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shivas.wisdom
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March 1st, 2022 - Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine
I'm not sure how else the US could be responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine, unless the Russian act of aggression is considered a justified response to provocative geopolitical alliances.
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koods
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: Ummmm basically I don't agree with the premise of your questions shiva.
Where did I or John Mearsheimer ever say this was justified?
Why is it so difficult for people to get it through their heads that looking at the background to this is not the same as agreeing with Putin?
How about saying there is absolutely no justification for Russia’s behavior and leave it at that.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: koods]
#27684095 - 03/05/22 04:30 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I know you don't have access to a decent internet connection but the video is the one where Victoria Nuland, after laying out the U.S. agenda for the Ukrainian government says Fuck the E.U.
So what? the US has a right to influence the agenda of foreign countries. It’s actually none of Russia’s business. Do you know what Russia’s agenda is for the Ukrainian government. Kill it and then become the Ukrainian government. Fuck this whataboutism.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: koods] 2
#27684099 - 03/05/22 04:31 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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No problem There is no justification for Russia invading Ukraine but while we're here let's look at the part the U.S. played in antagonising the situation.
How's that?
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: koods] 1
#27684101 - 03/05/22 04:33 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
So what? the US has a right to influence the agenda of foreign countries. It’s actually none of Russia’s business.
See, right there, that's the problem.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27684136 - 03/05/22 05:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The CIA's involvement in overthrowing the Whitlam Government in Australia.
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When Whitlam was re-elected for a second term, in 1974, the White House sent Marshall Green to Canberra as ambassador. Green was an imperious, sinister figure who worked in the shadows of America’s “deep state”. Known as “the coupmaster”, he had played a central role in the 1965 coup against President Sukarno in Indonesia – which cost up to a million lives. One of his first speeches in Australia, to the Australian Institute of Directors, was described by an alarmed member of the audience as “an incitement to the country’s business leaders to rise against the government”.
Did the U.S. sack Gough Whitlam? Of course not, how could they.
Did they involve themselves in the shitfuckery that led to him being sacked by The Governor General? Absolutely.
Imagine if Australia started sending diplomats to the U.S. OPENLY calling for business leaders of the U.S. to rise against the government?
People have good reason to look into this going on past performance.
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Psilynut2
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Quote:
Stable Genius said Where did I or John Mearsheimer ever say this was justified?
Why is it so difficult for people to get it through their heads that looking at the background to this is not the same as agreeing with Putin?
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It’s very important to understand that we invented this story that Putin is highly aggressive and he’s principally responsible for this crisis in Ukraine..... My argument is that the West, especially the United States, is principally responsible for this disaster......And, number two, we should be working overtime to create friendly relations with the Russians.
Did he need to use the word justified? If koods was kicking your ass because you did something peaceful that he perceived or lied about being antagonizing would you blame yourself and then offer him a blowjob? That's what it sounds like to me that guy is saying we should do. Hes not going to say the war is justified , pieces of shit like that don't have the balls to show their true colors so you get nonsense like that instead .
Edited by Psilynut2 (03/05/22 09:13 PM)
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Psilynut2]
#27684380 - 03/05/22 09:41 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Did he need to use the word justified?
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shivas.wisdom said: Why are Russian acts of aggression justified
Normally I try and stay away from the forums when I'm half pissed. You should try it sometime.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Psilynut2]
#27684382 - 03/05/22 09:43 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: If koods was kicking your ass because you did something peaceful that he perceived or lied about being antagonizing would you blame yourself and then offer him a blowjob?
Nah I'd send him around to see your Mrs.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27684453 - 03/05/22 11:32 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Justified: having or shown to have a just, right, or reasonable basis.
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John Mearsheimer said: My argument is that the West, especially the United States, is principally responsible for this disaster. But no American policymaker, and hardly anywhere in the American foreign-policy establishment, is going to want to acknowledge that line of argument, and they will say that the Russians are responsible [because the Russians did the annexation and the invasion].
In other words, his argument is that the West is principally responsible for the Russian annexation and invasion of Ukraine, because the West understood that this would be the reasonable response of the Russian state to their provocation in the region. The Russian state is not principally responsible for its own acts of military aggression because they were reasonable (aka justified) acts in response to Western policy.
