conventional war against a near-peer adversary.
The US military is almost certainly one of the most ossified militaries in the world.
Russia has, in the last 15 years, fought three very successful wars. So successful we don't even think of them as wars, just little border skirmishes. Russia has also been beefing up their military pipeline, with a focus on patriotic education/indoctrination and an increase in state funded pre-military organizations like the Boy Scouts.
The US, on the other hand, is facing yet another recruit shortage.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27676698 - 02/28/22 09:15 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Russia can't even impose total air superiority over Ukraine.  Given that reality, how long do you think tank columns would survive a conventional confrontation with the U.S. military? We suck at insurgencies but we are very adept at obliterating Russian equipment in pitched battles
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
#27676702 - 02/28/22 09:16 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the assumption that there will still be tank columns given a US military presence is flawed.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27676706 - 02/28/22 09:20 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Then we aren't talking about conventional warfare anymore. The bottom line with armies is that they need constant resupply of equipment, ammunition, fuel, food, etc.
In an environment in which one party can impose air superiority over the operational theatre the ability of the other to move men or material in an efficient way is significantly reduced. In conventional warfare, this is the kiss of death.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27676707 - 02/28/22 09:21 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I keep seeing these videos of captured Russian soldiers saying they don't really know what they are doing there , and that they thought they were on a training mission and they were lied to . They look like malnourished drunks .
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
#27676716 - 02/28/22 09:29 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Then we aren't talking about conventional warfare anymore. The bottom line with armies is that they need constant resupply of equipment, ammunition, fuel, food, etc.
In an environment in which one party can impose air superiority over the operational theatre the ability of the other to move men or material in an efficient way is significantly reduced. In conventional warfare, this is the kiss of death.
In that case, I guess you are correct. We are not talking about a conventional war.
I shall amend my previous statement: nobody will ever fight a conventional war against the US.
Though, I also don't believe that the US could impose absolute air superiority anywhere in eastern Europe. Maybe a slight advantage, but not true superiority that allows deploying air assets with impunity.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27676729 - 02/28/22 09:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Never say never, but yeah, conventional war with the U.S. on a non defensive level is out of reach for any nation currently. Nuclear deterrent exists for this reason, among others. Absent that, I don't think it is in question that the U.S. could impose absolute air superiority over any area within the flight range of our numerous carriers and allied air bases.
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
#27676766 - 02/28/22 10:17 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't doubt the US's ability to deploy air superiority. I doubt the US's ability to reliably recover aircraft deployed over modern AA installations. Sure, US planes can deal with old soviet surplus from the 70s, as demonstrated over the last 20 years. Sure, the F-35 is apparently significantly more capable compared to gen 4 fighters.
When it comes to total air superiority, my assumption is that launching ten planes means ten planes come back a few hours later, barring significant errors in maintenance or piloting. I simply do not believe that would still be the case in proximity to Russian installations.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27676783 - 02/28/22 10:35 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Absolutely, but consider, as an example, Soviet tank superiority in the closing of WW2 and beyond. The concept didn't rely on durability or fire superiority on a 1:1 basis relative to a given enemy. It relied on overwhelming numbers and production capacity coupled with adequate durability/fire capability. U.S. air superiority relies on the same concept while also attempting 1:1 superiority as well. This strat sucks against vastly outmatched enemies because of cost disparities but it's pretty good against near-peers because of the relative cost of thier own equipment being somewhat more comparable.
In other words, it isn't necessary to recover 10/10 planes as long as you can inflict asymmetric losses relative to your ability to replace planes and pilots
Edit: Air superiority just means the ability to operate in the air over a theatre while denying the same to your opponent. This is usually a decisive advantage against non insurgent opponents for a number of pretty obvious reasons like recon and supply line disruption. Total air superiority confers the additional advantage of being able to operate near and against surface forces with near impunity. Russia clearly hasn't achieved this in Ukraine yet and I agree that it has yet to be demonstrated by U.S. equip against the most modern Russian equip
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Edited by ballsalsa (02/28/22 10:40 AM)
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
#27676809 - 02/28/22 10:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Soviet tank superiority was also predicated on the fact that Soviet tanks were several times, if not orders of magnitude, cheaper in terms of material costs, man hours, and technical skill required for those man hours; when compared to German tanks.
I do not believe this holds true for US air power.
This also doesn't count capacity for human losses. The US public, in recent times, has been reluctant to accept body bags as "cost of doing business". This difference becomes much more pronounced when compared to Russian willingness to accept deaths in combat, as seen with Putin's other military excursions. As well as just a general feeling towards the value of life, which I think is lower in Russia.
In response to your edit specifically, to use the wikipedia definitions, I think the US could project some amount of air superiority, but not air supremacy. This does come down to how modern equipment will perform. Assuming that Modern Russian AA systems perform better than the stuff they sold/left behind in the Middle East, I don't think that the US could unilaterally deny air power to Russia.
There is also a bit of a decoupling in terms of production power and cost. Germany at the end of WWII had tons of cash, gold, and looted wealth...but no way to convert that wealth into actual tanks. The US has economic supremacy in terms of wealth, but that may not translate to actual ability to replace losses, especially considering the costs associated with the development of the F-35.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: geokills]
#27681071 - 03/03/22 01:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you are spot on geokills!
I was watching an interview on The Daily Show last night and a lot of the same points you shared were discussed in the interview:
I think the reason why the US & EU do not want to get involved is because of the NATO agreement. As Biden mentioned in the State of the Union on Monday, he said the US Military would use full force if Russia attacked a NATO country. But since the Ukraine isnt in the NATO agreement, the US and Europe arent getting directly involved.
I fear Russian will attack a NATO country in the near future and bring the world into WWIII 
And as for China, because they have this Global Economic plan, they are trying to stay neutral to be in good or neutral standing with the rest of the world as China clearly sees how this war is negatively affecting the perception of Russia by the rest of the world.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#27681332 - 03/03/22 05:30 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is why the West doesn't have to worry about Russia invading a Nato country. You can't bring this weak shit and expect it to sit on a road for three days. As soon as the first vehicle crosses the border it ends up with a 40-mile junkyard
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#27681415 - 03/03/22 06:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said:...I fear Russian will attack a NATO country in the near future and bring the world into WWIII  ...
Much agreed, this would be the worst case scenario and straw to break the camel's back.
My concern is Poland, a part of NATO. It borders Russia, has a flimsy treaty, and Putin feels entitled to it, as well.
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: birdeatingspider]
#27681484 - 03/03/22 07:33 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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They can't move a convoy against a militia, Putin is not going to cross a NATO border.
He tried to attack the US in Syria 200 dead in 15 minutes
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: sweeper54] 1
#27681497 - 03/03/22 07:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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If he is unhinged as some propose, what's to stop such a feat?
TBH, all of what has come from Russia thus far is very.. pleasantly disappointing. These 'tactics' are uncharacteristic of Putin- starting out with unprepared/inexperienced fighters and a 40 mile long convoy susceptible to attack, as we've seen.
I'm starting to lean in the direction that he's lost his mind, and if that's the case- who's to say he won't go all out in desperation. Maybe he's chronically ill and taking a last stand. Would like to know the who that knows.
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: birdeatingspider]
#27681616 - 03/03/22 09:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was watching TDS and that came up, is Putin suffering from mental illness.
According to the show, people who are close to Putin said hes isolated himself even from his own closest people in his circle. And when he heard the news about the war againist Ukraine was going, he was apparently furious. Not sure if all that is true, but as you said, the disorganized, poorly-planned invasion and a 40-mile convoy that is open for attack sounds like Putin has lost his mental abilities.
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OutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#27681771 - 03/03/22 10:56 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



