|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Kwyjibo]
#27701295 - 03/19/22 11:15 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kwyjibo said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I don’t doubt fal meant like in the parliament,
It doesn't matter, it's a question nobody can answer without knowing the thoughts of everyone in the Russia and Ukraine governments. So unless Fal is a mind reader his claim can't be verified. If he can't prove his information is accurate then he shouldn't be stating it as fact.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, I'm not trying to read the minds of anyone, I'm telling you what conditions Russia is asking for, not what anyone secretly 'wants' inside their own heads.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Kwyjibo said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I don’t doubt fal meant like in the parliament,
It doesn't matter, it's a question nobody can answer without knowing the thoughts of everyone in the Russia and Ukraine governments. So unless Fal is a mind reader his claim can't be verified. If he can't prove his information is accurate then he shouldn't be stating it as fact.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, I'm not trying to read the minds of anyone, I'm telling you what conditions Russia is asking for, not what anyone secretly 'wants' inside their own heads.
No, you made a claim, back it up or admit you lied.
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 40 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Per your own article, Wagner is "a private military company", which is not part of the Government.
Quote:
The Wagner Group (Russian: Группа Вагнера, romanized: Gruppa Vagnera), also known as PMC Wagner, ChVK Wagner (ChVK being the Russian abbreviation for Private Military Company),[34] or CHVK Vagner (ЧВК Вагнера ChVK Vagnera, Частная Военная Компания Вагнера), is a Russian paramilitary organization. It is variously described as a private military company, a network of mercenaries, or a de facto private army of Russian President Vladimir Putin.[35]
The Wagner Group came to global prominence during the war in Donbas in Ukraine, where it aided separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics from 2014 to 2015. Its contractors have reportedly taken part in various conflicts around the world—including the civil wars in Libya, Syria, the Central African Republic (CAR), and Mali—often fighting on the side of forces aligned with the Russian government. Though welcomed by some allied factions, such as the governments of Syria and the CAR, Wagner operatives have been accused of war crimes in areas where they are deployed.[36][37]
Because it often operates in support of Russian interests or foreign policy objectives, and is reportedly trained on installations of the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD), several sources consider ChVK Wagner an arms-length unit of the MoD and/or Russia's military intelligence agency, the GRU.[38] Likewise, the group is widely believed to be owned and/or financed by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a businessman with close links to Putin. It is speculated that the Wagner Group is used by the Russian government to allow for plausible deniability in certain conflicts; it has most recently been tied to the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, where it has been asserted to have been deployed to assassinate Ukrainian leaders.[39]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Given that we know the stated goals of Russia, and that's it's not to take over all of Ukraine like the West is implying, and given that Zelensky chose to fight Russia rather than agree to security concerns that were laid out years ago, and given all the fake news coming out of the West, I can understand this position.
What position? Be clear here. You understand the position of the Russian state that calling what's happening an "attack, invasion, or a declaration of war" is dissemination of false information? Because that's what I was talking about in the post you're responding to.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Per your own article, Wagner is "a private military company", which is not part of the Government. 
So denazification entails relabelling Azov battalion as a PMC?
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
|
Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27701348 - 03/19/22 12:14 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I don’t doubt fal meant like in the parliament, but yeah there’s definitely (at the very least) Azov-type groups in the Russian military, in really every military. That’s part of the reason the denazification line rings so hollow, Russia’s got its own issues with the far right, namely: the leaders of its government.
Perhaps Falcon91Wolvrn03 can give some insight into what 'denazification' entails here, since they are the only one who claims to understand it as reasonable. It's a slog trying to research for things written in Cyrillic when I don't speak any of the relevant languages. @Falcon91Wolvrn03, who are the nazi Ukrainian government officials that must be removed?
My understanding is that Svoboda was the parliamentary party with significant neo-nazi associations - and that a decade ago (coming into the euromaidan) they were a serious contender for political power. In the years following euromaidan, their parliamentary support has been reduced to a tiny minority (3% of the last vote I believe), and in response fascism within Ukraine shifted from seeking parliamentary power to consolidating its remaining power into the police and military. Something that happens, as you say, with police and military forces around the globe.