So you can read it like this: Why are Russian acts of aggression justified reasonable because of provocative geopolitics, but Ukraine isn't justified reasonable in seeking out geopolitical alliances to bulwark against the threat of Russian aggression?
Also, two of my questions didn't even touch on the word 'justify' if that specific word is so objectionable:
Assuming Ukraine is willingly seeking closer ties with the European Union and the US because of this threat of Russian aggression, why should Russia be able to prevent it because they consider it an existential threat to their own nation?
And why should responsibility for this invasion largely fall on a perceived threat posed by Western nations, rather than the Russian state which made the decision to preemptively invade another country because of a perceived (but unrealized) threat to their own sovereignty?
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Psilynut2
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27684495 - 03/06/22 01:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Normally I try and stay away from the forums when I'm half pissed. You should try it sometime.
You know what I was thinking about ? That guy you like , and the bullshit he says , you know the one who left because no one liked his support for Putin ? He's always telling people you shouldnt listen to mainstream news sources , or establishment politicians. Hes always promoting little independent guys like Dore and guys I've never heard of , basically saying to look at any other source . Then almost as if hypocrisy isn't even a thing , he claims we should also trust whatever RT says because they don't lie . It can't possibly get any more establishment or mainstream than that . Russians like Jimmy who don't go along with the establishment narrative are killed in there .
Does that seem crazy or like an insane double standard to you ? Seems fucking crazy to me .
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#27684536 - 03/06/22 02:47 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
In other words, his argument is that the West is principally responsible for the Russian annexation and invasion of Ukraine, because the West understood that this would be the reasonable response of the Russian state to their provocation in the region. The Russian state is not principally responsible for its own acts of military aggression because they were reasonable (aka justified) acts in response to Western policy.
So you can read it like this: Why are Russian acts of aggression justified reasonable because of provocative geopolitics, but Ukraine isn't justified reasonable in seeking out geopolitical alliances to bulwark against the threat of Russian aggression?
Also, two of my questions didn't even touch on the word 'justify' if that specific word is so objectionable:
Assuming Ukraine is willingly seeking closer ties with the European Union and the US because of this threat of Russian aggression, why should Russia be able to prevent it because they consider it an existential threat to their own nation?
And why should responsibility for this invasion largely fall on a perceived threat posed by Western nations, rather than the Russian state which made the decision to preemptively invade another country because of a perceived (but unrealized) threat to their own sovereignty?
1. Why should Russia be able to prevent Ukraine seeking closer ties with the EU etc? Answer. It shouldn't.
But to add to that, maybe someone should ask Victoria Nuland the same question.
Why does the U.S. government have to fuck with the ELECTED governments of other countries over and over and over again. I think I read the CIA(= U.S. foreign policy) have fucked with 60 different countries since the end of WW2. 60 countries... Do you think this is acceptable? I don't!
2. Why should responsibility for this invasion largely fall on the West/U.S. Answer. I'm not saying that. Russia is responsible for their actions and their invasion. Refer to point 1. above.
It's quite simple.
If you guys can't see any other view other than Putin bad, which he is, he's destroying Ukraine and is in the process of making the Russian nation a pariah state, well I don't know how else to put it.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Psilynut2] 2
#27684545 - 03/06/22 02:58 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
Normally I try and stay away from the forums when I'm half pissed. You should try it sometime.
You know what I was thinking about ? That guy you like , and the bullshit he says , you know the one who left because no one liked his support for Putin ? He's always telling people you shouldnt listen to mainstream news sources , or establishment politicians. Hes always promoting little independent guys like Dore and guys I've never heard of , basically saying to look at any other source . Then almost as if hypocrisy isn't even a thing , he claims we should also trust whatever RT says because they don't lie . It can't possibly get any more establishment or mainstream than that . Russians like Jimmy who don't go along with the establishment narrative are killed in there .
Does that seem crazy or like an insane double standard to you ? Seems fucking crazy to me .
Falcon's a lot smarter than you are and if I had to listen to your bullshit day in day out I'd choose to spend my time elsewhere too, guaranteed.
I don't agree with everything Falcon says... like shit man I've tried and tried to trip him up, catch him out, prove him wrong and I couldn't do it, but you know what, NOT ONCE, NOT FUCKING ONCE did he stoop to your level. He answered every time respectfully and took the time to explain himself. This place will be less if he chooses to not return, that's for sure and I'm not the only one that enjoyed his posts.
