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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28648892 - 02/06/24 11:53 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Putin and his buddies certainly helped themselves
:loldongs:




So did Biden and his boy... and Pelosi and her husband.. What's ya point bruv?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28648896 - 02/06/24 11:58 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
:crankey: There are no other likely suspects






:crankey: Yeeeeeah!


God damn that's a damn good clip bro. The fact that so many chumps believe the propaganda on this one is one of the craziest things I've seen in recent history.

I didn't realize Pompeo tacitly suggested blowing up the pipeline (in an "undiplomatic" way)...


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28648897 - 02/06/24 12:00 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Weird because the free market was supposed to help Russia.




  You still have to help yourself in a free market .  Maybe it was just a bad idea in a country full of people used to depending on the govt .




What does it say about capitalism that a terminal, planned economy provided better results for people




Considering that the largest economic entities in our capitalist system are terminal planned economies that exist primarily due to government picking up the slack...

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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28648903 - 02/06/24 12:05 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

It had a ton of funding for stuff they wanted to.
It’s not a good thing that the House of Representatives refuses to do its job.

It’s actually making the Republicans look like a bunch of assholes that like bringing around the same bucket of water to anyone who will hold it.

“ please can you help us fill this bucket with border security?”

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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28648909 - 02/06/24 12:08 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Weird because the free market was supposed to help Russia.




  You still have to help yourself in a free market .  Maybe it was just a bad idea in a country full of people used to depending on the govt .




What does it say about capitalism that a terminal, planned economy provided better results for people



It's a poor comparison.  USSR and Russia are very different sizes.  If you add in all the former Soviet states, how does it compare?  Or better yet, correct the USSR GDP values to be more comparable to the current Russian land mass.  My guess is it is still a poor showing, but better than this appears.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28648922 - 02/06/24 12:15 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
It's a poor comparison.  USSR and Russia are very different sizes.  If you add in all the former Soviet states, how does it compare?  Or better yet, correct the USSR GDP values to be more comparable to the current Russian land mass.  My guess is it is still a poor showing, but better than this appears.




I was actually thinking the same thing... But I didn't wanna say it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28649045 - 02/06/24 01:36 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Weird because the free market was supposed to help Russia.




  You still have to help yourself in a free market .  Maybe it was just a bad idea in a country full of people used to depending on the govt .




What does it say about capitalism that a terminal, planned economy provided better results for people



It's a poor comparison.  USSR and Russia are very different sizes.  If you add in all the former Soviet states, how does it compare?  Or better yet, correct the USSR GDP values to be more comparable to the current Russian land mass.  My guess is it is still a poor showing, but better than this appears.




Also have to take into account the lack of global industrialization, especially with regards to China, while comparing the two.

I did find this article:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/04/raw-data-russian-gdp-1989-2016/

GDP per citizen went down after the dissolution of the USSR, stagnated, and has ticked up considerably since Putin’s reign began.




And it’s not like any of the former Warsaw Pact states are doing better.


The point here is that the West destroyed communism because it was a threat to capital (I think this is pretty obvious), but was done so under the guise of trying to spread prosperity and democracy to places which had none. This never materialized. After the Korean War, we at least used the Jap war criminals and gangsters to fund an industrial economy in South Korea, but that’s because South Korea was never a threat to our hegemony. Russia has been a threat to Western hegemony for a millennia, so rather than do some Marshall Plan or something in post-Soviet Russia and the eastern bloc, we did just a leveraged buyout, with the goal of weakening Russia (especially amidst a rising China). This is why Putin is such a threat in the way Yeltsin never was, he’s recovered the Russian economy despite sanctions, and is actively projecting power.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28649114 - 02/06/24 02:40 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The point here is that the West destroyed communism because it was a threat to capital (I think this is pretty obvious), but was done so under the guise of trying to spread prosperity and democracy to places which had none. This never materialized. After the Korean War, we at least used the Jap war criminals and gangsters to fund an industrial economy in South Korea, but that’s because South Korea was never a threat to our hegemony. Russia has been a threat to Western hegemony for a millennia, so rather than do some Marshall Plan or something in post-Soviet Russia and the eastern bloc, we did just a leveraged buyout, with the goal of weakening Russia (especially amidst a rising China). This is why Putin is such a threat in the way Yeltsin never was, he’s recovered the Russian economy despite sanctions, and is actively projecting power.




Persuasive.

:freewilly:



....... :splooge:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28649124 - 02/06/24 03:02 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Actually almost all Eastern European countries are doing much better. East Germany, a given ofc - Poland, Czech, .....
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania especially Killin it, Romania is doing sooooo much better than in 1990 - many of those countries gdp/capita is 10-20x higher than 1990

Hell basically every country aside from the CIS states is doing better than Russia.

The fact that Russia contained the ruling class of the USSR became a liability in the split - as those were the best positioned people to take advantage of a ripe environment for corruption.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28649138 - 02/06/24 03:15 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Sure, it ended poorly, but what’s important is that the Russian people decided to embrace capitalism and democracy.

Oh wait, they didn’t. Gorbachev literally shelled parliament and dissolved the USSR against the will of its people.



Well it doesn't matter what the Russians thought much when the Warsaw pact and a bunch of USSR countries split on their own accord.

And Gorbachev didn't shell the parliment? I think you're thinking of the drama in 1993 with yeltsin. By the time the 1991 coup attempt by kgb/hardliners rolled around events were very far underway.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28649148 - 02/06/24 03:24 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

A cumshot is the proper emoji to signify the demise of communist tendencies. I will admit, the US did put its BootHeel down on the accelerator, but on the other side, the flawed ideology of communitst governance  contributed (if not the most) to its own demise.

