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Offlinekitten6
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28637083 - 01/27/24 03:46 PM (5 hours, 35 minutes ago)

I think that the actions Wagner is just a product of the developments which led up to this amount of escalation in Ukraine and the purpose of Wagners actions cannot be said for sure as of this moment by third party observers such as us who sit thousands miles away and have no involvement apart from speculation.

I would like to ask as somebody entering into a thread with over a thousand posts what the general consensus is so far on what we think caused the war now i Will give several options and if there is another reason which you would like to add please let us debate over it with a reply.
Who do you think most likely caused this war?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (01/27/24 07:44 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Offlinekitten6
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28637137 - 01/27/24 04:43 PM (4 hours, 38 minutes ago)

propoganda comes from the media narrative which you live under, if putin progoganda was real, and say that i believed in it, then i would be in russia and  under the russian republican media narrative. Actually, I am living in the Eu where the mass media portrays putin as the aggressor of a war under 1000km from Moscow and as a WW2 style fascist autocratic power with imperial intentions for taking over europe.

Just look at what the Guardian, the times, the daily mail, the observer, BBC and ITV and sky have to say about it.

If i am eating somebodies propoganda whos would it be, the western media conglomorate which i cant look in any direction without coming across, or Putins state media which is blocked most hours of the day and inaccessible on western social media platforms.

I don't advocate putin, I don't know about his domestic policy and neither have I lived in Russia where he is in power, but that still doesnt mean I cant be critical of the west for playing a hand in this wars instigation (if you want me to elaborate then please do ask away for any details)


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Offlinekitten6
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28637170 - 01/27/24 05:01 PM (4 hours, 19 minutes ago)

elaborate on why i shouldnt elaborate right now


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28637174 - 01/27/24 05:04 PM (4 hours, 16 minutes ago)

respect


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28637231 - 01/27/24 05:52 PM (3 hours, 28 minutes ago)

Apart from RT and tenor you could cross reference a variety of non-state media sources, unfortunately all those 'non-state' media sources are owned by the same conglomerates who control the majority of Washington lobbyists.

At the same time you can also look at small scale alternative independent media such as the morning star, the lobster, private eye and come to the conclusion that all western media serves the interest of the war campaign in ukraine,

then you could learn that the amount of media conglomerate shares owned by American conglomerates who's shares are owned by American, Israeli and English arms manufacturers, (the same lobbyers in Washington) hold majorities in almost every European outlet.

(arms are still the most profitable commodity known to mankind - what does that say about how the world is run)

and Since when could media be there to serve the private interests of its shareholders?

Your point on the hand played by the west in compelling putin to start an invasion is accurate.

So much so that the US has turned Europe into a buyer of weapons financing a stockpile of weapons with a value of almost one trillion dollars that has been used for incremental war escalations against russia circa feb 2022. (and earlier investments going on long before as conflict in eastern ukraine has been going on for years)

At the same time this 'hand' played by the US started with a 5 billion dollar media campaign which effectively caused the coup de tat 2014 euromaidan revolution in ukraine. the Cato institute describes it as US micro-management of the ukrainian political turbulance which led to the 2014 revolution.

In terms of sovereignty for Ukraine, I think that ukraine has not been able to make a single sovereign decision without a Us backed ukrainian congress as early as the orange revolution.

If you ask me what are my thoughts on the matter I would say, let all your deepest fears on western imperial missions come true for they are.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28637244 - 01/27/24 06:02 PM (3 hours, 18 minutes ago)

ok I admit the cross was misleading its because my contributions to this forum was mostly in the philosophy section in 2019 and i thought this picture was cool even though i have no affiliage to the orthodox church.

even so, i removed this profile picture as i realised even before you posted that it could be misleading posting in a political forum with this profile photo where as it seems most people have a very negative reactionary view against anything from the eastern hemisphere.

also your newsweek post is exactly the corporate owned propoganda that i would warn you against in any case, this is just my advice you dont need to take it as an attack on your awareness of worldwide events.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 2
    #28637275 - 01/27/24 06:27 PM (2 hours, 53 minutes ago)

