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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27853672 - 07/07/22 02:24 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Falcon91Wolvrn03 is mainstream news confirmed

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's a tactic of the mainstream news; they expect most of their audience to only read the title and maybe the first paragraph or so.




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27853729 - 07/07/22 03:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Unfortunately, much of what we're sending now gets destroyed (as discussed above), gets sold on the black market, or end up in Russia's hands.



Ukraine has sold two French-donated 155mm Caesar howitzers to Russia




The article you cited provides no evidence and doesn't even claim to...

Quote:

Levy also says that he believes the two self-propelled howitzers were resold with the help of an intermediary, a military dealer. Levy, however, has no evidence for his claims




Quote:

On June 2, BulgarianMilitary.com revealed the sale of at least one FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank guided missile system on the dark web for $30,000. The seller is unclear, but according to the information posted on the darknet, the location [where the system will be shipped or picked up from] is Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine.





Wow, that sounds pretty damning.  If they have evidence of illegal arms sales, they may be on to something after all.  I'll just read further in the original article here to find the evidence and...got it:

Quote:

ABS News claims that the FGM-148 Javelin, which is sold in the dark network, is one of many anti-tank guided missile systems supplied by the United States to Ukraine because of its war with Russia. There is no way to prove this claim




Having now gone down your bulgarianmilitary rabbit hole I can confidently say you should read your cited sources more carefully before you post them if you don't want people to think you're engaging in dishonest tactics by promoting articles with headlines that aren't supported by the body of the text.



It's very interesting that you use information from the bulgarianmilitary.com website to try and show the bulgarianmilitary.com website is fake news.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27853751 - 07/07/22 03:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Try?

Catch-22: use information from bulgarianmilitary.com to show the website is fake news; but if the website is fake news, it's information is unreliable. Ergo, the website is not fake news.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 4
    #27853755 - 07/07/22 04:01 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Most people of any country
want peace for every country.

Большинство людей любой страны
хотят мира для каждой страны.









--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27853763 - 07/07/22 04:10 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Unfortunately, much of what we're sending now gets destroyed (as discussed above), gets sold on the black market, or end up in Russia's hands.



Ukraine has sold two French-donated 155mm Caesar howitzers to Russia




The article you cited provides no evidence and doesn't even claim to...

Quote:

Levy also says that he believes the two self-propelled howitzers were resold with the help of an intermediary, a military dealer. Levy, however, has no evidence for his claims




Quote:

On June 2, BulgarianMilitary.com revealed the sale of at least one FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank guided missile system on the dark web for $30,000. The seller is unclear, but according to the information posted on the darknet, the location [where the system will be shipped or picked up from] is Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine.





Wow, that sounds pretty damning.  If they have evidence of illegal arms sales, they may be on to something after all.  I'll just read further in the original article here to find the evidence and...got it:

Quote:

ABS News claims that the FGM-148 Javelin, which is sold in the dark network, is one of many anti-tank guided missile systems supplied by the United States to Ukraine because of its war with Russia. There is no way to prove this claim




Having now gone down your bulgarianmilitary rabbit hole I can confidently say you should read your cited sources more carefully before you post them if you don't want people to think you're engaging in dishonest tactics by promoting articles with headlines that aren't supported by the body of the text.



It's very interesting that you use information from the bulgarianmilitary.com website to try and show the bulgarianmilitary.com website is fake news.




No, it really isn't.  That's like, step one of verifying information from news media.  First check to see if the body of the article contradicts or otherwise nullifies the claims in the headline.

In any event, I wasn't "trying to show the bulgarianmilitary.com website is fake news".  I was simply cursorily reading the article you cited and found these admissions right there in the text :shrug:


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: christopera]
    #27853850 - 07/07/22 05:39 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Does Sky do evening news that is just "entertainment" like Fox News does with Tucker Carlson or does Sky actually do real news?




Yes thats a good description of how it works. Its been called the Jekyl and Hyde news network.

They do reasonable news reporting during the day followed by obnoxious right wing commentators after 7.30pm.
That guy was one of the daytime journos.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Asante]
    #27853868 - 07/07/22 05:54 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Most people of any country
want peace for every country.