I can think of no better example than  China....one can argue what type of communism China is, but....what has the US done to thwart their rise? Oh, I know, buy just about every fucking trinket they make.

How is their economy doing now? Is it the USAs fault? Or could it be (gasp) they have an inferior political ideology? Whats that with internet searches? How many kids could you have....but they don't wear Mao suits on bikes anymore.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (02/06/24 03:41 PM)

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28649183 - 02/06/24 04:08 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Funny thing is - the US has been divesting from China fairly markedly since the Russian invasion.

Obviously everyone's always known investing in geopolitical rivals can be a pretty big liability that comes to bear very suddenly but I don't think the message really hit home and got enough steam until we saw how it affected Europe


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¿Check out some art m8?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28649225 - 02/06/24 04:29 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
A cumshot is the proper emoji to signify the demise of communist tendencies. I will admit, the US did put its BootHeel down on the accelerator, but on the other side, the flawed ideology of communitst governance  contributed (if not the most) to its own demise.

I can think of no better example than  China....one can argue what type of communism China is, but....what has the US done to thwart their rise? Oh, I know, buy just about every fucking trinket they make.

How is their economy doing now? Is it the USAs fault? Or could it be (gasp) they have an inferior political ideology? Whats that with internet searches? How many kids could you have....but they don't wear Mao suits on bikes anymore.




China's economy has been an imminent implosion risk since like, two major recessions ago at least.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead]
    #28649227 - 02/06/24 04:30 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Not just the US, the world as a whole is extremely skeptical. China is doing the worst thing one can do, not admit to the market the truth. Trying googling the market conditions while in China, this article wont populate....proof in the pudding.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/china-economy-beijing-refuses-admit-broken-down-failing-structural-issues-2024-2%3famp


Through the second half of 2023, the gap between China's impressive official data and visibly underwhelming consumer demand, unresolved local government debt problems and an unprecedented drop in foreign direct investment was stark," wrote Daniel H. Rosen and Rachel Lietzow, a partner and research analyst at the research firm, respectively. Rosen, who leads Rhodium Group's work on China, was a senior adviser for international economic policy at the White House National Economic Council and National Security Council from 2000 to 2001.

Despite this, Beijing didn't quite fix its fundamental problems and was instead pulling other moves like wooing foreign investment and threatening those critical of its flailing economy.

In other words, "policymakers did next to nothing to tackle the real structural problems," Rosen and Lietzow wrote in their report.

Part of that is because Beijing hasn't admitted that its economy is in trouble.


Chinese leader Xi Jinping said on New Year's Eve that the country's economy is "more resilient and dynamic than before," even as he acknowledged that some businesses were having a "tough time."

Rhodium Group's researchers aren't quite sure about the rosy narrative of China's economy, calling it a "politicized picture of economic activity."

After all, China's economy struggled to regain traction after a brief spurt post-pandemic, disappointing investors.

"In the first quarter of 2023, recovery was expected, but doubts arose by the second quarter. By the second half of the year, confidence had broken down entirely," wrote the Rhodium Group researchers.


Even though Beijing claimed China outperformed its GDP growth target of 5%, authorities were still in "a running battle to roll out extraordinary support measures," Rhodium wrote.

"As 2024 gets underway, new emergency steps to prop up stock markets are being added to the mix, yet another sign that all is not well," they added.

At the end of the day, official Chinese statistics haven't "conceded this reality" of a loss in market confidence and economic troubles, they wrote. And while a recovery this year is possible, it's only because the property market has crashed stupendously.

"That recovery will be real, but cyclical and transitory," they wrote. "Long-term stability will still require urgent market reforms, and the present danger will be that recovery makes the pain associated with real reform harder to justify."


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28649254 - 02/06/24 04:54 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

I make no claims to the perfection of the Chinese economy, but I do think that there are geopolitical and economic aspects to assessments of the Chinese economy, especially by companies heavily funded by the biggest (western) investment companies in the world.

Something tells me that the top "urgent reform" needed is "allowing BlackRock to buy the Chinese stock market and allow BlackRock executives to populate the boards of the profitable companies".

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28649274 - 02/06/24 05:17 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)



https://on.rt.com/corr

The meltdowns will be hilarious

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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28649285 - 02/06/24 05:27 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Yeah, it sounds like Tucker Carlson is having a real meltdown. He thought he was important enough to get kidnapped by Russia. He wasn’t.

:haha:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 4
    #28649293 - 02/06/24 05:30 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #28649322 - 02/06/24 05:43 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

I don't find it hilarious. I find it damning that there isn't someone better than Tucker Carlson interviewing Vlad. Let's face it... Carlson doesn't disagree with Putin in the majority of his politics, which is the reason why Putin would ever agree in the first place. Fake Mr. Tucket is a puppet of religious, neofeudal authoritarianism. Putin is, in that part of the world, a neofeudal king. There will never be something headlining from someone who actually has people in mind. They do not care about actually making anything better. People like Carlson are completely cool reinforcing the continual erection of facades, namely churches. Putin and Carlson like when children are brainwashed into religion, especially when, in tandem, religion coerces kids into a fervent nationalism as they get older.

And, frankly, screw him. If Simone De Beauvoir was alive, she'd utterly trash him in an open debate. It makes you wish Christopher Hitchens was still alive! Boy, wouldn't that be nice?!


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
the Dutch gay purge & pogrom
𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙.
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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28649343 - 02/06/24 05:57 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

:laugh2:  Keep ‘em comin  :popcorn:

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