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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #27698512 - 03/17/22 06:06 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Yeah. At the very least it looks like Russia is moving into the next phase. They are losing the information war but do not seem to care. Putin basically said fuck the populace, rise up if you dare and we will smite you too.

No reason to play even remotely nice with Ukraine at that point.




They aren't just losing the information war. The shooting war isn't going too well either.
Here's my synopsis. Lenin formed the Soviet Union. Gorbachev dissolved it, and Putin destroyed Russia. Regardless of how the Ukranian invasion ends up, Russia will be economically ruined. They are expected to default on their obligations for the first time since Lenin refused to pay the Czars debts. Putin is very ill physically and the disease or the treatment had clouded his judgement to an extreme degree. If he's even alive in five years, he will either be out of power, or in a crippled position. If he is deposed, whoever succeeds him will be digging themselves out of a very deep hole.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27698597 - 03/17/22 08:34 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Desperation is not a good ingredient in this. So in some ways I hope you are wrong.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #27698610 - 03/17/22 08:45 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Desperation is not a good ingredient in this. So in some ways I hope you are wrong.




Seriously.  The frenzy whipped up around the world over this is Not something good.  People all around are foaming at the mouth over things and it’s like all rational thought and common ground has gone out the door.  Truly frightening.  This escalation of tension and getting backed into corners - fear - fiasco is how really horrible world shaking poor choices play out.  I know there’s a middle ground through all the propaganda and extremes and both sides / all sides can be heard and spoken of with honesty in some form so that no one accidentally/intentionally does something even more catastrophic. / nukes, chem weapons, etc.

It’s truly astounding.  The talking heads on all “major” sides are banging the war drums with maximum ferocity.  Ultimatums and shit.  Totally clueless and removed from the reality of what is being brought to life by it in time just down the road.   


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/17/22 08:51 AM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27698615 - 03/17/22 08:56 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah another video of Russia bombing civilians. They’ve been doing that all over Ukraine

Quote:

The missile that hit Russian-controlled Donetsk on March 14, killing 20 people, was shot from the Russian-held territory in Ukraine, according to an investigation by Ruslan Leviev, the founder of investigative outlet Conflict Intelligence Team.




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/17/22 09:08 AM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 4
    #27698643 - 03/17/22 09:25 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, that’s generally what happens when one military from one country goes into another country.
Ukraine is ruined.  The US aren’t going to actually do anything more than play TV hero and Angel sponsor - they can’t - they can’t risk an actual war with another country that has nuclear weapons - not a straight up war.

It was over before it started.  Sanctions will not stop it - Russia & Ukraine’s populations will both suffer catastrophically - and that suffering will only lead to more suffering all around the globe in the long run in ways we can’t even predict right now.

When is a country with an incredible nuclear Arsenal actually deposed to lash out and use their nuclear weapons?  How about when the leader(s) of said country get backed into a corner and are desperate and crazed with fear & paranoia. 

If the kremlin find themselves in the right circumstances don’t think that they will not.  I can’t believe no one sees how delicate this situation really is. It must remain balanced.
But hey - keep pointing fingers at one another and throwing fuel on the fire like good little patriots.  See what that gets you.

Someone needs to throw some ice on the fire before we all get burned.  It’s out of control - and the media in the west and the east need to either help quell the craze or else.

The truth is we all need eachother.  The US needs Russia - Russia needs the US, etc etc.  everyone needs to come off their egos and start seeing that the narratives have spun out of control and by going along with it are inching the world closer and closer towards an even greater disaster of unprecedented proportions. 

The US wouldn’t tolerate Russia or China building and arming in the West - in fair play that means a balanced move dictates that Ukraine must remain neutral.  Only after it has resided as a buffer between Russia and the Eu for long enough for Russia and the US to have good relations on all fronts can it finally transcend being the monkey in the middle.

