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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: budmanman] 1
#27672133 - 02/24/22 06:36 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
budmanman said: Russian today site not loading.
Ya, it was down for a bit. I can load it again.
Calls to ban RT in UK show what politicians really think of free speech
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


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So it's time for them to reclaim the motherland or what ?
Patiently waited
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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Mach z 800
Stranger


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enkidu] 1
#27672273 - 02/24/22 08:38 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Watch "The REAL Reason Putin is Invading Ukraine" on YouTube
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ArchStanton66
Neophyte



Registered: 02/24/21
Posts: 5
Loc: Zone 6
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Mach z 800] 3
#27672355 - 02/24/22 09:49 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ukrainians mounting a respectable defense right now compared to the odds they are currently facing. Seems that the Russians are, for the time being, mounting as light of an offensive as possible as they move to encircle Kyiv (where I assume the end goal would be to install a pro-Russian government).
Could be to keep from making a bad situation worse as far as international community sanctions are concerned in keeping Nord Stream 2 / SWIFT access viable in the nearer term.
Not even certain if removal from the SWIFT system is actually on the table given the reliance on Russian oil/nat gas in the EU. Nothing like knee-capping yourself with reliance on foreign energy from, of all people, Vladimir Putin.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enkidu] 1
#27672360 - 02/24/22 09:52 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: So it's time for them to reclaim the motherland or what ?
Patiently waited
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stable Genius
Radicalised


Registered: 09/26/18
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Loc: Wide Bay Orstralia
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The US agreed not to expand NATO eastward around the time East Germany reunited with West Germany.
West promised not to expand NATO
I'm not convinced this is some sort of smoking gun that proves much 
In the minutes of that meeting, this was also said Quote:
'We could not therefore offer membership of NATO to Poland and the others. We might however consider referring to our interest in these countries in future NATO declarations.'
That doesn't sound like an unwavering promise that carries any weight to me?
Also NATO's website says
Quote:
Claim: NATO promised Russia it would not expand after the Cold War
Fact: Such an agreement was never made. NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 – and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership.
The idea of NATO expansion beyond a united Germany was not on the agenda in 1989, particularly as the Warsaw Pact still existed. This was confirmed by Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
Declassified White House transcripts also reveal that, in 1997, Bill Clinton consistently refused Boris Yeltsin's offer of a 'gentlemen's agreement' that no former Soviet Republics would enter NATO: "I can't make commitments on behalf of NATO, and I'm not going to be in the position myself of vetoing NATO expansion with respect to any country, much less letting you or anyone else do so…NATO operates by consensus."
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27672573 - 02/25/22 03:11 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think there is any point to try to argue with Falcon or Ecstatic that we didn't promise to not expand NATO eastward. They both think that the fact that any such agreement was made without the OK of the President of the United States (Clinton or HW Bush) is not relevant.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Stable Genius
Radicalised


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#27672579 - 02/25/22 03:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's right, it's beyond bureaucrats to be able to offer such an assurance so it's a redundant argument
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
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Last seen: 9 months, 28 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Enkidu said: So it's time for them to reclaim the motherland or what ?
Patiently waited

What the fuck are you shaking your head at
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enkidu] 1
#27672585 - 02/25/22 03:37 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said:
What the fuck are you shaking your head at
My eyes.
Quote:
Shooting bullets, the swords pronounced from their nutshell cased lives with the energy of the mullet. The ocean fishes, fast becoming like a flash, exploding in population, driving fast along the coastline. These bullets and swords, getting lost and found again in nets and the mouths of sharks become like bone meal, grinding through with their power, going back to where they came from. This energy of force and evolution, much like a fire, yet so compacted and so confined like pure water in a glass, or a bottle of wine tipping over and spilling onto the floor with a shatter. SO fast and so delicious, so deadly and so pretentious the changing force upon them echoes with the boom as a spark ignites in a small tube and sends a heavy element into a heart, bursting it like a balloon.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
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Quote:
insanebloodbrain said: Given the terrible choice, i would feel more confident with Trump as the POTUS in this situation. Bidens drooling-tarded inability to speak feels very unreliable and unsecure lol. He sounds like hes going to pull a Stalin and suddenly run and hide in disbelief and shock
WTF!?? Stalin can be criticized for a lot of things, but running and hiding was never on the list. I would ask you to explain that comment, but it's probably not worth anyone's time.
If Trump was President, the Generals would be explaining to him, the way you talk to a child, that no we aren't going to assist with the invasion to liberate Ukraine. Trump has been cheerleading Putin on this, and he's trying to backtrack now, but even most Republicans are wishing he would just shut up.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Mach z 800
Stranger