The situation in Ukraine is further compounded by the history of Ukrainian nationalism, where (due to the lines drawn in WWII) collaboration with nazi Germany against the Soviets was common. Meaning that Ukrainian nationalism is pretty much impossible to completely dissociate from nazi Germany, whereas Russian nationalism is instead connected to fighting against nazi Germany. But while attempts to rehabilitate problematic national heroes is an issue in its own right, this is still a distinct issue from a nation setting itself up to genocide ethnic Russians.
This 'rise and fall' can be seen with Stepan Bandera being awarded the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine in 2010, annulled in 2011, and rejected again in 2019.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Kwyjibo] 1
#27701366 - 03/19/22 12:37 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kwyjibo said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Kwyjibo said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I don’t doubt fal meant like in the parliament,
It doesn't matter, it's a question nobody can answer without knowing the thoughts of everyone in the Russia and Ukraine governments. So unless Fal is a mind reader his claim can't be verified. If he can't prove his information is accurate then he shouldn't be stating it as fact.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, I'm not trying to read the minds of anyone, I'm telling you what conditions Russia is asking for, not what anyone secretly 'wants' inside their own heads.
No, you made a claim, back it up or admit you lied.
I'll admit you interpreted what I said incorrectly.
I said something like "We know Putin doesn't want NATO because we know what he's asking for"
Your response was something like "You can't know what Putin wants because you can't read his mind"
This is a silly semantics game people play in kindeegarten. Of course I don't know what he secretly wants, but I do know what he's asking for.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'll admit you interpreted what I said incorrectly.
I said something like "We know Putin doesn't want NATO because we know what he's asking for"
Your response was something like "You can't know what Putin wants because you can't read his mind"
This is a silly semantics game people play in kindeegarten. Of course I don't know what he secretly wants, but I do know what he's asking for.
No, here's what you said, prove it.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Russia has their own equivalent of Nazis, in larger numbers than Ukraine.
Not in the Governemnt.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Kwyjibo]
#27701384 - 03/19/22 12:58 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Still not proof. Prove it.
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 4 minutes, 1 second
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You want a source that Russia in to longer communist or the Soviet Union?
Or a source that McDonalds and Levis were in Russia?
More goal post moving. Original claim: Russia HAS Macdonald’s and Levi’s and that’s how we know Russia isn’t the same place it was 30 years ago. Russia doesn’t have McDonald’s or Levi’s anymore. The global companies are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship
Quote:
You seem to think Russia is still the Communist Soviet Union. It is now capitalist Russia, with global companies such as McDonalds, Levis, etc.”
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 4 minutes, 1 second
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: "We emphasize that it is Russian official information sources that have and disseminate reliable and up-to-date information."
As we've already shown, Russian news such as RT is surprisingly accurate..
Source or make believe?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 4 minutes, 1 second
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Anyone can fake headline screen caps. You have actual sources for these articles or is it make believe?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
Stable Genius
Radicalised


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 6,234
Loc: Wide Bay Orstralia
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
My understanding is that Svoboda was the parliamentary party with significant neo-nazi associations - and that a decade ago (coming into the euromaidan) they were a serious contender for political power. In the years following euromaidan, their parliamentary support has been reduced to a tiny minority (3% of the last vote I believe), and in response fascism within Ukraine shifted from seeking parliamentary power to consolidating its remaining power into the police and military. Something that happens, as you say, with police and military forces around the globe.
https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/223/
Quote:
43,795,220 Population (as of Feb. 8, 2019)
35,550,428 Registered Voters (as of Aug. 6, 2019)
Average Turnout 66.43%
Doing some crude maths, 66.42% of 35,550,428 = 23,612,594
3% of 23,612,594 = 708,377
No matter how you slice it that's quite a few nazi's, looks like an infestation of nazi's actually.
Geez I'd hate to know what the numbers were before Svoboda became unpopular, imagine 3% of the U.S. having that many, yikes
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
|
|
It's never been my intent to minimize the reality of fascism in Ukraine - the last decade has essentially seen Ukraine as a playground for fascist-inspired nationalism from all over Europe. This is an issue that absolutely must be addressed.
But, this issue is distinct from the claim of the Russian state that Ukraine is a nazi state planning a genocide of ethnic Russians - this is an issue not confined solely to Ukrainian nationalism - and this is an issue that won't be solved by Russian military aggression.