Большинство людей любой страны
хотят мира для каждой страны.
хотят мир для всех стран.












Fixed your grammar.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27854117 - 07/07/22 10:11 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I wasn't "trying to show the bulgarianmilitary.com website is fake news".  I was simply cursorily reading the article you cited and found these admissions right there in the text :shrug:



Fair enough, but I've seen a lot of similar information.  Here's a report from RT who actually made contact with one of the sellers, though they didn't finish the transaction.

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/7012


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Asante]
    #27854120 - 07/07/22 10:14 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Most people of any country
want peace for every country.

Большинство людей любой страны
хотят мира для каждой страны.











Then why would Russia invade Ukraine?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #27854141 - 07/07/22 10:44 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

1.  NATO expansion too close to its borders
2.  Mistreatment of ethnic Russians in Donbas
3.  Recognition of Crimea and the Independence of Donbas (both of which happened in 2014)
4.  Ukraine's unwillingness to discuss any of the above


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27854170 - 07/07/22 11:26 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

What that doesn't mean u can just invade a sovereign nation and kill people are you insane?

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Offlinemycot
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Kryptos]
    #27854189 - 07/07/22 11:55 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

@ CHeifM4sterDiezL
Different scenarios present a number of options. A disagreeable course of action may be taken to prevent something much worse. And that may be for all parties concerned.


Quote:

Asante said:
Most people of any country
want peace for every country.

Большинство людей любой страны
хотят мира для каждой страны.
хотят мир для всех стран.









This would appear to make them non-racist. :bow2:

Edited by mycot (07/07/22 11:58 PM)

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #27854248 - 07/08/22 01:39 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Thank you for clarification, i don't feel it's the case anyway.
I think you can see from my posts I set aside and support my own thought.
I'm not much in racial jokes and cliche, but being honest i have to say Asian people in my city often drive really bad, even worse than locals (who already drive bad). Being this a common cliche around the world and not believing there is some genetical predisposition to drive safe, i have to suppose thieir driving standards are bad.
I don't really care about cars safety, i say that cars are only safe before being bilt and after being demolished.
Also i find the debate on chinese cars vs tesla a bit silly.
Its quite obvious China is going to be the worlds factory, eventually they'll set their standard to ours (at least for cars exported to west) and blow up western producers, full electric or hibrid, karaoke mic or not.

Just this story of the karaoke mic is so funny, don't you agree?




Yes the karaoke post's were a good laugh, christopera has a great sense of humour.

I don't think you're being overly racist, Chinese drivers do have a bad reputation.
Saying that, I found it quite challenging driving in Vancouver so maybe I shouldn't criticise the Chinese! There's no way I'd drive in Thailand either, it's organised chaos.

Whilst I don't agree with your posts 100% I've enjoyed reading them and think your English is pretty good. Keep posting :super:

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Offlineiggyhiggy
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27854301 - 07/08/22 04:42 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
In the 60's, "made in Japan", meant junk for any kind of product. I wonder if China can make that kind of transformation?




I'd bet so. there are signals in this direction in other industries like electronics and textile. Not saying they will, but that they will eventually be able to.
ATM i think they have the priority to satisfy a growing inner request for goods that need to be cheap.
Textile/apparel industry is a good example of that: less than 20 yrs ago Chineese products were synonimous of bad imitation and shitty quality. Many Italian fashion industries went there to exploit low salaries, but bringing there good raw materials and designers. Today most of Italian top products are produced in China but labels, who are put on the clothes here to make them legally made in Italy. In the meanwhile a lot of chinese 'fake' became undistinguishable from the original and I also bet they made their own brand of good quality products.
If they'll have interest and will, they'll eventually do the same with cars.
I think the real question here is 'where will the car market go?'

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Offlinevaroan
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #27854483 - 07/08/22 08:31 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

If one of the Russians main concerns is Nato expansion, I expect a response to Finland (and Sweden) attempting to join.  Otherwise it just looks like Russia is attacking whoever they can find an excuse to.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: iggyhiggy]
    #27854492 - 07/08/22 08:40 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
In the 60's, "made in Japan", meant junk for any kind of product. I wonder if China can make that kind of transformation?