I wouldn’t be surprised that if behind closed doors everyone is talking  towards a peace of sorts.  There’s no way anyone can like the shadow of death looming large like it is with the way things are being presented in the public’s imaginations.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27698645 - 03/17/22 09:27 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Desperation is not a good ingredient in this. So in some ways I hope you are wrong.




Seriously.  The frenzy whipped up around the world over this is Not something good.  People all around are foaming at the mouth over things and it’s like all rational thought and common ground has gone out the door.  Truly frightening.  This escalation of tension and getting backed into corners - fear - fiasco is how really horrible world shaking poor choices play out.  I know there’s a middle ground through all the propaganda and extremes and both sides / all sides can be heard and spoken of with honesty in some form so that no one accidentally/intentionally does something even more catastrophic. / nukes, chem weapons, etc.

It’s truly astounding.  The talking heads on all “major” sides are banging the war drums with maximum ferocity.  Ultimatums and shit.  Totally clueless and removed from the reality of what is being brought to life by it in time just down the road.   





I mean, yeah.

Zelensky is a good example of desperation. He cried for a no fly zone due to desperation. Why those who are not in his situation echo that call? A horrid, trending, detachment from pertinent realities is the best I can come up with.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #27698648 - 03/17/22 09:31 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

It’s a terrible situation.  If Ukraine can’t become and remain neutral I don’t see how things can go well.  Zel and Ukraine are getting their hopes up if they believe for a second that a no fly zone is going to fly - or that they actually are going to end up in NATO or have NATOs true backing power of their military.  If they became part of NATO right now that would mean NATO must defend them with all its might.  Never going to happen.  Thus, an intermediate and peaceful neutral solution must be fought for if peace is to be in any form whatsoever.  For now Zel is just dragging his feet.  It’s not like this conflict started a few months ago.  It’s been unearthing for atleast 20 years in its current iteration.

Awful I know - but it’s the world stage and he’s playing with fire. The Kremlin no doubt calculated several moves ahead very well.  Ukraine just isn’t crucial enough to warrant the US being dragged into a full out war with the East.  So for now Zel and Ukraine are like a drowning man and the US and it’s allies can only offer them more water.  This is like the biggest tower of babble - miscommunication and misperception (and then some) event of my time.
  That’s sad. 


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

Edited by The Blind Ass (03/17/22 09:37 AM)

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass] * 3
    #27698654 - 03/17/22 09:40 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Good posts :thumbup:
I really do hope for de-escalation soon. I do not agree with the US feeding weapons over and over. We are so blood thirsty when it comes to potential power grabs. But this isn't a developing nation we are fucking with this time. This is a nuclear power that clearly feels drastic actions are needed.

This made me think of a story, heh. A buddy was talking about ice fishing with a mutual acquaintance. The acquaintance is a real blow hard. Never satisfied unless it's HIS way. So the two of them are out fishing and he's griping about the location. Wants to go to another spot. Whatever, fishing is fishing. So they agree, and the next morning they get up and go. They're walking out on the ice. It's early, it's dark, no moon to help. My buddy starts feeling uneasy. No one else is out on the lake. So he's like, time to stop, I'm not comfortable with this. Let's dig a hole and when I see how thick the ice is I'll feel more comfortable.

They put in the auger and not 2 rotations around they've hit water. For anyone who doesn't ice fish, that means the ice was super thin. Dangerously thin. So they sit there and wait for daylight. As the sun comes up, my buddy can see open water ahead of them. So they tiptoe their happy asses back to land.

Gotta love people who just know the better way without any forethought.

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27698670 - 03/17/22 09:51 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mach z 800 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
My job is a little bit the opposite. They don't really care if I go grocery shopping during normal hours. However, when I am needed I am needed. There's also the issue that I travel a lot and traveling is like the biggest waste of company hours ever, but it has to be done and they don't really monitor where I am.


thats the kind of job i want vs being in a big building all day long.




