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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28631654 - 01/23/24 02:25 AM (4 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:


It will take the collective west not months but years to match Russia’s weapons production. What do you think they’ve been doing for the last decade + since the U.S. began backing Kyiv?



massive lulz

"In 2022 the following new military aircraft were delivered:
    Su-57 x 6 (KnAAZ)
    Su-35S x 7 (KnAAZ)
    Su-34M x 10 (NAZ)
    Su-30SM2 x 4 (IAP)"


The US delivered 142 F-35s alone in the same year.





Would you classify aircraft the same as missiles? I wouldn’t. Same with 155mm shells.

Lockheed Martin are flat out producing somewhere around 600 Patriot missiles a year.

From memory the EU was only able to produce about 1/3 of the 155mm shells they promised.



The US doesn't follow the WW1 strategy of massed artillery & trench warfare. They use complete air dominance as superior CAS, to delete air threats and counterstrike enemy launch assets - US opponents are afraid to ever turn on their radar to aquire a target in the first place. The US doesn't need to produce the same families of equipment because what they have does the job better.

The EU has shit for military procurement though yes


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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman]
    #28631720 - 01/23/24 05:38 AM (4 days, 15 hours ago)

Theres talk of Putin invading AK:eek:


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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman]
    #28631723 - 01/23/24 05:48 AM (4 days, 14 hours ago)

Last week they said theres going 2 be a stalmate due 2 the winter weather Now they are saying No its actually gonna b WW3 wtf?? Even Sweden is getting ready Not good


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: oursoulsinmotion] * 1
    #28631738 - 01/23/24 06:08 AM (4 days, 14 hours ago)

Chops has never heard of the Sierra Army Depot. There is a reason we don't produce a large amount of military vehicles.  We have 26k of them sitting in a parking lot in the desert.  Similar with weapons stocks.  If the US needs to ramp production, it can.  :shrug:

  Low "blank" individual 1: "US make 600/yr lol, that not many"

  Galaxy Brain individual 1: "The US hasn't needed to ramp production as stocks have been sufficient, that doesn't mean they can't"

  Low "blank" individual 2: "Russia produce lots, see they aren't running out"

  Galaxy Brain individual 1:  "That Russia has had to ramp production to the absolute maximum is a definitive indicator they have run low on stocks and now must ration.  Further reinforced by procuring surplus from notoriously unreliable NK stocks.  Further reinforced by the decrease in number of missile and artillery fired per day, despite operational objectives seemingly not being met."


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28631748 - 01/23/24 06:35 AM (4 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Russia couldn't out produce us when it comes to anything . Thats completely ridiculous .

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Industry




Yes. We're outproducing Russia on everything except for tanks, IFV's, artillery shells, air defense missiles, air defense systems, artillery guns, multiple rocket launcher platforms, electronic warfare systems, cruise + ballistic missiles, and drones of all types including strike, recon and suicide.

Lmao. :rofl:

I actually wrote in one of my posts a few months ago that Russia was making more of everything than us except for jet aircraft and surface vessels. And it turned out to be true. The company behind the Lancet drone actually bragged that they were on track to manufacture 1 million Lancets in the next year. To have that many suicide drones is practically unthinkable for us.

It's actually comical how few munitions the US/NATO have in some areas, and how few we are producing due to the massive costs incurred by MIC bloat. We only have 3500 Tomahawks for example, which is enough for a few weeks of fighting with either Russia or China at best. Even less now after we bombed Yemen the other day. And we're manufacturing like 1 per day. This is also why we are having such a difficult time keeping Ukraine supplied with PGM's and air defense missiles. It will soon be totally impossible to resupply them with these critical weapons.

You can't win a war with airpower alone. Russia understands this.

Russia not only outproduces us on almost all of the most important systems but they do it at 1/20th the price. It shouldn't cost 8 million for a single PAC-3 interceptor. Our military industrial complex is a fucking scam.




Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I doubt chops's as old as me.  Probably younger than you.  He writes like a 20 year old who just discovered politics but claims to have voted for Obama once, iirc so that would mean close to 30, at least, if true.

