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mycosis


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27739003 - 04/17/22 04:36 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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President Zelensky promoted Navy Commander Oleksii Neizhpapa to vice-admiral for his role in that unfortunate accidental fire aboard the Moskva.
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
#27739006 - 04/17/22 04:39 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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My friend is a waiter here in DC and his boss has been in Ukraine for the past week helping to distribute meals and the Russians bombed their kitchen this morning.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
koods said: I don’t think you have a clue what actual journalism is
And I don't think you do a very good job of applying critical thinking or considering conflicting opinions as you think you know everything already. Your agenda is predetermined, which is quite ignorant, which equates to stupidity.
I don’t think you are applying critical thinking when the only source reporting the destruction of the munitions factory is the Russian ministry of defense.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27739046 - 04/17/22 05:02 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Some good news: looks like the Moskva sank very quickly and most of the crew was lost.
Half the crew survived and you wonder why I choose to have a look around and go snooping elsewhere.

Ignorance is a choice you know.
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koods
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
koods said: Some good news: looks like the Moskva sank very quickly and most of the crew was lost.
Half the crew survived and you wonder why I choose to have a look around and go snooping elsewhere.
Igor said everyone survived the accidental fire 
What a petty complaint. “Most” is one more than “half”
Edited by koods (04/17/22 05:17 PM)
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 1
#27739081 - 04/17/22 05:24 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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And what a ridiculous argument for 'most' 240 of the crew survived!
Like I said, you think you know it all, are unable to adjust your point of view, or admit you're wrong, which in this case you are, again.
Also most of the major news outlets are now reporting what Igor Konashenkov said. Lets see if this is confirmed and if RT News is right again.
And you wonder why I dig the Falcon's take on things compared to yours screw listening to your hysteria
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koods
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27739094 - 04/17/22 05:32 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: And what a ridiculous argument for 'most' 240 of the crew survived!
Like I said, you think you know it all, are unable to adjust your point of view, or admit you're wrong, which in this case you are, again.
Also most of the major news outlets are now reporting what Igor Konashenkov said. Lets see if this is confirmed and if RT News is right again.
And you wonder why I dig the Falcon's take on things compared to yours screw listening to your hysteria 
How the fuck am I wrong? If 240 survived then more than 240 died. Most of the crew died.
Definition of most 1 : greatest in quantity, extent, or degree the most ability 2 : the majority of most people
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chopstick
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] 2
#27739160 - 04/17/22 06:21 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Hey chopstick, can you provide the sources you're using when making the claim that the Ukrainian state has killed ~14,000 people in eastern Ukraine over the last 8 years?
That has nothing to do with your anarchist Russian fifth columnist "friends" essentially being compromised CIA stooges. Or at-least, acting like it.
But I will answer you anyway.
The claim comes from Russian and DPR sources. This is the only one I could find, most search results are drowned out by MSM trash and pro-Ukraine sources: https://tass.com/politics/1417543
You are free to believe or disbelieve - I could truly care less. I do know one thing though, the Wikipedia numbers you threw out in the past are 100% garbage, little more than manipulated trash designed to make it look like Ukraine is responsible for killing less people than they actually did. This isn't surprising since Wikipedia has lost its original purpose and now pushes propaganda as fact in many, many articles. For example, the War in Donbass Wiki article immediately comes up as "Russian invasion of Ukraine since 2014." This is a blatant and absurd lie.
Anybody still using Wikipedia, unless it's strictly for non-political articles where no agenda would or could be present, is doing themselves a massive disservice.
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Psilynut2
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman]
#27739177 - 04/17/22 06:36 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Article 40 guarantees a home—that is, a place to live—to all citizens, and it requires the government to provide housing to people who cannot afford it. Article 41 guarantees the right to health care and medical services. Article 42 commits the government to provide compensation to people who have been injured or who suffer ill health because of violations of environmental laws. Article 43 guarantees the right to free higher education if they pass a competitive entrance examination.
Sounds better than what we have. 
Constitutionally protected rights that protect me from the govt. I wasn't talking about how much free shit we get . Like if I want to go on tv and say special operation is bad . I can . That's cool though buuutttt .....
Quote:
The 2021 Health Care Index lists Russia’s system as 58th best out of 89 countries, with a very low score for quality of infrastructure. A Bloomberg report ranks Russian healthcare last out of 55 developed countries based on the efficiency of state healthcare systems.
https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/russia.php
If I had to guess why I would say govt corruption . I've seen the free apartment blocks too , no thank . I'll work for my shit .
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The Ecstatic already talked about this.
I know he was all
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My brother in Christ.
It is the year 2022. Nigga Please
He probably thinks the shitty free healthcare is our fault too .