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ArchStanton66] 1
#27672718 - 02/25/22 07:15 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ArchStanton66 said: Ukrainians mounting a respectable defense right now compared to the odds they are currently facing. Seems that the Russians are, for the time being, mounting as light of an offensive as possible as they move to encircle Kyiv (where I assume the end goal would be to install a pro-Russian government).
Could be to keep from making a bad situation worse as far as international community sanctions are concerned in keeping Nord Stream 2 / SWIFT access viable in the nearer term.
Not even certain if removal from the SWIFT system is actually on the table given the reliance on Russian oil/nat gas in the EU. Nothing like knee-capping yourself with reliance on foreign energy from, of all people, Vladimir Putin.
im hopping Ukraine can hold Russia off until other countries are able to step in an try an make Russia back off.
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Mach z 800
Stranger


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#27672722 - 02/25/22 07:20 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
insanebloodbrain said: Given the terrible choice, i would feel more confident with Trump as the POTUS in this situation. Bidens drooling-tarded inability to speak feels very unreliable and unsecure lol. He sounds like hes going to pull a Stalin and suddenly run and hide in disbelief and shock
WTF!?? Stalin can be criticized for a lot of things, but running and hiding was never on the list. I would ask you to explain that comment, but it's probably not worth anyone's time.
If Trump was President, the Generals would be explaining to him, the way you talk to a child, that no we aren't going to assist with the invasion to liberate Ukraine. Trump has been cheerleading Putin on this, and he's trying to backtrack now, but even most Republicans are wishing he would just shut up.
face it if trump was in office Putin would of never attempted this. Putin knows trump is fast to respond an is as calculated as Putin is an they had a mutual respect.
After seeing how biden handled Afghanistan Putin seen weakness from American an seen the opportunity to gear up for an invasion. He knows biden is slow to respond an hes weak on top of that.
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



Registered: 08/31/13
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Mach z 800] 1
#27672734 - 02/25/22 07:43 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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@bj It's hilarious how you infer the generals WOULDNT BE TALKING to biden the exact same way.
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
Edited by theRealrollforever (02/25/22 07:44 AM)
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: @bj It's hilarious how you infer the generals WOULDNT BE TALKING to biden the exact same way.
Sort of, Biden's slow witted too, except Biden wouldn't be on Putin's side. I'm thinking grasping the obvious is not one of your strong points.
Also, the things you capitalize and don't capitalize, are you trying to recreate the Sex Pistols album cover or something? Never mind.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#27672827 - 02/25/22 09:29 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Trump is too rich and greedy to let someone else rule the world
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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He's greedy, but he's getting less rich by the minute paying his defense attorneys.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Psilynut2
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Mach z 800] 1
#27672833 - 02/25/22 09:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
face it if trump was in office Putin would of never attempted this. Putin knows trump is fast to respond an is as calculated as Putin is an they had a mutual respect.
After seeing how biden handled Afghanistan Putin seen weakness from American an seen the opportunity to gear up for an invasion. He knows biden is slow to respond an hes weak on top of that.
What happened to us not being the worlds police ? I get you will blame Biden for literally anything anyone else chooses to do all on their own , but why do you think we should be part of this at all ? Why should Americans die ? Why do you want to see American soldiers die over this is what I mean ?
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Kryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2] 3
#27672870 - 02/25/22 10:13 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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The thesis I see from a lot of Republicans is that by virtue of Trump being in office, none of this would have ever happened because Trump is just so powerful that he doesn't even need to do anything, he would have just prevented it.
Of course, he does need to plant his ass in the right chair. Apparently, he does not have that same power in the wrong chair.
A bit like the pope.
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Mach z 800
Stranger


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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: @bj It's hilarious how you infer the generals WOULDNT BE TALKING to biden the exact same way.
these generals told biden the right way to evacuate Afghanistan. Instead he ignored there advice an ended up making huge mess🙄. There is no excuses for how bad of a fuck up it was.
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