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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27676716 - 02/28/22 09:29 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Then we aren't talking about conventional warfare anymore.  The bottom line with armies is that they need constant resupply of equipment, ammunition, fuel, food, etc.

In an environment in which one party can impose air superiority over the operational theatre the ability of the other to move men or material in an efficient way is significantly reduced. In conventional warfare, this is the kiss of death.




In that case, I guess you are correct. We are not talking about a conventional war.

I shall amend my previous statement: nobody will ever fight a conventional war against the US.

Though, I also don't believe that the US could impose absolute air superiority anywhere in eastern Europe. Maybe a slight advantage, but not true superiority that allows deploying air assets with impunity.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27676729 - 02/28/22 09:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Never say never, but yeah, conventional war with the U.S. on a non defensive level is out of reach for any nation currently. Nuclear deterrent exists for this reason, among others.  Absent that, I don't think it is in question that the U.S. could impose absolute air superiority over any area within the flight range of our numerous carriers and allied air bases.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27676766 - 02/28/22 10:17 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I don't doubt the US's ability to deploy air superiority. I doubt the US's ability to reliably recover aircraft deployed over modern AA installations. Sure, US planes can deal with old soviet surplus from the 70s, as demonstrated over the last 20 years. Sure, the F-35 is apparently significantly more capable compared to gen 4 fighters.

When it comes to total air superiority, my assumption is that launching ten planes means ten planes come back a few hours later, barring significant errors in maintenance or piloting. I simply do not believe that would still be the case in proximity to Russian installations.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27676783 - 02/28/22 10:35 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely, but consider, as an example, Soviet tank superiority in the closing of WW2 and beyond. The concept didn't rely on durability or fire superiority on a 1:1 basis relative to a given enemy. It relied on overwhelming numbers and production capacity coupled with adequate durability/fire capability.  U.S. air superiority relies on the same concept while also attempting 1:1 superiority as well. This strat sucks against vastly outmatched enemies because of cost disparities but it's pretty good against near-peers because of the relative cost of thier own equipment being somewhat more comparable.

In other words, it isn't necessary to recover 10/10 planes as long as you can inflict asymmetric losses relative to your ability to replace planes and pilots

Edit:
Air superiority just means the ability to operate in the air over a theatre while denying the same to your opponent.  This is usually a decisive advantage against non insurgent opponents for a number of pretty obvious reasons like recon and supply line disruption. Total air superiority confers the additional advantage of being able to operate near and against surface forces with near impunity. Russia clearly hasn't achieved this in Ukraine yet and I agree that it has yet to be demonstrated by U.S. equip against the most modern Russian equip


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Edited by ballsalsa (02/28/22 10:40 AM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27676809 - 02/28/22 10:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Soviet tank superiority was also predicated on the fact that Soviet tanks were several times, if not orders of magnitude, cheaper in terms of material costs, man hours, and technical skill required for those man hours; when compared to German tanks.

I do not believe this holds true for US air power.

This also doesn't count capacity for human losses. The US public, in recent times, has been reluctant to accept body bags as "cost of doing business". This difference becomes much more pronounced when compared to Russian willingness to accept deaths in combat, as seen with Putin's other military excursions. As well as just a general feeling towards the value of life, which I think is lower in Russia.

In response to your edit specifically, to use the wikipedia definitions, I think the US could project some amount of air superiority, but not air supremacy. This does come down to how modern equipment will perform. Assuming that Modern Russian AA systems perform better than the stuff they sold/left behind in the Middle East, I don't think that the US could unilaterally deny air power to Russia.

There is also a bit of a decoupling in terms of production power and cost. Germany at the end of WWII had tons of cash, gold, and looted wealth...but no way to convert that wealth into actual tanks. The US has economic supremacy in terms of wealth, but that may not translate to actual ability to replace losses, especially considering the costs associated with the development of the F-35.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: geokills]
    #27681071 - 03/03/22 01:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I think you are spot on geokills!

I was watching an interview on The Daily Show last night and a lot of the same points you shared were discussed in the interview:



I think the reason why the US & EU do not want to get involved is because of the NATO agreement. As Biden mentioned in the State of the Union on Monday, he said the US Military would use full force if Russia attacked a NATO country. But since the Ukraine isnt in the NATO agreement, the US and Europe arent getting directly involved.

I fear Russian will attack a NATO country in the near future and bring the world into WWIII :badtrip:

And as for China, because they have this Global Economic plan, they are trying to stay neutral to be in good or neutral standing with the rest of the world as China clearly sees how this war is negatively affecting the perception of Russia by the rest of the world.