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ONE OZ SLUG
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Can't say I'll miss a person who refers to the barbarity by Russian forces in Ukraine as a "peacekeeping operation".
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koods
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Stable Genius] 2
#27684602 - 03/06/22 04:57 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
It’s very important to understand that we invented this story that Putin is highly aggressive and he’s principally responsible for this crisis in Ukraine.....
What a load of crap. Putin has been a fucking psychopath from day one. Every former Soviet republic is either a dictatorship subservient to Russia, a NATO country or a country that Putin has invaded. Nobody forced those countries to be part of NATO. They wanted to be part of NATO because they worried if they were not, they would end up like Ukraine.
I just find it stunning that someone who is supposed to be an expert would say “we invented the story that Putin is highly aggressive.” That guy is a fucking moron
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/06/22 04:59 AM)
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koods
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: koods]
#27684608 - 03/06/22 05:07 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Falcon is a fascist apologist who defended some of the worst, most oppressive regimes in the world. Assad. Maduro. MBS. Putin. He spent three years telling us how much he hates war and imperialism, while making excuses for genocide and Russian annexation and invasions. If someone told me he worked at a GRU troll farm I would not be surprised.
He’s also a fucking liar who is incapable of having an honest debate. And he’s too intelligent to simply be a gullible person, mislead by slick propaganda and disinformation. He knew exactly the ideals he was promoting and was perfectly capable of crafting his own tailored disinformation to suit his needs, which makes him kinda evil considering the monsters his rhetoric was serving.
Edited by koods (03/06/22 05:20 AM)
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Warrk



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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: koods] 2
#27684629 - 03/06/22 05:40 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's nothing wrong with Russia or Russians. But everything wrong with Putin, Putin is like the Russian equivalent of Trump. Both insecure guys who talk and act tough to cover for their inadequacies.
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Brian Jones
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Did he need to use the word justified?
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shivas.wisdom said: Why are Russian acts of aggression justified
Normally I try and stay away from the forums when I'm half pissed. You should try it sometime.
That's probably a wise policy, but I can't stop myself.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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shivas.wisdom
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: 1. Why should Russia be able to prevent Ukraine seeking closer ties with the EU etc? Answer. It shouldn't.
Whataboutism comparing political manipulation to acts of military aggression aside, then why are you suggesting that threat of NATO advancement into Ukraine provoked Russian acts of aggression as if this was a legitimate reason for such acts?
If I help someone set-up beehives in their backyard, even though their neighbour keeps saying they don't want beehives near their house - if that neighbour eventually jumps the fence and attacks the person with the beehives, does it sound reasonable to suggest I provoked the violence because I ignored the neighbours threats and continued building beehives?
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Stable Genius said: 2. Why should responsibility for this invasion largely fall on the West/U.S. Answer. I'm not saying that. Russia is responsible for their actions and their invasion. Refer to point 1. above.
Ok, but you're sharing the opinion of someone (John Mearsheimer) who is saying this as if it is a respectable opinion. Why are you sharing perspectives if you think they're wrong?
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Stable Genius said: If you guys can't see any other view other than Putin bad, which he is, he's destroying Ukraine and is in the process of making the Russian nation a pariah state, well I don't know how else to put it.
Take a look at my most recent posts in this thread to see how you can question the official narrative of the Western states without defending the lies Putin has used to justify his act of military aggression.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: koods]
#27684781 - 03/06/22 08:38 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
It’s very important to understand that we invented this story that Putin is highly aggressive and he’s principally responsible for this crisis in Ukraine.....
What a load of crap. Putin has been a fucking psychopath from day one. Every former Soviet republic is either a dictatorship subservient to Russia, a NATO country or a country that Putin has invaded. Nobody forced those countries to be part of NATO. They wanted to be part of NATO because they worried if they were not, they would end up like Ukraine.
I just find it stunning that someone who is supposed to be an expert would say “we invented the story that Putin is highly aggressive.” That guy is a fucking moron
Especially considering - as I mentioned earlier - John Mearsheimer was saying back in 1993 that Ukraine without a nuclear deterrent would likely be subjected to aggression by Russia.
Seems almost contradictory to his opinion now.
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