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Invisiblenooneman
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The Official Ukraine War Thread. * 11
    #27671584 - 02/24/22 11:31 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

At the request of Near Dylan. Discuss Argue and propagandize here.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #27697065 - 03/15/22 10:51 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
War IS hell. It's not a video game.

But reality is landing: oh shit, war is real.



Someone once said "in war you will die like a dog for no good reason."

In modern war, you don't even see your attacker or realize what's happening until it's already too late. Most combat happens at such a great distance that the two sides can't see each other. I've seen war videos from afghanistan, and I've never seen one where the two sides were close enough to actually see each other. I recently saw a video where some people were walking down the street when out of nowhere a missile hit right in front of two people. They probably didn't even realize what was going on, and it happened fast, and came out of nowhere.

That's how it is, you get killed out of nowhere, for no good reason, never saw who it was, didn't even see it coming, just all of a sudden dead for no reason.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 3
    #27697173 - 03/16/22 01:53 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

To be honest, I doubt that Russia is intentionally targeting civilians, in the same way that America was not intentionally targeting civilians in viet nam.

Civilians get caught up in war, any war, regardless. That's one of the reasons why war is so horrific and terrible. Innocent people get killed all the time, even with the best of intentions and training, mistakes happen all the time. War is messy and bloody and civilians, in all wars, pay the price of that. That doesn't excuse it, but I think the argument that Russia is not specifically targeting civilians is a valid argument.

In the same vein, fratricide is something that no side intentionally does, but it happens all the same.

Think about all the civilians the US kills in the middle east by accident, and we have the best most sophisticated military and most precise military technology in the world, and we still end up killing civilians. In addition, it's very hard to control a battlefield, and mistakes happen all the time with lethal results, even with a military like ours. A lot of soldiers on the ground (even within our own military) are between 18-21, they get spooked and do something they shouldn't, and the results are lethal.

Archimedes was one of the greatest minds of ancient greece, and everyone knew it. He was a genius with inventions thousands of years ahead of their time. When the city he lived in was invaded by roman soldiers, they were all given explicit orders to keep Archimedes alive. Archimedes was totally priceless. When a roman soldier found him, the very first thing the soldier did was to put a sword through his chest.

War is a waste, an enormous waste. There are no winners, only losers. Everyone loses. Even future generations lose. Every single life is wasted, for nothing. Lives that could have gone on to do amazing things are ended for no reason. People that would have had children, whose children would have gone on to do great things, are dead at 18, or 16, or 21. Are their lives really worth less than whatever we're fighting over? No matter how important it is, is it really more important than all of the lives lost, put together? No matter who "wins", the quicker this war is over the better, and for fuck sake hopefully it'll be the last war like this that anyone ever fights. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: wolf8312]
    #27698835 - 03/17/22 12:33 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
They will definitely suffer in the short term, but allied with China, India and other emerging superpowers -who also know and have seen first hand they cannot trust the US/western banking/financial system- they will probably be better off in the long term with massive gold reserves and a gold/RMB backed rouble.

I think you are also forgetting the number of natural resources the Russians have, the increasing self-sufficiency of their manufacturing, and the markets/trade they will have access to in Asia and especially China. This is not an economy based on zeros and ones but is backed by actual/tradeable assets, and markets that the globalists themselves want access to (as they had, and plundered in the 90s).



That's naïve, Russia will be devastated by these sanctions. These sanctions are for real, like the kind used against Cuba and North Korea. They are no joke. North Korea likes to talk about how independent and self sufficient they are too, and look what they're like. In a year Russia is going to look a lot like North Korea.

That's why I'm honestly not too concerned about pushing for more, or doing other things. We don't even need to do anything at this point. We can just kick back and do nothing and the entire country will be plunged into destitute poverty, and won't pose anyone any threat anymore. Their online propaganda machine will be destroyed, they won't have the money to pay anyone's salaries (a word to the wise: if I were someone involved in that, I'd start looking for another job now...). The game is already over, and they don't even realize it yet. The best situation to be in is where you do nothing and the other side loses, and that's exactly where we are right now.