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Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] 1
#27681922 - 03/04/22 03:08 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OutsideOfMyMind said: America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......
Wow. You really know things.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: birdeatingspider]
#27682126 - 03/04/22 07:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
birdeatingspider said: If he is unhinged as some propose, what's to stop such a feat?
With our airpower, it would be over before it got started, but then the mad man would go to nukes
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Mach z 800
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: sweeper54]
#27682355 - 03/04/22 10:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Watch "US THREATENS India with SANCTIONS as the Globalist Order CRUMBLES!!!" on YouTube
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christopera
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Mach z 800]
#27682410 - 03/04/22 11:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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As for taking down Dr Oz. you should see the political commercials currently being aired here. Absolutely hilarious stuff. One guy is running on a policy of doing the exact opposite of what the current governor did, he has no actual policy, he's going to do the opposite. The chick that will be on Dr Turkey's show is also nuts, I couldn't find one of her commercials. I don't think they know how to use YouTube.
Dr Oz won't get the nomination here, everybody is laughing at him.
Also, Dr. Turkey got his PHD from a Christian University, aka it's bullshit. While Dr Oz is getting laughed at and is a clear scam artist himself, at least his credentials are real.
Quote:
Steve Turley (PhD, Durham University) is a theologian, social theorist, classical Christian educator, and prize-winning classical guitarist. He is the author of The Ritualised Revelation of the Messianic Age: Washings and Meals in Galatians and 1 Corinthians and Awakening Wonder: A Classical Guide to Truth, Goodness & Beauty. Steve blogs on the church, society and culture, education, and the arts at TurleyTalks.com. He is a faculty member at Tall Oaks Classical School in New Castle, DE, where he teaches theology, Greek, and rhetoric, and is a professor of fine arts at Eastern University. Steve lectures at universities, conferences, and churches throughout the U.S. and abroad. His research and writings have appeared in such journals as Christianity and Literature, Calvin Theological Journal, First Things, Touchstone, and The Chesterton Review. He and his wife, Akiko, have four children and live in Newark, DE, where they together enjoy fishing, gardening, and watching Duck Dynasty marathons.
Like I have said before, YouTube just gives you access to that things that make you feel warm and fuzzy.
Check this Dr Oz ad out.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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RadoVanDraco
Stranger


