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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28627416 - 01/19/24 03:59 PM (8 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
oh they have reasons they are just really dumb.




They felt their national security was at risk. We've invaded countries for far less.



So you supported Vietnam, Iraq & Afgan then by the same measure :themoreyouknow:


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28627433 - 01/19/24 04:10 PM (8 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
oh they have reasons they are just really dumb.




They felt their national security was at risk. We've invaded countries for far less.



So you supported Vietnam, Iraq & Afgan then by the same measure :themoreyouknow:




I don't support any country invading any country. Try again, twiggy.

All I said was, there were reasons, clearly. That dumbass line has been thrown around a lot in this thread... And it ought to be pointed out.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (01/19/24 04:11 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #28627438 - 01/19/24 04:13 PM (8 days, 4 hours ago)

There are reasons to kick an old man down a flight of stairs....


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28627441 - 01/19/24 04:14 PM (8 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
There are reasons to kick an old man down a flight of stairs....




Some of them are even quite good.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28627455 - 01/19/24 04:22 PM (8 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
oh they have reasons they are just really dumb.




They felt their national security was at risk. We've invaded countries for far less.



So you supported Vietnam, Iraq & Afgan then by the same measure :themoreyouknow:




I don't support any country invading any country. Try again, twiggy.

All I said was, there were reasons, clearly. That dumbass line has been thrown around a lot in this thread... And it ought to be pointed out.



MY bad it seems like most of your posts are supporting Russia lel


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead]
    #28627466 - 01/19/24 04:31 PM (8 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
MY bad it seems like most of your posts are supporting Russia lel




Nah.

I don't support Russia. I just think it would be better for Ukraine to come to the negotiating table sooner, rather than later. I think they are going to lose more than they otherwise would have (Not just in human lives (Which is the most important thing), but also territory).

In my view, the military aid that is being provided to Ukraine is just delaying the inevitable, and thousands of Ukrainians, and Russians are dying for no reason.

You dig?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 4
    #28627551 - 01/19/24 05:41 PM (8 days, 2 hours ago)

I don't see any sign of Russia being capable of taking any more land than they have - nor any sign that they were willing to give up land they had the least claim to (i.e. kherson/zaporizhzhia or crimea for that matter) in a peace deal

Ukraine isn't the only country fatigued by the war, and modern history is filled with examples of wars that ultimately ended in the defenders favor; not because they out fought the imperial power, but because they managed to fight until political fatigue set in and forced withdrawal.

Furthermore I think the notion that the US is somehow responsible for them having the will to fight, or somehow forcing them to be complete BS - Ukranians aren't weak spined, even if completely overran they would very likely be fighting a concerted guerilla war.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28627575 - 01/19/24 06:11 PM (8 days, 2 hours ago)

Why is it BS? You’ve had nearly every friggen person in Congress blow wind up their arse for the last decade and tell them the world’s top military will back them for as long as it takes.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28627645 - 01/19/24 06:56 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
There are reasons to kick an old man down a flight of stairs....




Schopenhauer kicked an old lady down a flight of stairs for being too loud.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28627649 - 01/19/24 06:59 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
I don't see any sign of Russia being capable of taking any more land than they have - nor any sign that they were willing to give up land they had the least claim to (i.e. kherson/zaporizhzhia or crimea for that matter) in a peace deal

Ukraine isn't the only country fatigued by the war, and modern history is filled with examples of wars that ultimately ended in the defenders favor; not because they out fought the imperial power, but because they managed to fight until political fatigue set in and forced withdrawal.

Furthermore I think the notion that the US is somehow responsible for them having the will to fight, or somehow forcing them to be complete BS - Ukranians aren't weak spined, even if completely overran they would very likely be fighting a concerted guerilla war.




Not just modern history but all of written history.  It didn't work for Germany either time they over extended themselves though because everyone was too pissed to stop


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #28627660 - 01/19/24 07:16 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Why is it BS? You’ve had nearly every friggen person in Congress blow wind up their arse for the last decade and tell them the world’s top military will back them for as long as it takes.



