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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28058230 - 11/18/22 01:30 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
You should read this post



And chopstick's reply.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 8
    #28058233 - 11/18/22 01:32 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

chopstick's replies are generally good for a laugh and I recommend reading all of them for that reason.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28058238 - 11/18/22 01:33 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That happens every day in Russia.  I watch stuff like that all the time.




Show us



Robert Terkla used to post videos like that every day on his YouTube channel.  Maybe he still does, but he's been wrong about so many things I stopped watching him lately (but in spite of him being wrong, he still posted those videos).

Edit:  Looks like he's still posting those.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28058242 - 11/18/22 01:34 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
chopstick's replies are generally good for a laugh and I recommend reading all of them for that reason.



I was debating whether to say please respond with logic, and don't just call chopstick a big fat poo poo head, but then I thought that should go without saying.  Oh well.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058247 - 11/18/22 01:39 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You have repeatedly and consistently ignored the glaring fact that these people you keep using as sources are or were agents of the russian government.  Philips was hired by the russian state media BECAUSE he expresses pro-russian opinions. 

Saying, "but he says they let him say whatever he wants" is meaningless when he was chosen for his pro-russian stance.  Of course he can say whatever he wants since what he wants has been demonstrably pro-russian.

When RT hires an anti-russian journalist and publishes his anti-putin opinion pieces, then you can tell me how neutral they are.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058250 - 11/18/22 01:43 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I mean, I would think chopstick's incredibly poor track record of relaying factual information should speak for itself at this point, but ok.

What logical response is there for a non-rebuttal in which chopstick simply ignored the argument made and invented their own straw man to knock down?

Like I said, it's worth reading for a laugh but there isn't any substance there.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28058280 - 11/18/22 01:59 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

If Komrad Falkun hasn't figured that out by now then...well, are you really going to make me say it out loud?  Have mercy.  :oldman:


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28058345 - 11/18/22 02:47 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:




People like Ed Schultz, Larry King, Jesse Ventura, Scott Ritter, and a lot of others have gone to RT because they give people the freedom to speak their minds.

Don't believe me?  Listen to a story from Ed Schultz about how MSNBC wouldn't air his coverage of a presidential candidate's announcement.




Chris Hedges as well, one of the best journalists out there.

I remember watching that video, it's a good one and a great example of a major network twisting the agenda for a political outcome.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28058379 - 11/18/22 03:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Uh...no. He quite literally has been paid by Russia to report.




If you mean RT or Zvesda he wasn’t working for them when he made those videos 6 years ago.



Are you saying that he has never been paid by Russia to report the news?




Goal post move.

I'm saying "If you mean RT or Zvesda he wasn’t working for them when he made those videos 6 years ago."

It's obvious if you take the time to watch both video's that he INCLUDES people who aren't happy about their situation in Crimea.

I like how he conducted both of the interviews the same, at the same location, with random people in that area. Old people, kids, working people, unemployed, elderly... to call those particular videos I posted state sponsored propaganda is just flat out wrong.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28058398 - 11/18/22 03:15 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
For the Messiah was a partaker of state sponsored propaganda




Maybe he gets his orders via the telephone box from KAOS headquarters underneath the cone of silence? :awesketch:

Also, if you're going to report from the front line on the separatist side of the country like he does, like Patrick Lancaster does, you're probably going to run into the military and need their permission to get around, crazy I know.

To think that 90% the journo's on the OTHER side of the country aren't reporting propaganda, drip fed from the safety of Lviv press lounge shows how blinkered your view is!

Just look at the disgustingly dangerous reporting on the 2 missiles that hit Poland, the entire world was going oh fuck, but then, nah all good it was Ukraine :laugh2:


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28058413 - 11/18/22 03:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Says who, you?

Why does it matter who pays you to voice your opinion?




Maybe because he who pays the piper calls the tune?

I know you aren't this naive.

Is Voice of America propaganda?




How does the Washington Post and the New York Times get their 'scoops' so quickly when they have no reporters anywhere near the location of a story? They get a phone call from one of their 'anonymous sources' in the government.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #28058421 - 11/18/22 03:24 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)





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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058473 - 11/18/22 03:47 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Phillips is an experienced Russian state propagandist. This is undeniable.



What does that mean exactly?  RT allowed him to share his opinions?