Registered: 05/07/21
Posts: 62
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: christopera]
#27682551 - 03/04/22 01:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Les jeux sont faits, rien ne va plus !"
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mindfuel
Curious



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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: RadoVanDraco]
#27682558 - 03/04/22 02:01 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The USA/EU/NATO is not weak, they just dont want a nuclear war. Also, we all know that China will support Pootin. Again, doing nothing (visibly) is avoiding a nuclear holocaust.
-------------------- You never forget your first... I'm here for the medicine and the awakening
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Kryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: mindfuel]
#27682717 - 03/04/22 03:47 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Putin's fucking with Chain's cash flow, they trade with Ukraine.
It's more of a cash trickle, but it's still not exactly in China's interests.
Apart from the geopolitical aspects of distracting the US.
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OutsideOfMyMind
LSD Self Administrative Director



Registered: 10/05/20
Posts: 5,546
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#27682728 - 03/04/22 03:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
OutsideOfMyMind said: America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......
Wow. You really know things.
I thought this was common knowledge? I was just stating the obvious.
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
#27682751 - 03/04/22 04:11 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OutsideOfMyMind said:
Quote:
TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:
OutsideOfMyMind said: America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......
Wow. You really know things.
I thought this was common knowledge? I was just stating the obvious.
You’re smart!
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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RedRH
FNG