Because they're not just defending themselves because the US is giving them weapons - plenty of other countries have put up staunch resistance to much more powerful militaries for longer with less.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28627671 - 01/19/24 07:28 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
I don't see any sign of Russia being capable of taking any more land than they have - nor any sign that they were willing to give up land they had the least claim to (i.e. kherson/zaporizhzhia or crimea for that matter) in a peace deal




That's certainly debatable. I tend to agree with The_Ecstatic:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I’d be surprised if this conflict makes it to summer. No way Ukraine maintains this relative stalemate with once the battlefield thaws, especially since the U.S. has a newer shinier vassal state through which to wage war against its enemies.




In which case, Russia certainly could take more land, and probably will. Also, I don't see how Russia has the least claim to Crimea. From what I understand, Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian people in the first place, and they prefer Russia to Ukraine. Russia has already claimed Crimea... At this point, if Russia has any claim to any part of Ukraine, Crimea is certainly it.

Quote:

Ukraine isn't the only country fatigued by the war, and modern history is filled with examples of wars that ultimately ended in the defenders favor; not because they out fought the imperial power, but because they managed to fight until political fatigue set in and forced withdrawal.

Furthermore I think the notion that the US is somehow responsible for them having the will to fight, or somehow forcing them to be complete BS - Ukranians aren't weak spined, even if completely overran they would very likely be fighting a concerted guerilla war.




I never said the US is forcing them to fight. Their government certainly is, though. A very significant portion of Ukraine's army is made up of conscripts who are snatched off bus stops and street corners. These people would much prefer a peace deal. They are being sent to almost certain death, and it's not necessary.

Anyways, I'm not trying to win you over. I think people's minds are pretty well made up on this issue, and I will have to agree to disagree with many people here, and that's just how it is.

I just wanted to clarify... I do not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I would prefer that my country focused on problems at home, rather than paying the pensions of Ukrainians, and funding an unnecessary proxy war with Russia.

Look, when the US military says it's doing something altruistic.. well, that's just never the case. Anyone who thinks it is at this point, is a sucker. The facade of altruism is the simplest means of manufacturing consent.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Onlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28627685 - 01/19/24 07:37 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I never said the US is forcing them to fight. Their government certainly is, though. A very significant portion of Ukraine's army is made up of conscripts who are snatched off bus stops and street corners. These people would much prefer a peace deal.





Wow  :facepalm:


--------------------
:rave::rave::rave: I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ; :raver2::raver2::raver2::raveface:


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28627701 - 01/19/24 07:54 PM (8 days, 47 minutes ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Imagine a president as bad as Trump being able to talk with Russia.



Source RT




Economically Biden is as shitty as trump, and socially trump is just less freedoms, hence why the tark te Russia bout it!


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28627705 - 01/19/24 07:58 PM (8 days, 43 minutes ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
oh they have reasons they are just really dumb.




They felt their national security was at risk. We've invaded countries for far less.



So you supported Vietnam, Iraq & Afgan then by the same measure :themoreyouknow:




I don't support any country invading any country. Try again, twiggy.

All I said was, there were reasons, clearly. That dumbass line has been thrown around a lot in this thread... And it ought to be pointed out.




Then you have no issue with criticisms of Russia invading Ukraine, and wouldn't be so hypocritically as to assume Russia require vitriol.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28627721 - 01/19/24 08:04 PM (8 days, 37 minutes ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

twighead said:
I don't see any sign of Russia being capable of taking any more land than they have - nor any sign that they were willing to give up land they had the least claim to (i.e. kherson/zaporizhzhia or crimea for that matter) in a peace deal




That's certainly debatable. I tend to agree with The_Ecstatic:

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I’d be surprised if this conflict makes it to summer. No way Ukraine maintains this relative stalemate with once the battlefield thaws, especially since the U.S. has a newer shinier vassal state through which to wage war against its enemies.




