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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27689911 - 03/10/22 03:35 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: I think all four of those demands are various levels of irrationality, ranging from insulting to outright stupid, specifically the fifth demand (that you neglected to mention): the complete and permanent disarmament of Ukraine.

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ballsalsa said: Those are vassal terms. Some real Roman shit.

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koods said: So what you’re saying is the free people of Ukraine only have to submit to the demands of a fascist dictator.
Ukraine massacred 14,000 of their own people and refused to stop killing them even after 8 years. They absolutely should be disarmed. They can't be trusted with heavy weaponry - clearly the Nazi's quickly take over and will use it on innocent people.
The more important point though is that the country must be de-Nazified. That means the radical Nazi ideology, which had the support of the US CIA and State Department, and which emanated from Western Ukraine can no longer be tolerated in the country.
No more holidays celebrating the life of Nazi warcriminals like Bandera. No more streets named after Nazi's.
Once that's finished, we can talk about Ukraine re-arming itself militarily. However, this should also include certain conditions - no more US-funded bioweapons labs, no nuclear weapons, and no NATO. Period.
It's fine if they stay a conventional power, but it's not fine if radical Nazi zealots take it back over and once again use said conventional power to terrorize civilians like they have done for the past 8 years.
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 1
#27689918 - 03/10/22 03:46 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it were up to koods, kryptos and ballsalsa Ukraine would have been allowed to go on their major offensive on Donbass and threatened the lives of the 1.5 million people in Donetsk and Luhansk.
You guys wouldn't have batted a fuckin' eye as they rampaged through and slaughtered countless people. "It's their sovereign territory! Who cares about them! The media didn't mention it so clearly it's not important!"
And once again it would have been the end of the world if Russia dared to do something about it. *Even* if Russia had only launched a limited operation only to stop the UA advance on Donbass. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Damn the hypocrisy makes me sick.
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27689925 - 03/10/22 03:50 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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We should get Putin over here to denazify the Republican Party
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christopera
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27689929 - 03/10/22 03:54 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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There’s nothing quite like a Jewish Nazi, is there?
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
#27689933 - 03/10/22 03:59 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Somebody posted this on twitter. I think it's quite appropriate for this discussion:

Next they will whitewash the Nazi's in Ukraine like they did the Syrian Al-Qaeda.
Heh, they're just moderate Nazi's! Keep sending them the CIA cash!
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
#27689934 - 03/10/22 04:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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A Jew winning 75% of the vote in a nazi state is a real sign of progress.
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27689937 - 03/10/22 04:05 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: Somebody posted this on twitter. I think it's quite appropriate for this discussion:

Next they will whitewash the Nazi's in Ukraine like they did the Syrian Al-Qaeda.
Heh, they're just moderate Nazi's! Keep sending them the CIA cash!
I think you’re confused. We don’t buy your premise that Ukraine is run by nazis.
Every western country has nazi and they gravitate towards military service. (and trump rallies and trucker convoys)
 Fine people in Charlottesville
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (03/10/22 04:09 PM)
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27689946 - 03/10/22 04:17 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here we go with that tired old excuse.
Tell me why Zelensky turned a blind eye to the neo-nazi's in his own country if he is such a proud jew?
Tell me why he allowed them to enshrine a national holiday celebrating Stepan Bandera, earning Ukraine the nickname "Banderastan"?
Need I remind everyone who he is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
Quote:
In late 1942, when Bandera was in a German concentration camp, his organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a massacre of Poles in Volhynia and, in early 1944, ethnic cleansing also spread to Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that more than 35,000 and up to 60,000[65] Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia, and up to 100,000 if other regions, such as Eastern Galicia, are included.[66][67]
The fact that Zelensky is a jew means absolutely zilch. It only means he's a coward who couldn't do anything about the neo-nazi's in his own country. I've already stated - several times - that in 2019, when he asked the neo-nazi militant groups to respect the Minsk agreements, the Nazi's not only disobeyed but they openly threatened to kill him. This was not an empty threat, given they had already carried out tens of assassinations and they were not reprimanded or jailed for a single one of them.
Ultimately Zelensky himself caved to their will. Even now he does their bidding, dragging out the war and arming civilians even though the situation is absolutely hopeless. Thousands of people will die because of his refusal to negotiate. Not that he has much of a choice, though - if he does anything seen as "capitulating" to Russia then the Nazi's will murder him and they will certainly get away with it.
This is why it's so important that the country is de-nazified. There is simply no way Ukraine can ever return to normal life with these hardcore murderers running the show and killing anyone that opposes them. They would keep Ukraine in a permanent, never-ending state of warfare. Of-course that's exactly what Washington wants, so it's no wonder they made a decision to support them.
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27689960 - 03/10/22 04:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
I think you’re confused. We don’t buy your premise that Ukraine is run by nazis.
Every western country has nazi and they gravitate towards military service. (and trump rallies and trucker convoys)
 Fine people in Charlottesville
Ah, so you're on step 2. Got it.
Where you're wrong is that not only was there a very high concentration of them in Ukraine, abnormally so, but they occupied positions in government and in the police. They also basically run the Ukrainian SBU - Ukraine's intelligence service.
Nobody could seriously oppose them. Not even the president of Ukraine. Hence why the attacks and shelling on Donbass *never* stopped and the Minsk agreements were torn to shreds. I don't think anybody that wasn't a hardcore radical seriously opposed pursuing peace in Donetsk and wanted to ethnically cleanse the people there. Unfortunately, the "regular" people did not have enough power to prevent the radicals from doing exactly that.
Ukraine is a good example of how a radicalized minority can completely take over a country and terrorize the people into submission so long as they have sufficient personnel, funding, outside support, control over the media and are willing/capable to kill anyone that threatens their agenda. They ticked all of these boxes.
The terror campaigns these people unleashed on former pro-Russian areas they controlled between the time they took over in 2014 and the Russian intervention in 2022 is astounding. I read one report that they had killed some 200 people from the city of Kharkov and detained hundreds more. When you wage terror campaigns like that, the rest are absolutely too afraid to speak out.
Freeing the country from these bandits is an absolute priority, and for good reason.
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 2
#27689962 - 03/10/22 04:30 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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You have twisted yourself into such a pretzel your head is up your own ass. You are politically allied with nazis and nobody should take you seriously.
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
#27689985 - 03/10/22 04:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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British government has seized the assets of oligarch Roman abromawitz, including the Chelsea soccer club.
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27689994 - 03/10/22 05:00 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: If it were up to koods, kryptos and ballsalsa...