I end up with endless paperwork which why I browse here during the day. Lots of screen time when I’m not in the car or walking sites. I have to keep detailed reports from all my stops. There are days where i visit five locations and have to do a report for each one. Then there are days spent doing nothing but driving. I like the driving to some degree, and appreciate not being in the office. But visiting work sites only to fill out paperwork about that site gets old.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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InvisibleHomelessSorcerer
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
    #27698774 - 03/17/22 11:33 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Okay, I will be so bold as to suggest that Zelenskyy will be in Russian custody before the year is through.

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27698798 - 03/17/22 11:59 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Yeah. At the very least it looks like Russia is moving into the next phase. They are losing the information war but do not seem to care. Putin basically said fuck the populace, rise up if you dare and we will smite you too.

No reason to play even remotely nice with Ukraine at that point.




They aren't just losing the information war. The shooting war isn't going too well either.
Here's my synopsis. Lenin formed the Soviet Union. Gorbachev dissolved it, and Putin destroyed Russia. Regardless of how the Ukranian invasion ends up, Russia will be economically ruined. They are expected to default on their obligations for the first time since Lenin refused to pay the Czars debts. Putin is very ill physically and the disease or the treatment had clouded his judgement to an extreme degree. If he's even alive in five years, he will either be out of power, or in a crippled position. If he is deposed, whoever succeeds him will be digging themselves out of a very deep hole.




Putins sick! The ghost of Kiev stalks his every move!

The Russians have the Ukrainians surrounded from what I have heard. You wouldn't expect Zelensky to be running around begging for WW3 if they were doing so well right?

Economically, although Russia will certainly take a short-term hit they have calculated they will be better off divorced from a US/western financial system controlled by the US itself who -as this has all shown- can turn it on and off again as they please (or when displeased) using it to crush any who oppose their globalist aims (or any who have got too big for their boots). This is why India and China will never line up against Russia because they know that sooner or later what has happened to Russia will happen to them too.

There is no trust in the sanctity of western financial systems anymore the crisis in both Ukraine and in Canada have seen to that but the Russians -subject to constant sanctions in the past- realized this a long time ago and have been preparing to take this hit for years. I don't think we have!

They will definitely suffer in the short term, but allied with China, India and other emerging superpowers -who also know and have seen first hand they cannot trust the US/western banking/financial system- they will probably be better off in the long term with massive gold reserves and a gold/RMB backed rouble.

I think you are also forgetting the number of natural resources the Russians have, the increasing self-sufficiency of their manufacturing, and the markets/trade they will have access to in Asia and especially China. This is not an economy based on zeros and ones but is backed by actual/tradeable assets, and markets that the globalists themselves want access to (as they had, and plundered in the 90s).

They are taking a risk but they didn't decide to go ahead with this last week! They have been preparing for this while all the time the US has been sanctioning and threatening them with these kinds of measures (being cut off from SWIFT, etc.). For better or worse they like China knew they had to get out from under it.

I'd worry more about what consequences these sanctions will have on us rather than Russia! As by all accounts we unlike Russia and China are not prepared for the consequences of what we have just done!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: wolf8312]
    #27698835 - 03/17/22 12:33 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
They will definitely suffer in the short term, but allied with China, India and other emerging superpowers -who also know and have seen first hand they cannot trust the US/western banking/financial system- they will probably be better off in the long term with massive gold reserves and a gold/RMB backed rouble.

I think you are also forgetting the number of natural resources the Russians have, the increasing self-sufficiency of their manufacturing, and the markets/trade they will have access to in Asia and especially China. This is not an economy based on zeros and ones but is backed by actual/tradeable assets, and markets that the globalists themselves want access to (as they had, and plundered in the 90s).



That's naïve, Russia will be devastated by these sanctions. These sanctions are for real, like the kind used against Cuba and North Korea. They are no joke. North Korea likes to talk about how independent and self sufficient they are too, and look what they're like. In a year Russia is going to look a lot like North Korea.

