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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058528 - 11/18/22 04:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

How propaganda is spread by Russia on tik tok
https://www.vice.com/en/article/epxken/russian-tiktok-influencers-paid-propaganda

RT and other Russian news outlets do the same thing.  They are given the news while cloth as the Kremlin wants it printed.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28058536 - 11/18/22 04:21 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Working back from conclusions, spinning stories, and claiming falsehoods to achieve it. 



Source, or make believe?  If he's said something we know to be false, please share.

Quote:

sudly said:
Most legacy media reporting is shonky at best, biased with an agenda, and beholden to their donors, for legacy media this is generally the case, for state media this is absolute.

Do you know what an Overton window is?

Because the only way you can have an argument here is to state that you believe Graham Phillips has shifted his Overton window after working for Russian state media.



Why would he have to shift his Overton window?  He believed the locals before, and he continues to believe them now, while you clearly believe whatever the Western Governments feed you (who you say have an absolute agenda).  :shrug:




:cookiemonster:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28058540 - 11/18/22 04:22 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

The Sinclair play, nice.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28058577 - 11/18/22 04:36 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You haven't seen MSNBC criticizing Elon Musk or Fox News criticizing Pelosi?

Please.  Rich people get criticized all the time in U.S. media.

Edit:

I re-read your post, and I think maybe you're asking for an example of when they have criticized the rich as a whole.



Yes, I meant the rich as a whole.  For example, the rich now have a lower effective tax rate than the rest of us. 



Who's critisizing that?  You've said before that you support progressive taxes.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058581 - 11/18/22 04:41 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)



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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058591 - 11/18/22 04:44 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

sudly said:
State propaganda means their reporter's stay within a tightly framed Overton window, a frame that is always pro Kremlin.



I've agreed that he likely wouldn't be on RT if his views were anti-Russian.

Quote:

sudly said:
Working back from conclusions, spinning stories, and claiming falsehoods to achieve it. 



Source, or make believe?  If he's said something we know to be false, please share.

Quote:

sudly said:
Most legacy media reporting is shonky at best, biased with an agenda, and beholden to their donors, for legacy media this is generally the case, for state media this is absolute.

Do you know what an Overton window is?

Because the only way you can have an argument here is to state that you believe Graham Phillips has shifted his Overton window after working for Russian state media.



Why would he have to shift his Overton window?  He believed the locals before, and he continues to believe them now, while you clearly believe whatever the Western Governments feed you (who you say have an absolute agenda).  :shrug:




Do you think he shifted his Overton window from when he worked as a state sponsored Russian propagandist?

It sounds like you're saying no.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058595 - 11/18/22 04:47 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You follow the tried and true method of ignore, dismiss and straw man.

Quote:

Graham Phillips accused of:

Active participation in propaganda projects of the Putin regime, justification of terrorism, participation in illegal armed groups in Eastern Ukraine, misuse of a journalist status, production of fake news, numerous provocations in Ukraine, Russia and the EU.

In early March 2014, he went to cover the “status referendum” in Crimea. As an RT streamer and a YouTube blogger, he repeatedly called the Ukrainian side “fascists” and “Kyiv junta” which coincided with the points of the Russian state media. A month later, Phillips went to Donbas on an assignment from RT to cover the invasion of pro-Russian armed forces from a point of view complementary to the Kremlin. OFCOM, the UK broadcast regulator, found him guilty of biased coverage of the Ukrainian crisis. Some of his actions were too provocative even for RT. In May 2014, he lied that Ukrainian soldiers shot at him. The video he produced turned out to be such a poor fabrication that RT had to disavow the statements of its freelancer.

https://www.spisok-putina.org/en/personas/phillips/




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28058616 - 11/18/22 04:55 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

So you couldn't find anything in those videos I posted to be false? Ok cool.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28058620 - 11/18/22 04:58 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

So what's the point of posting it as if to support your own point - they're blatantly saying that they don't even feel comfortable telling the truth to the reporter so they admit everything they're saying is likely just bullshit to keep themselves safe from foreign invaders.


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¿Check out some art m8?



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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28058626 - 11/18/22 05:04 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Not everyone was saying that though :shrug: the reports line up with what has been discussed here, that the majority of Crimeans are happy with the situation and a %, not all, of the Crimean Tatars have some grievances.. like seriously what is the problem with those interviews? He reported the good stuff and the bad stuff.
Ooo Ooo but someone called him a propagandist so let's not look at anything he has done and weigh it up ourselves??


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28058655 - 11/18/22 05:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Yoù want me to point out the faults of anecdotal propaganda videos?

Other than the Tartars clear animosity to speak freely?

Do you know what an Overton window is!


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28058718 - 11/18/22 05:43 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
You haven't seen MSNBC criticizing Elon Musk or Fox News criticizing Pelosi?

Please.  Rich people get criticized all the time in U.S. media.

Edit:

I re-read your post, and I think maybe you're asking for an example of when they have criticized the rich as a whole.