Also I take back what I said earlier, it looks like Russia is targeting civilians after all. Immediately after I said it, they made me look like a total fool for saying it, bombing a shelter full of children that had been clearly marked, so I guess that's what I get for thinking they have a shred of moral integrity.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27699019 - 03/17/22 03:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Here are some pictures of the women and children Russia recently shelled:









What a great danger those pregnant women must have posed Russia.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27701740 - 03/19/22 07:09 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Here's a picture of a mother whose home was shelled in the middle of the night. She saved her baby by shielding her with her own body, resulting in the injuries seen here. Their home, along with a kindergarten next door, was destroyed:


Here's a picture of a neonatal care hospital that was shelled. The destroyed equipment you see here are incubators for premature babies, they keep premature babies alive. A woman and her child were killed when it was shelled:


What a great danger all these premature babies, women, and children must pose to Russia.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27707937 - 03/25/22 09:59 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Australia has deep historical and cultural ties to the US. There's something of a shared history there. Trying to drive a wedge between that is a doomed effort, there's a reason they're a member of five eyes. Look at who the five eyes are, what do these all have in common?

Not to mention that Australia shares many of the same political interests and concerns as the US, even at a low level.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #27707955 - 03/25/22 10:27 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

In some more positive news, it seems that Marina Ovsyannikova (who famously made a protest against the war on Russian TV) will only receive a fine rather than criminal charges. I know it would be better if she wasn't being punished at all, but it's still nice to see some basic civility like that. Makes me oddly optimistic.

On another positive front, Russia has been signaling that they seem willing to live with the sanctions and aren't phased by them. This is positive because it means they're not looking to go to war over them, which is nice. I'd prefer not to get into a nuclear war.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman]
    #27712823 - 03/29/22 12:11 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Looks like the war might be starting to wind down, thank god.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #27713579 - 03/29/22 11:55 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Biden is incompetent. The level of his incompetence and stupidity never ceases to amaze me. It's just one unforced error after another with him. The only president in 3 past presidencies who was so incompetent that he lost the war in Afghanistan within a year of taking the presidency, despite it being all but won. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Every day I am shocked that this is supposedly the best we have to offer.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 4
    #28125156 - 01/04/23 11:12 PM (1 year, 22 days ago)

You know, I love democracy, and fuck putin and fuck russia, but I often think about how many lives could have been saved if Ukraine had just rolled over and given up in the first day of the war.

How many human lives is democracy and freedom worth? How many lost children? Let's say you round up a bunch of parents who lost kids, and you asked them if they would rather have freedom and democracy, or their dead child back, how many of them do you think are going to choose democracy and freedom over their dead kid?

And hey, you know what, if my country was invaded, I'd be fighting tooth and nail too, so I can't even advocate this as a position or anything. It's just this weird fucked up thought.

Every child lost is not only that person gone, but also all the children they would have had, and the children that their children would have had. When you think about the entire family lines being annihilated, it's probably already millions of innocent people who won't even exist now. Like, technically, on paper, you could have saved millions of lives by rolling over on the first day of the war. But you can't, right, because of what that would do to future generations, and because of what it would do the world. I guess anyway? I mean, is it really worth it? Really? I dunno anymore, man. Human life has value too, what's the value of human life vs. the value of freedom and democracy? At what point can human life outweigh the value of democracy and freedom? Or does it never outweigh it, and how fucked up would that be?

Fuck Russia, fuck Putin for starting this shit and getting all these kids killed, and fuck everyone who went along with it and supported it. You all should be ashamed, it's amazing you can look in the mirror and still respect yourself when you have no dignity and no morality and no courage and no strength and no respect, and your hands are covered in the blood of murdered mothers and children.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #28208931 - 03/01/23 12:35 AM (10 months, 22 days ago)

One interesting thing about all the neo-nazi claims Russia likes to throw around is the fact that Russia is home to more neo-nazi groups, neo-nazi members, and neo-nazi leaders than any other country on earth. In fact, the leaders of a lot of American neo-nazi groups are in Russia because they know the Russians won't touch them.