That's why I'm honestly not too concerned about pushing for more, or doing other things. We don't even need to do anything at this point. We can just kick back and do nothing and the entire country will be plunged into destitute poverty, and won't pose anyone any threat anymore. Their online propaganda machine will be destroyed, they won't have the money to pay anyone's salaries (a word to the wise: if I were someone involved in that, I'd start looking for another job now...). The game is already over, and they don't even realize it yet. The best situation to be in is where you do nothing and the other side loses, and that's exactly where we are right now.

Also I take back what I said earlier, it looks like Russia is targeting civilians after all. Immediately after I said it, they made me look like a total fool for saying it, bombing a shelter full of children that had been clearly marked, so I guess that's what I get for thinking they have a shred of moral integrity.

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #27698840 - 03/17/22 12:40 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:


Also I take back what I said earlier, it looks like Russia is targeting civilians after all. Immediately after I said it, they made me look like a total fool for saying it, bombing a shelter full of children that had been clearly marked, so I guess that's what I get for thinking they have a shred of moral integrity.




False propaganda from Azov battalion, whom also staged the Mariupol hospital bombing.

I recommend reading this:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/neo-nazis-in-ukraine-fake-incidents-to-gain-more-western-support.html#more

Basically civilians were herded into the drama theatre at gunpoint, Azov mined the building then blew it up.

On the fortunate side, it appears that the civilians in the basement either weren't harmed by the explosion or - according to some other reports - Azov allowed the civilians to leave before they blew the building.

This is basically confirmed given that there has been zero photo evidence of any dead bodies from the drama theatre explosion. If there were victims, Azov would have posted them on social media within minutes. But it seems there were none.

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InvisibleHomelessSorcerer
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27698852 - 03/17/22 12:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

In the long term, in the interest of peace, NATO will have to be dismantled or at least reimagined.

One ought to concede that the West shares some culpability for what is happening in Ukraine.

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman]
    #27698873 - 03/17/22 01:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
They will definitely suffer in the short term, but allied with China, India and other emerging superpowers -who also know and have seen first hand they cannot trust the US/western banking/financial system- they will probably be better off in the long term with massive gold reserves and a gold/RMB backed rouble.

I think you are also forgetting the number of natural resources the Russians have, the increasing self-sufficiency of their manufacturing, and the markets/trade they will have access to in Asia and especially China. This is not an economy based on zeros and ones but is backed by actual/tradeable assets, and markets that the globalists themselves want access to (as they had, and plundered in the 90s).



That's naïve, Russia will be devastated by these sanctions. These sanctions are for real, like the kind used against Cuba and North Korea. They are no joke. North Korea likes to talk about how independent and self sufficient they are too, and look what they're like. In a year Russia is going to look a lot like North Korea.

That's why I'm honestly not too concerned about pushing for more, or doing other things. We don't even need to do anything at this point. We can just kick back and do nothing and the entire country will be plunged into destitute poverty, and won't pose anyone any threat anymore. Their online propaganda machine will be destroyed, they won't have the money to pay anyone's salaries (a word to the wise: if I were someone involved in that, I'd start looking for another job now...). The game is already over, and they don't even realize it yet. The best situation to be in is where you do nothing and the other side loses, and that's exactly where we are right now.

Also I take back what I said earlier, it looks like Russia is targeting civilians after all. Immediately after I said it, they made me look like a total fool for saying it, bombing a shelter full of children that had been clearly marked, so I guess that's what I get for thinking they have a shred of moral integrity.




Well, we'll see...

But no, as I said in the OP they ain't going to be going it alone like NK. What you are going to see probably (and what we are already seeing) is two separate blocs forming.

But what evidence do you have that the Russians are deliberately targetting civilians? I can't see what possible reason they would have for doing that. That's not based on a mainstream media report, is it?

Can we get the source?

I am trying to find an article I read today that already debunked about a million claims made up by the western propaganda machine. It is an absolute joke. At least they put some effort into the Saving Jessica Lynch propaganda narratives of old! Now it's just lazy (pictures from computer games, and old photos of Zelensky at the front line that can be disproved in minutes by anyone with an internet connection) and indicative of complete contempt for an audience they know full well won't check if they lied, or remember, or care that they lied anyway...