Perhaps Falcon91Wolvrn03 will take the time to respond to my posts, and provide more insight from their perspective.
Edit: to demonstrate how convoluted the reality of fascism in the region is, consider this article about the reception given to an Italian fascist who travelled to eastern Ukraine to fight with the seperatists: Italian 'Fascist' Fights for Ukrainian Separatists — Rebel Ex-Leader
Quote:
Though the Ukrainian separatists bill themselves as "anti-fascists," they accepted a self-proclaimed fascist from Italy into their army, a retired rebel leader confirmed Thursday.
"He says, 'they're the wrong American kind of fascists, and I'm the right, anti-American kind," Pavel Gubarev, a former self-proclaimed "people's governor" of the Donbass territory in eastern Ukraine, cited the unnamed Italian as saying, Slon.ru reported.
The man represents a "normal, non-fringe … fascist party," said Gubarev, without elaborating.
"In Europe … fascism has no negative connotations, only Nazism does," Gubarev, who was reportedly a member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity movement, went on to claim.
--------------------
Edited by shivas.wisdom (03/19/22 02:32 PM)
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 40 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Doing some crude maths, 66.42% of 35,550,428 = 23,612,594
3% of 23,612,594 = 708,377
No matter how you slice it that's quite a few nazi's, looks like an infestation of nazi's actually.
Geez I'd hate to know what the numbers were before Svoboda became unpopular, imagine 3% of the U.S. having that many, yikes
Quote:
According to the Hate Map, there are currently 917 hate groups in operation in the U.S. While many of these groups are white supremacist organizations (white nationalists, neo-Nazis, neo-confederates and the Ku Klux Klan),
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/how-many-white-supremacists-splc-hate-map/amp/
I'm not sure our numbers aren't higher . Your free to be as weird as you you want to be in my country though . I don't even know what a neo confederate is . You can be a gay one even , if you want . We don't just kill everyone associated with the people who do bad things because they checked a box on a piece of paper .
Are you saying all of those people deserve to die ? That number could represent allot of elderly senile old fucks just minding their own business .
Edited by Psilynut2 (03/19/22 02:50 PM)
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
|
|
I'm tired of the stupid games people are playing here. I'll address your last post, and HOPEFULLY drop out again, because there's too many dumb posters here (I'll admit, you're NOT one of them).
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: ...this issue is distinct from the claim of the Russian state that Ukraine is a nazi state planning a genocide of ethnic Russians - this is an issue not confined solely to Ukrainian nationalism - and this is an issue that won't be solved by Russian military aggression.
Nazis have ALREADY been killing ethnic Russians, it's not just a 'plan'. It's been happening for the last 8 years. I'm happy that you at least acknowledge there's a Nazi problem.
Ok, I'm out again. Hopefully for a long time, though I'll admit I might get sucked back in to report on something interesting again.
But I'm out for now.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 40 minutes
|
|
Can't remember seeing someone try to bring people over to their side by getting mad and threatening to leave before . That's a strange , seemingly ineffective tactic .
|
Kwyjibo
Stranger

Registered: 07/31/18
Posts: 1,276
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm happy that you at least acknowledge there's a Nazi problem.
Nobody said there are no Nazis in Ukraine. I just asked that you prove your claim there were more than Russia which you have continually failed to do.
Quote:
Ok, I'm out again.
Liar
|
Stable Genius
Radicalised


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 6,234
Loc: Wide Bay Orstralia
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
|
Re: Australia suspends RT broadcast [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#27701490 - 03/19/22 02:54 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Are you saying all of those people deserve to die ?
If I'm saying something you'll be able to read it. Ok?
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 40 minutes
|
|
We have this going on right next door .
Quote:
By the end of President Felipe Calderón's administration (December 1, 2006 – November 30, 2012), the official death toll of the Mexican drug war was at least 60,000. Estimates set the death toll above 120,000 killed by 2013, not including 27,000 missing.
I feel like your making a pretty good case for us to go there and bomb the place to save them . After all , we have a ton of Mexicans living here , and there are allot of Mexicans that want to be US citizens . Doing the same thing Russia is doing should fix the problem right ? I'm mean look what they do to Americans .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1076361
Edited by Psilynut2 (03/19/22 03:11 PM)
|
|