In which case, Russia certainly could take more land, and probably will. Also, I don't see how Russia has the least claim to Crimea. From what I understand, Crimea is mostly ethnic Russian people in the first place, and they prefer Russia to Ukraine. Russia has already claimed Crimea... At this point, if Russia has any claim to any part of Ukraine, Crimea is certainly it.

Quote:

Ukraine isn't the only country fatigued by the war, and modern history is filled with examples of wars that ultimately ended in the defenders favor; not because they out fought the imperial power, but because they managed to fight until political fatigue set in and forced withdrawal.

Furthermore I think the notion that the US is somehow responsible for them having the will to fight, or somehow forcing them to be complete BS - Ukranians aren't weak spined, even if completely overran they would very likely be fighting a concerted guerilla war.




I never said the US is forcing them to fight. Their government certainly is, though. A very significant portion of Ukraine's army is made up of conscripts who are snatched off bus stops and street corners. These people would much prefer a peace deal. They are being sent to almost certain death, and it's not necessary.

Anyways, I'm not trying to win you over. I think people's minds are pretty well made up on this issue, and I will have to agree to disagree with many people here, and that's just how it is.

I just wanted to clarify... I do not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I would prefer that my country focused on problems at home, rather than paying the pensions of Ukrainians, and funding an unnecessary proxy war with Russia.

Look, when the US military says it's doing something altruistic.. well, that's just never the case. Anyone who thinks it is at this point, is a sucker. The facade of altruism is the simplest means of manufacturing consent.




It seems like your saying, if the US didn't provide support to Ukraine you'd be more critical of Russia's invasion.


--------------------
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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: sudly]
    #28627722 - 01/19/24 08:04 PM (8 days, 36 minutes ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Imagine a president as bad as Trump being able to talk with Russia.



Source RT




Economically Biden is as shitty as trump, and socially trump is just less freedoms, hence why the tark te Russia bout it!




Less freedoms? I don't know about that. I suppose they have brought us back on abortion rights, but Biden has attempted to take us backwards on free speech rights. Free speech is obviously more important. Dems also have their own problems with issues of bodily autonomy (see vaccines).


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28627738 - 01/19/24 08:11 PM (8 days, 29 minutes ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
It seems like your saying, if the US didn't provide support to Ukraine you'd be more critical of Russia's invasion.




No. What I'm saying is that, while I am critical of Russia's invasion, I'm also critical of the United States' involvement in any of it, and I'm skeptical about what is actually being accomplished by it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28627775 - 01/19/24 08:50 PM (7 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Imagine a president as bad as Trump being able to talk with Russia.



Source RT




Economically Biden is as shitty as trump, and socially trump is just less freedoms, hence why the tark te Russia bout it!




Less freedoms? I don't know about that. I suppose they have brought us back on abortion rights, but Biden has attempted to take us backwards on free speech rights. Free speech is obviously more important. Dems also have their own problems with issues of bodily autonomy (see vaccines).




Freedom means that private businesses are allowed to protect themselves by not allowing unvaccinated people to enter their private property, freedom doesn't mean trampling over other peoples freedoms, it's a two way road.

Free speech hasn't gone backwards at all, you still can't threaten people. What's gone backwards in regard to free speech?

Roe V wade provided bodily autonomy with stipulations, removing Roe V wade has taken freedom away from millions, a woman has even been taken to court for having a miscarriage etc.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread.b [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28627776 - 01/19/24 08:50 PM (7 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

sudly said:
It seems like your saying, if the US didn't provide support to Ukraine you'd be more critical of Russia's invasion.




No. What I'm saying is that, while I am critical of Russia's invasion, I'm also critical of the United States' involvement in any of it, and I'm skeptical about what is actually being accomplished by it.




Then you have no issue with criticisms of Russia invading Ukraine, and wouldn't be so hypocritically as to assume Russia require vitriol.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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