Are you currently being forced to invade a a country you share a border with because of a made up crisis ? Were you forced to go Iraq or Afghanistan ? Probably not due to the fact that we have the freedom to speak out about our govt's wars without the fear of being arrested .
Edited by Psilynut2 (04/17/22 06:38 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#27739182 - 04/17/22 06:42 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Weird, because wikipedia led me to official casualty reports from both DPR and LPR, since they were used as sources for their section on casualties of the Ukrainian conflict. Seems like it's a much better starting point than Putin’s unsourced guess.
LPR: >2,000 killed since 2014 Source (published 25/03/22): https://lug-info.com/en/news/more-than-2-000-civilians-killed-since-kiev-launched-war-against-donbass
DPR: 5042 killed since 2014 Source (published 18/02/22): https://eng.ombudsman-dnr.ru/the-overview-of-the-current-social-and-humanitarian-situation-in-the-territory-of-the-donetsk-peoples-republic-as-a-result-of-hostilities-in-the-period-from-12-and-18-february-2022/
Why is Putin’s number 2x higher than these numbers?
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Psilynut2
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman]
#27739193 - 04/17/22 06:50 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
the ecstatic said: stop with this childish belief that Americans have some unique sense of freedom, especially in the middle of a conversation about who is credulously consuming propaganda.
Whathefuckever.
As of 2021, Russia ranked 150 out of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index compiled by Reporters Without Borders.[2] In the 2017 Freedom House Freedom of the Press report Russia scored 83 (100 being the worst), mostly because of new laws introduced in 2014 that further extended the state control over mass media.[3] Freedom House characterized the situation as even worse in Crimea where, after the 2014 annexation by Russia, both Russian jurisdiction and extrajudicial means are (according to Freedom House) routinely applied to limit freedom of expression.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia
Edited by Psilynut2 (04/17/22 06:51 PM)
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Stable Genius
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: A good way to start is by taking care that you don't misrepresent the conflict in eastern Ukraine as completely one-sided.
I've seen the number 14,000 casualties as of 2022 - but a breakdown reveals 4,641 Ukrainian forces killed, 5,772 separatist forces killed, and 3,393 civilians killed.
This was my source for the numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
That's February 2022
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Weird, because wikipedia led me to official casualty reports from both DPR and LPR, since they were used as sources for their section on casualties of the Ukrainian conflict. Seems like it's a much better starting point than Putin’s unsourced guess.
LPR: >2,000 killed since 2014 Source (published 25/03/22): https://lug-info.com/en/news/more-than-2-000-civilians-killed-since-kiev-launched-war-against-donbass
DPR: 5042 killed since 2014 Source (published 18/02/22): https://eng.ombudsman-dnr.ru/the-overview-of-the-current-social-and-humanitarian-situation-in-the-territory-of-the-donetsk-peoples-republic-as-a-result-of-hostilities-in-the-period-from-12-and-18-february-2022/
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Why is Putin’s number 2x higher than these numbers?
Good question.
Is there a reasonable explanation why the numbers you are quoting also vary by 2 x ?
After all we want to take care not to misrepresent the conflict, that'd be one sided.
And hey! you're lucky it's me asking, koods would be asking why yours vary by the most.
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Stable Genius
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https://www.timesofisrael.com/locals-shooting-at-locals-ukrainians-hunt-russian-saboteurs-outside-kyiv/
Irpin, Bucha, Brovary check out the locations on a map.
Quote:
‘Locals shooting at locals’: Ukrainians hunt Russian saboteurs outside Kyiv Resident of a village near Ukraine’s capital claims paratroopers from Russia ‘hide in the woods, enter people’s apartments, take their clothes, change and try to walk around’
Armed men stand at a check-point in the city of Brovary outside Kyiv, on March 1, 2022. (Genya Savilov/AFP)
IRPIN, Ukraine (AFP) — The Ukrainian special forces commander inspected the remains of a bridge his teams had blown up at the gates of Kyiv and explained his strategy for fighting Russian “saboteurs.”
“We have our agents living with the locals,” Spear unit commander Viktor Chelovan said.
“If strangers come into our villages, people send us signals, call us, and we go out and take care of these saboteurs.”
A fear of Russians disguised as locals is gradually gripping Ukraine.
Shelia and his friends began digging a trench in front of their building to lob Molotov cocktails at the Russian tanks.
Yet they also decided to keep a close eye out for people who look like they do not belong.
“The other day, with my guys, we stopped a car that some local people had tipped us off about,” Shelia said a few minutes before Kyiv entered its nightly curfew — another measure aimed at better fighting intruders.