I'd bet so. there are signals in this direction in other industries like electronics and textile. Not saying they will, but that they will eventually be able to.
ATM i think they have the priority to satisfy a growing inner request for goods that need to be cheap.
Textile/apparel industry is a good example of that: less than 20 yrs ago Chineese products were synonimous of bad imitation and shitty quality. Many Italian fashion industries went there to exploit low salaries, but bringing there good raw materials and designers. Today most of Italian top products are produced in China but labels, who are put on the clothes here to make them legally made in Italy. In the meanwhile a lot of chinese 'fake' became undistinguishable from the original and I also bet they made their own brand of good quality products.
If they'll have interest and will, they'll eventually do the same with cars.
I think the real question here is 'where will the car market go?'




If they can approach a Japan-like quality to products in general, whether cars or not, they will be pretty much unstoppable. They have a huge labor force of workers, that are Chinese workers. I can't speak for all Western labor markets, but I would bet on their workers over ours.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: varoan] * 1
    #27854506 - 07/08/22 08:53 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

varoan said:
If one of the Russians main concerns is Nato expansion, I expect a response to Finland (and Sweden) attempting to join.  Otherwise it just looks like Russia is attacking whoever they can find an excuse to.




Wars are always about territory. I never believed any other explanation for this war. Ukraine wasn't on the verge of joining NATO. They probably wanted to, but we were cautious about that kind of friction. So now they're going to have all of Scandanavia in NATO, and Western Europe and other allies upping their defense budgets significantly. Russia does gain some affinity with countries who are anti-U.S., but I don't see them getting a net advantage on cost-benefits.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27854514 - 07/08/22 08:58 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

iggyhiggy said:
Thank you for clarification, i don't feel it's the case anyway.
I think you can see from my posts I set aside and support my own thought.
I'm not much in racial jokes and cliche, but being honest i have to say Asian people in my city often drive really bad, even worse than locals (who already drive bad). Being this a common cliche around the world and not believing there is some genetical predisposition to drive safe, i have to suppose thieir driving standards are bad.
I don't really care about cars safety, i say that cars are only safe before being bilt and after being demolished.
Also i find the debate on chinese cars vs tesla a bit silly.
Its quite obvious China is going to be the worlds factory, eventually they'll set their standard to ours (at least for cars exported to west) and blow up western producers, full electric or hibrid, karaoke mic or not.

Just this story of the karaoke mic is so funny, don't you agree?




Yes the karaoke post's were a good laugh, christopera has a great sense of humour.

I don't think you're being overly racist, Chinese drivers do have a bad reputation.
Saying that, I found it quite challenging driving in Vancouver so maybe I shouldn't criticise the Chinese! There's no way I'd drive in Thailand either, it's organised chaos.

Whilst I don't agree with your posts 100% I've enjoyed reading them and think your English is pretty good. Keep posting :super:




I went to the University of Illinois for 11 years. it's usually top four in engineering, and filled with Chinese grad students. Other than I can't understand my T.A., driving was a big complaint.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27854596 - 07/08/22 10:29 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Russia does gain some affinity with countries who are anti-U.S., but I don't see them getting a net advantage on cost-benefits.



True, but will the West come away with a net advantage on cost-benefits for keeping the war going?

Ukraine just announced they're going to need another $750 billion to cover reconstruction.



Plus, all the Western companies that are now struggling as a result of the sanctions.

German energy giant seeks government bailout

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (07/08/22 10:37 AM)

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27854737 - 07/08/22 12:24 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I know you trust CNN.

Obviously this CNN article is biased, putting an interesting spin on a new law just passed there that requires those outlets to tell the truth about the Ukraine war.  I wished we had the same law in the US.




Reuters: Moscow city councillor gets seven years' jail for anti-war comment

Quote:

"What kind of children's drawing contest can we talk about for Children's Day ... when we have children dying every day?"

He was arrested under Article 207.3 of the criminal code, passed shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24 to outlaw "deliberate dissemination of fake information about Russia's army", defined as information deviating from official reports.




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