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27698885 - 03/17/22 01:23 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

nooneman said:


Also I take back what I said earlier, it looks like Russia is targeting civilians after all. Immediately after I said it, they made me look like a total fool for saying it, bombing a shelter full of children that had been clearly marked, so I guess that's what I get for thinking they have a shred of moral integrity.




False propaganda from Azov battalion, whom also staged the Mariupol hospital bombing.

I recommend reading this:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/neo-nazis-in-ukraine-fake-incidents-to-gain-more-western-support.html#more

Basically civilians were herded into the drama theatre at gunpoint, Azov mined the building then blew it up.

On the fortunate side, it appears that the civilians in the basement either weren't harmed by the explosion or - according to some other reports - Azov allowed the civilians to leave before they blew the building.

This is basically confirmed given that there has been zero photo evidence of any dead bodies from the drama theatre explosion. If there were victims, Azov would have posted them on social media within minutes. But it seems there were none.




Also, have to ask why? Multiple reports from foreign fighters say the Ukrainian army was using them as mere cannon fodder merely for propaganda purposes, sensing they were worth more to them dead than alive. 

Russia has nothing to gain from deliberately killing civilians as it is already losing the propaganda war and surely doesn't wish to alienate itself from what friends it does have (India China etc) by committing atrocities against civilians.

Ukraine on the other hand and especially the Azov battalions have plenty to gain from attacking civilians and inviting worldwide condemnation/isolation of Russia.

The crazy thing is by propagating and perpetuating this atrocity propaganda on behalf of the Azov battalions/Ukrainian government these people make WW3 more likely!

Small price to pay for a 'free' Ukraine!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: wolf8312]
    #27698915 - 03/17/22 01:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27698927 - 03/17/22 02:04 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

nooneman said:


Also I take back what I said earlier, it looks like Russia is targeting civilians after all. Immediately after I said it, they made me look like a total fool for saying it, bombing a shelter full of children that had been clearly marked, so I guess that's what I get for thinking they have a shred of moral integrity.




False propaganda from Azov battalion, whom also staged the Mariupol hospital bombing.

I recommend reading this:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/neo-nazis-in-ukraine-fake-incidents-to-gain-more-western-support.html#more

Basically civilians were herded into the drama theatre at gunpoint, Azov mined the building then blew it up.

On the fortunate side, it appears that the civilians in the basement either weren't harmed by the explosion or - according to some other reports - Azov allowed the civilians to leave before they blew the building.

This is basically confirmed given that there has been zero photo evidence of any dead bodies from the drama theatre explosion. If there were victims, Azov would have posted them on social media within minutes. But it seems there were none.




So azov bombed its own shelter in a fake flag operation to show the brutality of Russian attacks on civilians, but they didn’t manage to kill anyone even though  they were holding hostages there. This in a city with almost no foreign press, no electricity. Almost no internet service to propagandize anything. Makes a lot of sense :facepalm:



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/17/22 02:09 PM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: wolf8312]
    #27698938 - 03/17/22 02:14 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:






This rocket has been tracked back to Russian held territory. Remember these weapons leave a trail of parts that tell you which direction they come from (the outer casing is discarded to deploy the submunitions which continue to disperse down range) and they have a MINIMUM firing range of 20mi. That puts this attack coming from Russian positions.

Russia is absolutely shameless

Edited by koods (03/17/22 02:26 PM)

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 2
    #27698951 - 03/17/22 02:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:


This rocket has been tracked back to Russian held territory. Remember these weapons leave a trail of parts that tell you which direction they come from (the outer casing is discarded to deploy the submunitions which continue to disperse down range) and they have a MINIMUM firing range of 20mi. That puts this attack coming from Russian positions.

Russia is absolutely shameless





Blaming a Ukrainian rocket attack on Russia. Tell me, why would they bomb their own turf?

:facepalm:

You're shameless for believing every lie these idiots tell you.

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