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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27681332 - 03/03/22 05:30 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)



This is why the West doesn't have to worry about Russia invading a Nato country.
You can't bring this weak shit and expect it to sit on a road for three days. As soon as the first vehicle crosses the border it ends up with a 40-mile junkyard

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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #27681415 - 03/03/22 06:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:...I fear Russian will attack a NATO country in the near future and bring the world into WWIII :badtrip:
...




Much agreed, this would be the worst case scenario and straw to break the camel's back.

My concern is Poland, a part of NATO. It borders Russia, has a flimsy treaty, and Putin feels entitled to it, as well.


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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #27681484 - 03/03/22 07:33 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

They can't move a convoy against a militia, Putin is not going to cross a NATO border.

He tried to attack the US in Syria 200 dead in 15 minutes

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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #27681497 - 03/03/22 07:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

If he is unhinged as some propose, what's to stop such a feat?

TBH, all of what has come from Russia thus far is very.. pleasantly disappointing. These 'tactics' are uncharacteristic of Putin- starting out with unprepared/inexperienced fighters and a 40 mile long convoy susceptible to attack, as we've seen.

I'm starting to lean in the direction that he's lost his mind, and if that's the case- who's to say he won't go all out in desperation. Maybe he's chronically ill and taking a last stand.
Would like to know the who that knows.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #27681616 - 03/03/22 09:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I was watching TDS and that came up, is Putin suffering from mental illness.

According to the show, people who are close to Putin said hes isolated himself even from his own closest people in his circle. And when he heard the news about the war againist Ukraine was going, he was apparently furious. Not sure if all that is true, but as you said, the disorganized, poorly-planned invasion and a 40-mile convoy that is open for attack sounds like Putin has lost his mental abilities.

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27681771 - 03/03/22 10:56 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 1
    #27681922 - 03/04/22 03:08 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......




Wow. You really know things.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]

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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #27682126 - 03/04/22 07:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
If he is unhinged as some propose, what's to stop such a feat?


With our airpower, it would be over before it got started, but then the mad man would go to nukes

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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: sweeper54]
    #27682355 - 03/04/22 10:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Watch "US THREATENS India with SANCTIONS as the Globalist Order CRUMBLES!!!" on YouTube

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27682410 - 03/04/22 11:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

:curbyourenthusiasm:

As for taking down Dr Oz. you should see the political commercials currently being aired here. Absolutely hilarious stuff. One guy is running on a policy of doing the exact opposite of what the current governor did, he has no actual policy, he's going to do the opposite. The chick that will be on Dr Turkey's show is also nuts, I couldn't find one of her commercials. I don't think they know how to use YouTube.

Dr Oz won't get the nomination here, everybody is laughing at him.

Also, Dr. Turkey got his PHD from a Christian University, aka it's bullshit. While Dr Oz is getting laughed at and is a clear scam artist himself, at least his credentials are real.

Quote:


Steve Turley (PhD, Durham University) is a theologian, social theorist, classical Christian educator, and prize-winning classical guitarist. He is the author of The Ritualised Revelation of the Messianic Age: Washings and Meals in Galatians and 1 Corinthians and Awakening Wonder: A Classical Guide to Truth, Goodness & Beauty. Steve blogs on the church, society and culture, education, and the arts at TurleyTalks.com. He is a faculty member at Tall Oaks Classical School in New Castle, DE, where he teaches theology, Greek, and rhetoric, and is a professor of fine arts at Eastern University. Steve lectures at universities, conferences, and churches throughout the U.S. and abroad. His research and writings have appeared in such journals as Christianity and Literature, Calvin Theological Journal, First Things, Touchstone, and The Chesterton Review. He and his wife, Akiko, have four children and live in Newark, DE, where they together enjoy fishing, gardening, and watching Duck Dynasty marathons.




Like I have said before, YouTube just gives you access to that things that make you feel warm and fuzzy.

Check this Dr Oz ad out.



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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: christopera]
    #27682551 - 03/04/22 01:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

"Les jeux sont faits, rien ne va plus !"

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Offlinemindfuel
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: RadoVanDraco]
    #27682558 - 03/04/22 02:01 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

The USA/EU/NATO is not weak, they just dont want a nuclear war. Also, we all know that China will support Pootin. Again, doing nothing (visibly) is avoiding a nuclear holocaust.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: mindfuel]
    #27682717 - 03/04/22 03:47 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Putin's fucking with Chain's cash flow, they trade with Ukraine.

It's more of a cash trickle, but it's still not exactly in China's interests.

Apart from the geopolitical aspects of distracting the US.

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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Is the USA/EU too weak to confront Russia? What will China do? [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #27682728 - 03/04/22 03:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
America is secretly in bed with Russia...............and China................ and the middle east......




Wow. You really know things.



I thought this was common knowledge? I was just stating the obvious.


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