Is your position so weak you need straw men to knock down? How does my pointing out that the terms are untenable for any sovereign nation equate to...whatever you said.
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shivas.wisdom
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Zelensky could have prevented the invasion from happening in the first place, and he certainly has the power to stop it right now if he wanted.
Every war in the history of war could have been prevented by submitting to the demands of the aggressor. That's not "pointing out a reality of the Russian invasion that puts Russia in a less negative light" - it's deflecting from the fact that the Russian state unilaterally chose to start a war against the population of Ukraine.
Anything less than unambiguously denouncing the Russian state as the aggressors in this invasion is carrying water for warmongering rulers. Talk all you want about how the USA, the EU, NATO, the West, or the Ukrainian state are culpable in the greater context of the regional geopolitics, but anything less than unambiguously denouncing the Russian state as the aggressors in this invasion is carrying water for warmongering rulers.
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#27690046 - 03/10/22 05:56 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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How exactly could zelensky have avoided an invasion that Russia denied was going to happen up until the moment it happened?
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
#27690059 - 03/10/22 06:07 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well he could have tried to declare Ukraine a neutral country, and stop the war in Donbass.
These two points would have been sufficient to stop the invasion.
Problem is, he would have been killed if he tried this. The media would just then cover it up as much as possible (or blame it on Russia), divert attention away from the fact he was assassinated and quickly install some new fanatic to replace him.
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27690069 - 03/10/22 06:14 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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What even is a neutral country and how does a mere declaration confer this neutral status?
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27690073 - 03/10/22 06:15 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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So all he had to do was comply with the demands that didn’t exist to prevent the surprise invasion
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27690076 - 03/10/22 06:16 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, just casually give up some territory to foreign backed rebels. No biggie
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Enlil
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 4
#27690083 - 03/10/22 06:21 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: So all he had to do was comply with the demands that didn’t exist to prevent the surprise invasion
She could have stopped the rape at any time by just agreeing to have sex.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
#27690132 - 03/10/22 07:22 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Russia Will Stop 'In a Moment' if Ukraine Meets Terms
Quote:
1) Ukraine cease military action 2) Ukraine change its constitution to enshrine neutrality 3) Ukraine acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory 4) Ukraine recognize the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states
Which of these do you believe is irrational?
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Kryptos said: I think all four of those demands are various levels of irrationality, ranging from insulting to outright stupid
I wished you would explain, but let's look at them:
1) Ukraine cease military action
What irrational, insulting, or stupid about that? Do you believe Ukrainians have the right to kill thousands of people in Donbas? Nevermind, I think you haven't thought these through. 
Quote:
Kryptos said:specifically the fifth demand (that you neglected to mention): the complete and permanent disarmament of Ukraine.
I didn't neglect to mention them, the news did. Specifically US News & World Report, but I found many others that said the same.
Source, or make believe?
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