I totally agree with you that people in Europe have not learnt there lessons from WW2, it is very much observable as somebody who lives in europe that it seems that everybody is indeed making the same mistakes which led up to ww2 with the rise of fascist popularity of far right nationalist self-destructive pro-sanction and pro-war policy making that seems to be taking over throughout europe nowadays. the policy which is backed by the very media campaign i am arguing about in this thread and others.

yet you seem to be trying to make some kind of link with this modern day observation and communism which is really the exact opposite of what i am seeing in the country i am living in as well as france, germany and the eu parliament outcomes coming out of brussels which i see today.

you seem to be the one who is still riding on the mccarthyism and 1950s foreign policy which led to the cold war which we are still living in today and has led to the  millions of unneccessary deaths around the world caused by the US war machine which miraculously saved you from economic pinches for the last half century up until today, which may lead something completely out of the hands of the US unless somebody puts a stop to it with this war in ukraine. (and gaza and yemen)


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28637348 - 01/27/24 07:31 PM (1 hour, 50 minutes ago)

Quote:

I believe state-media will always serve the private interest of their state



nowadays the corporations are bigger and more influential than the state, actually i am criticising state media on the basis that they seem to be unable to oppose corporate interests at all nowadays, if you look at the state of europe today its not just true for the media, but the fate of every infrastructure which is supposed to serve the people is now in the hands of private firms and their shareholders. When we speak about corporate interests which lobbys' narrative do we expect them to uphold with? Those in washington? those who make billions from arms? most likely, because at the moment there is no other lobby capable of making so much money in the west.

Quote:

I think you'd have to specificy what you're referring to when you say, "weapons with a value of almost one trillion dollars that has been used for incremental war escalations against russia circa feb 2022", for me to be able to properly address the comment.




Im referring to the war thats been going on, and its only escalating further and further, do you think that the EU is able to supply all these weapons for free, in fact the demand is still much higher than the actual supply there is as we see the war activity in ukraine fluctuating with the price of ammunition consistently for the past two years.

the trillion is a likely guesstimate i admit to a figure which cannot be verified when you look at the joint investment of all the countries who signed the nato arms contract for ukraine to help supply to differing degrees. (especially considering the awful cost efficiency of US arms manufacturing industry)

Quote:

Now this I think you're going to have to provide citations for, because from 1991 to 2014 there is specific context to the financial aid provided to Ukraine during the time.




The money put into Ukraine from the US were given through NGOs namely the national endowment for democracy NED and USAID which were funding to the three new TV Channels which appeared in late 2013 before Euromaidan and gave millions in grants for those who would serve US foreign policy interests on social media.

Quote:

Do you think Ukraine has a right to their sovereignty?




Of course every country has the right to sovereignty but it seems that there are global super powers out there who would pump millions if not billions into countries in order to steer that sovereignty towards self serving interests (to creating arms sales). Not just for Ukraine, but for maintaining the imperial influence around the world and perpetual proxy wars for the arms lobby.

Quote:

I tend to try to recognise both Western and Eastern centric imperialism without negating the responsibilities of either for their actions.




So in the case of the ukraine war, this is the most compelling and something I still don't understand why nobody else is talking about, Ukraine is less than 1000km from moscow, is not NATO weaponisation and deployment of offensive weapons in Ukraine not a direct existential threat to Russia?

Now does it make sense my stance on this war?


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #28637359 - 01/27/24 07:36 PM (1 hour, 45 minutes ago)

land grab? then why did they not take the opportunity before NATO expansion ?

why did the dissolution of the USSR declare Ukraine as a sovereign state? (they could have kept ukraine you know)

why would they put themselves in this position now? if it were not for outside aggression.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #28637362 - 01/27/24 07:38 PM (1 hour, 42 minutes ago)

trust me europe is a shitshow, there is no democracy left here anymore.

I live in a police state and nobody is talking about it

i regret ever coming here/


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28637369 - 01/27/24 07:45 PM (1 hour, 35 minutes ago)

i think the state of US media is just as bad
https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/15/mehdi-hasans-exit-from-msnbc-is-an-embarrassment-to-us-journalism/

your freedom of speech is free for the corporations only, of course the richest ones.


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