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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
#27682788 - 03/04/22 04:28 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Regarding the question of being too weak, that is the wrong question. A better question is do we have the resolve as we know we have the might. It also comes down to the question of what a maniac is willing to do. He has shown a total disregard for the rules of war regarding the Geneva and Hague conventions by using cluster bombs and massive thermobaric bombs and rockets. And don't forget that he has threatened nuclear retaliation if anyone interferes. How insane is he? They directed an artillery attack on the nuclear power plant. He doe not give a fuck.
They are committing war crimes and could care less about repercussions. I am hoping that the Russian people will rise up and that his military turns on him. What he is effectively doing is killing his economy and bringing devastation to his own people. He threatens nuclear first use response if we get in his way. He cannot be allowed to remain and the heat will be turned up to a degree his own people will remove him. That would be the optimal scenario but he has brutal Chechen security around him. Even they cannot stop what is coming. He may lash out in desperation and launch nukes. If he does so, I doubt China would come to his aid as China would doom their economy as well if they nuke the only nations that provide them revenue. Who will they sell to if they did that? Russia and the few remaining third world nations?
I suspect this could possibly be just one small piece in a global action involving more than Russia and China, but that is for the conspiracy thread.
Funny how many folks that are anti gun here in the US are begging to arm every Ukrainian. The only way to defeat the US will not be by foreign boots on the ground here. It will be by nukes or bioweapon as the latter does not destroy the land and resources. Or there is the 3rd option and that is we destroy ourselves in a civil war. One thing is clear: due to global trade, killing off the largest economy on the planet is a suicide pact.
I talk to farmers around here and I am being told that many will not be planting this season due to the cost of production, namely ag fertilizers and chems going up 100% already, and projected to go up another 200% before the end of the year. If this is not fixed soon, it will lead to not only high prices, but food shortages here and around the world as we are a critical exporter. This would cause famine in some countries. None of this is speculation as it is currently the case. AgRX told their customers to expect these increase in the coming months as it is now set in stone.
Killing oil production then claiming we need to become energy independent of any Russian oil is the policy of this administration that they announced. Guess what they suggest to become energy independent? Move to green energy. The last time I checked, you can't fertilize your crops with electricity. This cult of green energy is going to be paid for in human lives and this is not a stretch. I guess the cost of moving to green tech is worth it in their sick minds and they are now leveraging this war to do so.
You can now pile on, but this is my opinion.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: RedRH]
#27682837 - 03/04/22 04:59 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Cool story, bro
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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RedRH
FNG


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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27682898 - 03/04/22 05:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: I don't doubt the US's ability to deploy air superiority. I doubt the US's ability to reliably recover aircraft deployed over modern AA installations. Sure, US planes can deal with old soviet surplus from the 70s, as demonstrated over the last 20 years. Sure, the F-35 is apparently significantly more capable compared to gen 4 fighters.
When it comes to total air superiority, my assumption is that launching ten planes means ten planes come back a few hours later, barring significant errors in maintenance or piloting. I simply do not believe that would still be the case in proximity to Russian installations.
Why send in manned fighters to take out AAA when we have so many other options that we always use first? Drones, cruise missiles, etc.. We also have some other weapons tech that has been tested and would be rolled out should we get into an actual declared war with Russia and I do not see that happening unless they attack a NATO ally. No air campaign starts until after we take out command and control and AAA with a combination of infiltrated teams and the already mentioned options. Ukraine will fall and it will be the slow bleed of insurgency for decades after. I thought they learned from Afghanistan. Apparently not.
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RedRH
FNG


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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
#27682909 - 03/04/22 05:59 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: Then we aren't talking about conventional warfare anymore. The bottom line with armies is that they need constant resupply of equipment, ammunition, fuel, food, etc.
In an environment in which one party can impose air superiority over the operational theatre the ability of the other to move men or material in an efficient way is significantly reduced. In conventional warfare, this is the kiss of death.
In that case, I guess you are correct. We are not talking about a conventional war.
I shall amend my previous statement: nobody will ever fight a conventional war against the US.
Though, I also don't believe that the US could impose absolute air superiority anywhere in eastern Europe. Maybe a slight advantage, but not true superiority that allows deploying air assets with impunity.
If a NATO ally gets attacked, we absolutely would establish air superiority.
Regarding a country fighting us in a conventional war, that was exactly what Iraq attempted to do when they invaded Kuwait.
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RedRH
FNG


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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: RedRH]
#27682914 - 03/04/22 06:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ask a few Russians you may know why Putin waited until now to invade the Ukraine. You will get an interesting answer that may infuriate some here. I have already done so as we had Russian clients and they have been telling us for a few years now. Crimea, pause button pushed and now restarted to take the rest. Hmmmm.....
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