So you have Russia, the neo-nazi capital of the world, calling other people neo-nazis. Which is standard Russian propaganda tactics, and apparently it works great, people fall for it left and right not even realizing that Russia has more neo-nazis than anywhere else on earth. The Russian government even lends them some support.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28276367 - 04/13/23 06:59 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Yeah, laugh all you want now, but the reality is that both sides have fought to a standstill and even the leaked projections show nothing is likely to change for years, which means years of throwing young Russian kids into a meat grinder all in the name of grabbing some ruined land no one in Russia even gives a fuck about.

But by all means, continue to laugh while tens of thousands of Russian kids are thrown into a woodchipper for years if that's what you want.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: twighead]
    #28305509 - 05/03/23 07:47 PM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Historically, events like that tend to change culture more so than they change politics, but the impact on culture can be dramatic. The vets who fought in WW1 caused absolutely massive cultural change when they went home, same with WW2. It'll be interesting to see what Russia looks like culturally in 10 years. Sadly Ukraine will still be rebuilding in 10 years, no matter which way the war goes.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #28307025 - 05/04/23 09:38 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Eh, that's mostly because of the highly effective propaganda of our rivals more than anything.

American propaganda really isn't very good in comparison to be honest. You look at what Russia is doing in other country right now, today, and damn and it makes US adventurism look like a picnic. The US at least tries to follow some rules of morality and decency (tries, but often fails), but Russia, they actively try to fuck shit up and kill people. It's like the polar opposite, they actively try to murder and rape, but their propaganda is so good that most people have heard more about the US in other countries than the places the Wagner group and others went around murdering and raping their way through. You know how many countries they have soldiers killing people in right now? It's a lot, but again their propaganda is spectacular so people are more familiar with the US, probably left over from the soviet era. They always had the best propaganda.

In terms of every continent having animosity, that's overstating things a little. Japan, Australia, New Zealand, they like us. Canada likes us. Even in South America, they talk a big game, but at the end of the day when push comes to shove most of them still look to the US. Of course there is some animosity, but not as much as you might think. Hell you know, even Vietnam is looking to us these days. Vietnam! Think about that.

The reason China has had such success in other countries is not because people like them or hate us. It's because China paid those governments an absolute fuckton of money. Often the governments were corrupt dictatorships to begin with, so that money went straight to the pockets of the people in charge. So naturally they let China open up some ports. Hard to turn down a few trillion dollars, even if it makes your entire country a slave of China and de facto chinese property. Once the chinese are there, they're not leaving, ever, and good luck pushing them out. That's game over for your country in the long run.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #28309773 - 05/07/23 12:12 AM (8 months, 17 days ago)

It's strategically unimportant regardless. The reason they're fighting over it is because the war is now at a total standstill. This is what it's going to look like from now on. The Russians have mined the shit out of border between the two sides. You don't mine the place you're about to walk, which shows that they don't have any intention of moving forward, and likewise although the Ukrainians would like to, they're at a standstill as well.

This is what happens with wars a lot of the time, they're fought to a standstill, and after a long enough period of time, the division between the two sides becomes the new de facto border, and then finally the real border.

Even the leaked US intel said it's unlikely that anything will change for either side for years. This is just what it's going to look like from here on out. Get used to these borders because this is the new border between Russian and Ukraine. If it wasn't, Russia wouldn't have mined the shit out of it. Again, you don't mine the path in front of your army.

It's likely all the weapons and other stuff for the new Ukraine "offensive" are instead being used to dig in and defend the new borders.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #28373476 - 06/24/23 10:34 PM (6 months, 30 days ago)

He admitted two things: the war has been a disaster for Russia, and it was started by Russia for no good reason.

These are indeed things we've all known since the beginning, but it's nice to finally hear someone admitting it.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods] * 4
    #28429100 - 08/10/23 08:55 PM (5 months, 15 days ago)

Personally, I don't support Ukrainian attacks inside Russia. It hardens Russia's resolve, accomplishes nothing militarily or politically, makes negotiation more difficult, and it's playing with fire.


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