I'm old enough to have owned and worn out this shirt:




I'm a 32 year old millennial.

You perceive me as a "20 year old who just discovered politics" because I have managed to maintain my ability to actually care about shit. For you supporting Nazis in Ukraine guilty of rape/torture/murder is just par for the course. You don't care. It's just normal empire shit, I guess.

It's tough to bother caring all the time, I'll give you that. Being in a state of perpetual anger and annoyance is draining. Maintaining any kind of hope for the future is also draining.

I rag on GC for being inexperienced because it's obvious he actually is an 18-22 zoomer who just discovered politics, and it shows. No offense to the guy.

My theory is that millennials are a little bit more well rounded and varied in their politics because we didn't get access to social media until we were almost graduating high school. We got to experience the internet in its glory days before it became what it is now.




Your world view is exactly 32 year old millennial. I'd be surprised if you ever left your state, let alone North America.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
    #28631753 - 01/23/24 06:43 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

It's the age where political thought solidifies.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: oursoulsinmotion] * 1
    #28631765 - 01/23/24 06:56 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

i
Quote:

oursoulsinmotion said:
Theres talk of Putin invading AK:eek:




:strokebeard2:

Quote:


Dated November 2023..
State TV propagandists routinely float the idea of either striking or seizing the territory of NATO members. The pair suggested Russia could invade the U.S. states of Alaska, California or Hawaii





:lolsy:

Russia can’t invade europes poorest country but they are going to invade cali? one of the worlds largest economies?

Russia can’t control the Black Sea from a country with no blue water navy yet they will invade Hawaii? Home to a larger naval fleet than most countries.

Russia with a winter stalemate in Ukraine going on year two but will invade the frozen land they sold to us hundredish years ago??

Delusional is an understatement.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
    #28631787 - 01/23/24 07:26 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

Yeah the US gets out manufactured on substandard vehicles and munitions. I wonder why that is....oh yeah, we dumped the trench warefare strategy decades ago.


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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28631830 - 01/23/24 08:06 AM (4 days, 12 hours ago)

There's probably some question as to the long term efficacy of the US doctrine when fighting someone more competent than dirt farmers with AKs.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #28631850 - 01/23/24 08:24 AM (4 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
I'm a 32 year old millennial.

You perceive me as a "20 year old who just discovered politics" because I have managed to maintain my ability to actually care about shit.




Hear me out...

Quote:

chopstick said:
I voted for Obama in 2012. I was only 21 at the time and still clueless politically.
[...]
I imagine it was the same feeling that some of the people on this forum have towards us today. The difference between us and them is that we grew out of it and they didn't.
[...]
Then I fell into that Ukraine rabbithole in 2014 and never crawled out of it.
[...]
It's crazy to think how naive I was between the ages of like 18-22.




Perhaps you're perceived this way because you got pulled into some online propaganda in your early twenties for your first taste of political thought and never developed past it.

Because no one who grew out of their naivety holds the following opinion about any world leader.

Quote:

chopstick said:
The thing about Putin is that he is honest, he does not lie.




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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28631866 - 01/23/24 08:41 AM (4 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
There's probably some question as to the long term efficacy of the US doctrine when fighting someone more competent than dirt farmers with AKs.




If anything, our doctrine is primarily geared toward actual modern near-peer adversaries.  The efficacy breaks down when invading dirt farmers with AKs.  It's cheap and easy to replace dirt farmers with AKs.  Replacing tanks, jets, ships and IFVs is a taller order.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28631875 - 01/23/24 08:49 AM (4 days, 11 hours ago)

:whathesaid:

our doctrine was/is based on countering mass soviet tank formations coming across europe.

hence the first gulf war against the 3rd largest land army being such a breeze. it fit the doctrine perfectly.

its why ukraine has been able to hold off russia. its 70yrs of doctrine being applied.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28631891 - 01/23/24 09:05 AM (4 days, 11 hours ago)

Yeah. And the part that I question is if US doctrine has accounted for armor columns also being surprisingly easy to replace. Gulf war is great and all, but Iraq wasn't exactly printing T-54s or whatever.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28631894 - 01/23/24 09:08 AM (4 days, 11 hours ago)

Your posts are so annoying. Just saying.