Graham Philips likes to interview people, and get their actual opinions.  As others have noted, some of the Tatars expressed that they are still a little nervous about sharing their opinions.  That's honest reporting.

But you guys hate real life reporting like that.  You'll take US government talking points given to the Western media over actual videos of real people any day.  :shrug:




State propaganda means their reporter's stay within a tightly framed Overton window, a frame that is always pro Kremlin. Working back from conclusions, spinning stories, and claiming falsehoods to achieve it. 

Most legacy media reporting is shonky at best, biased with an agenda, and beholden to their donors, for legacy media this is generally the case, for state media this is absolute.

Do you know what an Overton window is?

Because the only way you can have an argument here is to state that you believe Graham Phillips has shifted his Overton window after working for Russian state media.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28058475 - 11/18/22 03:48 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Saying, "but he says they let him say whatever he wants" is meaningless when he was chosen for his pro-russian stance.  Of course he can say whatever he wants since what he wants has been demonstrably pro-russian.

When RT hires an anti-russian journalist and publishes his anti-putin opinion pieces, then you can tell me how neutral they are.



Who said RT was neutral???  I said they tell far fewer lies than Western media.

Fox and MSNBC do exactly what you're accusing RT of - they hire people who have the same point of view as theirs.  The main difference is that Fox and MSNBC do more fake news.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28058477 - 11/18/22 03:49 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

sudly said:
For the Messiah was a partaker of state sponsored propaganda




Maybe he gets his orders via the telephone box from KAOS headquarters underneath the cone of silence? :awesketch:

Also, if you're going to report from the front line on the separatist side of the country like he does, like Patrick Lancaster does, you're probably going to run into the military and need their permission to get around, crazy I know.

To think that 90% the journo's on the OTHER side of the country aren't reporting propaganda, drip fed from the safety of Lviv press lounge shows how blinkered your view is!

Just look at the disgustingly dangerous reporting on the 2 missiles that hit Poland, the entire world was going oh fuck, but then, nah all good it was Ukraine :laugh2:




Do you know what an Overton window is?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058480 - 11/18/22 03:50 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Says you....I see Fox and MSNBC publish stories critical of the U.S. government all the time.  Where are the RT stories that are critical of Russia?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28058483 - 11/18/22 03:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Fox and MSNBC do exactly what you're accusing RT of - they hire people who have the same point of view as theirs.  The main difference is that Fox and MSNBC do more fake news.



No the difference is RT is state owned propaganda


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28058503 - 11/18/22 04:03 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
State propaganda means their reporter's stay within a tightly framed Overton window, a frame that is always pro Kremlin.



I've agreed that he likely wouldn't be on RT if his views were anti-Russian.

Quote:

sudly said:
Working back from conclusions, spinning stories, and claiming falsehoods to achieve it. 



Source, or make believe?  If he's said something we know to be false, please share.

Quote:

sudly said:
Most legacy media reporting is shonky at best, biased with an agenda, and beholden to their donors, for legacy media this is generally the case, for state media this is absolute.

Do you know what an Overton window is?

Because the only way you can have an argument here is to state that you believe Graham Phillips has shifted his Overton window after working for Russian state media.



Why would he have to shift his Overton window?  He believed the locals before, and he continues to believe them now, while you clearly believe whatever the Western Governments feed you (who you say have an absolute agenda).  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28058513 - 11/18/22 04:10 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Says you....I see Fox and MSNBC publish stories critical of the U.S. government all the time. Where are the RT stories that are critical of Russia?



I didn't say Fox and MSNBC weren't critical of the US government, nor did I say RT was critical of the Russian government.

I said "they hire people who have the same point of view as theirs."

Show me a Fox or MSNBC story that's critical of the rich.  I don't recall seeing that for some time now.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28058526 - 11/18/22 04:18 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You haven't seen MSNBC criticizing Elon Musk or Fox News criticizing Pelosi?

Please.  Rich people get criticized all the time in U.S. media.

Edit:

I re-read your post, and I think maybe you're asking for an example of when they have criticized the rich as a whole.  I hope that's not what you mean, but if it is, that's a very odd request.  Why would a media outlet criticize "the rich" as if they're some monolithic group that acts in concert?  How would that be different from criticizing "the blacks" or "the jews?"

Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe you're not asking that.  I only went back and thought that because it seems absurd that you would claim that the media hasn't criticized any rich people when you have recently been pushing back from all of the criticism of the richest person in the world.


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