“There were four people inside with two maps of Ukraine, two laptops and everyone had two Ukrainian passports: the first was the new version, the second the old one,” he said.
“We immediately called the police. Everyone was arrested and taken away.”
Who's killing the most civilians? Hard to know exactly.
You'd be a fool to believe it's only the Russian military though until the truth comes out, if it ever comes out, especially when there's been reports like this from Israel, of all places.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: - Russia invaded Chechnya - not a lie. - Russia grants authority that is used (legitimately or not) to torture people - not a lie. - A quote you claim was wrongly attributed to Putin - didn't happen (where did I say that?)
I explained why each is a lie, but one last time:
1. Russia couldn't invade Chechnya as Chechnya was part of Russia 2. People granted authority don't automatically have authority to torture 3. The article made the claim that Putin said to beat the holy fuck out of someone, even if you didn't.
It's VERY easy for anyone who's not an anarchist to see the lies.
Even the picture in the article turns out to be performance art. I'll admit this is not a lie, but an intentional deception.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: This all comes back to me giving the site as an example of state censorship in Russia. "The Avtonom site is loaded with fake news. I was blown away by the ridiculousness of some of the articles. You probably know that already, but that's no longer allowed." If you don't believe anything you've provided justifies that censorship, than how can you be so comfortable saying that Russia is not abusing its censorship laws to stifle free expression that opposes Russian military action?
I thought you were asking if the article was justification for state censorship, meaning justification to pass a state censorship law. I think you meant if the article should be censored based on whether it meets the new censorship law. Again, we don't know why Avtonom got censored, but yes, I'd say this qualifies as intentionally fake news. If you're in denial about it being fake based on the explanations above, we'll have to agree to disagree.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27739489 - 04/17/22 10:32 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: Good question.
Is there a reasonable explanation why the numbers you are quoting also vary by 2 x ?
After all we want to take care not to misrepresent the conflict, that'd be one sided.
And hey! you're lucky it's me asking, koods would be asking why yours vary by the most.
Yes, there is.
The higher figure includes UAF deaths + civilian deaths in UAF-held areas. This figure relies on reports from the UN + Ukrainian state, which chopstick has firmly stated they do not consider legitimate, so I didn't include them in the latter figure.
The lower figure is exclusively the deaths (both civilian + military) from areas held by the DPR + LPR, exclusively using casualty reports provided by the DPR + LPR, and doesn't include deaths of the UAF.
Now will anyone provide an equivalent source for the claim that "up to 14,000 civilians in the Donetsk and Lugansk republics have been killed since 2014"? Because otherwise, Putin is gonna have to censor himself for fake news.
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Edited by shivas.wisdom (04/17/22 11:04 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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I think the total death count from the war before the current conflict is somewhere around ~14,000. There seems to be some debate about who counts as a civilian given much of the conflict has been fought by volunteers rather than paid military forces.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom
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The only sourced death toll that I've seen for 14,000 deaths includes the deaths of the UAF (4,641), which certainly don't count as civilians killed by the UAF. Stable Genius quoted it, its the first figure.
I'm open to seeing any alternative sources for "up to 14,000 civilians in the Donetsk and Lugansk republics have been killed since 2014" - but I don't think a single unsourced claim from Putin should hold more weight than official reports from both the DPR and LPR.
What sources have you been using?
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ballsalsa
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: 1. Russia couldn't invade Chechnya as Chechnya was part of Russia
Says who? Who decided that Chechnya was part of Russia?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
#27739568 - 04/18/22 12:41 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess failed coups don't count as a legitimate reason to declare autonomy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(November_1994)
Quote:
The November 1994 Battle of Grozny was a covert attempt by Russian Intelligence services to oust the Chechen government of Dzhokhar Dudayev, by seizing the Chechen capital of Grozny. The attack was conducted by armed formations of the opposition Provisional Council, led by Umar Avturkhanov [ru], with a clandestine support of Russian Federation armor and aircraft on 26 November 1994. The fighting subsided after the first 10 hours, with the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria decisively repelling the assault.
The incident led to the large-scale military invasion of the republic that began in December 1994.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: The only sourced death toll that I've seen for 14,000 deaths includes the deaths of the UAF (4,641), which certainly don't count as civilians killed by the UAF. Stable Genius quoted it, its the first figure.
I'm open to seeing any alternative sources for "up to 14,000 civilians in the Donetsk and Lugansk republics have been killed since 2014" - but I don't think a single unsourced claim from Putin should hold more weight than official reports from both the DPR and LPR.
What sources have you been using?
I agree with your numbers. I'm not certain what Stable Genius's argument was; hence, my post to possibly clarify.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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