Putin is honest?? What sort of crack are you smoking?


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Offlinegopher
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28631950 - 01/23/24 09:52 AM (4 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
almost graduating high school? im older than you and i had internet in middle school where you live?

are proud boys nazis?




I think he means Facebook and such, I didn't make a Facebook account till I was 17, actually someone made it for me I didn't even make it

But there was Myspace before Facebook, I didn't have one of those either, but they were around

I'm 35 this month

An then there was geocities, I barely remember geocities

In middle school I played RuneScape and neopets and ganagwars, didn't really play on social media just games and sites like gamefaqs


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28631986 - 01/23/24 10:29 AM (4 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Yeah. And the part that I question is if US doctrine has accounted for armor columns also being surprisingly easy to replace. Gulf war is great and all, but Iraq wasn't exactly printing T-54s or whatever.




Bruh, Russia is mounting anti-sub  naval rocket launchers on mt-lb armored tractors.  They can't keep up with losses from Ukrainian fpv drones.  How on earth could they keep up with what the USAF would rain down?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28631999 - 01/23/24 10:39 AM (4 days, 10 hours ago)

I suspect that those drones are cheaper and more plentiful than anything the USAF can rain down.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28632023 - 01/23/24 11:00 AM (4 days, 9 hours ago)

Well, except those drones themselves.  It would be naive in the extreme to think the US isn't both aiding drone development and taking notes on Ukraines experience with them.  Every country is learning some lessons from this conflict.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28632042 - 01/23/24 11:17 AM (4 days, 9 hours ago)

Absolutely. I simply think that US military intelligence is currently taking a lot of notes and heavily modifying their doctrines. Mostly because I don't think US doctrine allowed for prolonged combat operations, prior to Ukraine. The assumption was that a modern war would be over quickly.


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28632054 - 01/23/24 11:32 AM (4 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
Your posts are so annoying. Just saying.

Putin is honest?? What sort of crack are you smoking?




Yours aren't?

You are geopolitically dumb and I can only surmise the only reason you are here is to kill time and annoy people by going off topic, not because you care about the war in Ukraine.

You don't know anything about Russia, or Ukraine.


Quote:

mushboy said:
almost graduating high school? im older than you and i had internet in middle school where you live?

are proud boys nazis?





I don't know enough about the proud boys to call them nazis or not. I don't follow them, I don't care about them. Infact I try to ignore domestic politics as much as possible because it is a clown circus show that reflects how retarded our nation is becoming.

My standard for being a nazi is shit like worshipping stepan bandera, flying swastika flags and engaging in violence against perceived enemies. And not just shoving someone at a protest, but actually murdering and torturing people like the Ukrainian groups have done.

If they do all or some of those things, sure, they're probably nazis. The modern leftist democrat definition of a nazi, which is anyone they don't like or voted for Trump, on the other hand has lost all meaning and is basically worthless.


Quote:

Ice9 said:
Chops has never heard of the Sierra Army Depot. There is a reason we don't produce a large amount of military vehicles.  We have 26k of them sitting in a parking lot in the desert.  Similar with weapons stocks.  If the US needs to ramp production, it can.  :shrug:





Sure. I have heard numbers like this thrown around before. But the caveat is, how many of these vehicles are in working, operable, combat capable condition?

I'll give an example. The US has something like 7k Abrams tanks. However, only a much smaller number are actually in a workable enough of a condition to be deployed for combat, and that is something like 2k out of the 7k. Those numbers might be off as I'm going off the top of my head but the proportions should be accurate.

To restore all 7k to a usable condition would be a herculean effort and would probably require manufacturing a bunch of spare parts we presently don't have available. You would also have to modernize all of the older variants to current spec. Again, a herculean effort.

I had someone try to argue with me on Reddit a long time ago that there is no way Ukraine will ever run out of tanks because we could just send them like 500 Abrams tanks at any time. In reality, we can't and won't do this because it would result in a big drawdown in the numbers of our combat ready tanks. Maintenance and training would also be a nightmare.


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