Yes, I meant the rich as a whole.  For example, the rich now have a lower effective tax rate than the rest of us. 



Who's critisizing that?  You've said before that you support progressive taxes.




Legacy media will not criticise this or bring up related information like the disparity between productivity and compensation because it is designated outside of their overton window.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28058728 - 11/18/22 05:48 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Fox and MSNBC suck corporate shlong every day and fight vigilantly to prop the view that lower corporate taxes are good, corporate socialism alone is good, that wealth will trickle down, and that tax loop holes can't be regulated, if they cover it at all.

Legacy media vehemently love corporate tax cuts. FOX moreso, but they are not alone.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28058747 - 11/18/22 05:58 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

And yet they still criticize the wealth gap and corporate welfare


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28058762 - 11/18/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
And yet they still criticize the wealth gap and corporate welfare




It's not hard to read between the lines.

Fox and republicans are ostensibly for corporate tax cuts when it comes to big business like pharmaceuticals, multinationals and fossil fuel producers.

Most recommendations for tax hikes are not centered on the general public, but specifically on the ultra wealthy, like several of Elizabeth Warrens proposals. It is a misrepresentation to state someone wants to increase taxes without specifying which group of income earners are targeted and how specifically so. 

Fox has been pro corporate welfare for decades when it comes to bailing out the bankers and subsidising fossil fuels. The only time they start down talking corporate subsidies are when they come to renewable resources, because these media organisations are sponsored by the fossil fuel companies.

Legacy media utilise a pick and choose of corporate subsidies for me the fossil fuels, banks, pharmaceuticals etc, not for thee the renewables and general public, while also leaving out relevant context when talking of tax increases and which groups will actually be targeted.

Quote:

Democrats' spending bill is 'essentially corporate welfare': Fox News contributor Ari Fleischer

FLEISCHER: This bill really should be named the "Raise taxes and push the economy deeper into recession" Act. I have never in my entire career heard of somebody who thinks it's good public policy to raise taxes here as the nation is entering a recession. That prolongs recessions, that doesn't stimulate the economy, that doesn't give you the help that you need, it makes things worse. And why? For really what's essentially corporate welfare. This is a gigantic spending bill to give money to green corporate welfare. And that's what so much of the green industry has grown up into. Without subsidies, they would never be competitive, would never exist. And the more subsidies you give them, the more they're just hooked on government. And that's what this bill does. And Joe Manchin, a moderate? No, he's a mini Green New Dealer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/media/democrats-spending-bill-corporate-welfare-fox-news-contributor-ari-fleischer.amp




The solution provided for the wage gaps are usually to pick yourself up by the boot straps, with belittling of unions and scoffing at the premise of raising the minimum wage, because business that rely on poverty wages to run may not be able to run without them.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28058763 - 11/18/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Yoù want me to point out the faults of anecdotal propaganda videos?

Other than the Tartars clear animosity to speak freely?

Do you know what an Overton window is!




Hang on, you can't call the videos propaganda and then immediately misquote them trying to prove a point, not all the Tatars held the same view!

Clearly the unemployed guy had a bit to complain about whereas plenty of others interviewed did not. That's balanced reporting!

If that is a range of opinion from one end of the spectrum to the other who cares what you call it? The interviews were honest, factual, on the ground reporting and like I said if there's some element of dishonesty in those videos point it out!!, instead of dishonestly avoiding the question and blabbering on about state sponsored anecdotal propaganda shifting the Overton window. Jesus!


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28058766 - 11/18/22 06:20 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You don't know what an Overton window is.

You've avoided my question like the plague.

Because if you don't know what an Overton window is, you don't understand why Graham Phillips is still responsible for state sponsored propaganda and that's that.

You've died on your hill.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28058791 - 11/18/22 06:33 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I get that you're not in the U.S., but capitalism, the wealth gap, corporate welfare, tax on the rich...these are discussed regularly by mainstream media.  None of these are, of course, new...so none of them are "news."  Still, they come up unprompted all the time, and they are discussed whenever some issue related to them is news. 

It's popular among the counterculture types, of which this particular site is primarily comprised, to pretend like no one is discussing these issues and that the "man" has us all in the dark, etc.  The reality is much more sad.  The reality is that we hear this shit all the time and we all know that there is no easy solution.  We also know that any solution will be met with resistance.  Sure....it sucks, but it's completely untrue to claim that there is some kind of systematic silencing of these issues in the mainstream media.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28058802 - 11/18/22 06:39 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Discussed sure, but how are they framed?

You can talk about abortion, but that's irrelevant if you don't point out how the discussion is framed, or if you don't have any framing in the first place.

There's an undeniable Overton window within legacy media. There is no conspiracy over or surrounding this fact.

You don't frame things in a way that would negatively frame your advertisers.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28058812 - 11/18/22 06:46 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You would think not, but it happens all the time.  Hell, John Oliver literally every week for years bashed AT&T and they owned the fucking network.


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