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OfflineDendrocopos
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I'm a teapot


Registered: 11/02/21
Posts: 511
Loc: Chained in RR's cellar
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27719054 - 04/03/22 07:37 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
I have a PTSD diagnosis and have no issue  with accessing psilocybin/psilocin.

Those of us who benefit from these substances are aware of their efficacy, we don't require permission nor studies to affirm their usage. Psychedelic fungi are following the same path to administrative bureaucracy that cannabis has.

We don't require surveys and studies to determine whether or not people experience the sky as blue and whether that blueness affects mental health in a postive way. Sky blue need not be approved for our consumption, we need not hand over our rights to sky blue to be measured into discrete doses to be prescribed to those individuals with sufficient access to healthcare. We don't need permission.

That's the issue that I have with these endeavors. Their presuppositional axioms are irrevocably flawed. They pick our pockets to sell us our own watch.




I don't have PTSD but I have all sorts of mental troubles and one of the reasons I'd like to see studies and full legalisation is being able to sit down with a mental health professional in a professional looking building so i can trip. I can no longer trip alone after experiencing a full blown delirium and almost accidentally killing myself. My stoner friend who volunteered to trip sit me doesn't count : laugh:.


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OfflineDEZn00ts
The Wizard of The Midwest
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Registered: 01/17/13
Posts: 389
Loc: Anus, Cantaffordit
Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Dendrocopos]
    #27726566 - 04/09/22 12:32 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I'm pretty positive shrooms started the onset of my PTSD. That's why I don't do them I guess lol.


--------------------


"it's genetic. Asians are better at math if born in America or Asia. Black people run faster born in Africa or America. White people are still more racist no matter where they were born either. it's genetic." -bodhisatta


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Offlinenickchinn
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Registered: 05/15/21
Posts: 21
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: ResearchLady]
    #27735567 - 04/15/22 08:19 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

microdosing has been studied in depression and PTSD with promising results!


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InvisibleModularMind
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Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 7,902
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: DEZn00ts]
    #27737882 - 04/16/22 09:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DEZn00ts said:
I'm pretty positive shrooms started the onset of my PTSD. That's why I don't do them I guess lol.




But not the source of the trauma itself, correct?
It would have likely manifested itself, in some way, at some point regardless.
They aren’t sedatives.


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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
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Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27742986 - 04/20/22 12:26 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Are you saying the people who are conducting this survey are the people trying to commercialize p-assisted therapy? I feel that you may be overgeneralizing the roles independent researchers have in the commercialization of psychedelics.

As someone who researches psychedelics for therapeutic purposes in University, I can personally attest to the fact that a predominantly commercialized psychedelic therapy model is the last thing I want. I have been very vocal about this fact (the post in my bio "why the psychedelic movement kind of sucks" discusses this point).

Likewise, OP doesn't appear to have any conflicts of interest that I'm aware of and the nature of their study doesn't imply anything about commercialization. I don't see how the survey is related to money as you imply asides from them offering $100 to a lucky participant :shrug:

Research that documents the benefits of MDMA for people with PTSD isn't individually bound to commercialization, medicalization, or legalization for that matter.


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (04/20/22 12:44 AM)


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Posts: 785
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Dendrocopos]
    #27742997 - 04/20/22 12:41 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dendrocopos said:
I don't have PTSD but I have all sorts of mental troubles and one of the reasons I'd like to see studies and full legalisation is being able to sit down with a mental health professional in a professional looking building so i can trip. I can no longer trip alone after experiencing a full blown delirium and almost accidentally killing myself. My stoner friend who volunteered to trip sit me doesn't count : laugh:.



As a researcher doing similar research as OP, my goal is to not only do research that leads to safe access to this type of service, but also to provide it for as minimal cost as possible to reduce barriers to access.

I also support co-occurring legalization & medicalization. Unfortunately medicalization demands a price, and if it were up to me this price would be as low as possible. Some corporadelic organizations are taking advantage of this, but I believe most researchers truly intend to make p-assisted therapy as low-barrier/low-cost as possible.

The pros of offering p-assisted therapy in a controlled medical setting (e.g., safety/comfort, benefit maximization, high interest in these services, etc.) are too high to not consider offering medical/therapeutic services. Meanwhile, the barriers to accessing medical services mixed with the rationale behind legalization (e.g., cognitive liberty, respecting Indigenous, spiritual, and recreational uses, etc.) means it would be preposterous to not legalize psychedelics simultaneously.


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (04/20/22 12:47 AM)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27743269 - 04/20/22 08:25 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

All I'm saying is that maybe we don't need verification, maybe we don't need permission. If you're the sort of individual that requires confirmation from a board of trustees, a body of supporting literature, and permission from the great benefactor then this is great news.

Maria Sabina didn't seem to mind and neither do I.

Just simplicity. I'm sure ther are those reading my comments that are just mortified, and how could I, etc.

No professionals, no doctors office, no pens, pads, etc. People are beside themselves with the justification of their own behavior or what they put in their body.


Hamilton articulates this postion quite succinctly at 3:39 and onwards:



Responding for clarity, I don't care either way honestly. You can turn anything into very serious, stern business. I very much enjoy Hamilton' analogy to music.



Edited by Stipe-n Cap (04/20/22 09:47 AM)


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Posts: 785
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27743881 - 04/20/22 03:55 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I wholeheartedly agree. I just don't see how researchers/surveys like this one are to blame & still feel you haven't answered this question directly...

Perhaps you're trying to ask whether working within the system or outside of it is a better resistance strategy? In which case my perspective is "why not both?". Ultimately the current system demands justification, but to the point of the question above: we don't really know whether or not researchers support the call to needlessly justify psychedelic medicine. Again, I certainly don't. But as with any social movement in the past, this justification has been necessitated not because researchers are objectively complicit, but because they can work within & outside this system. I think the idea that they can't is a false dichotomy, and I believe Hamilton speaks to this fact.

I think Hamilton is a great example of the point I'm making: Hamilton has done more than his fair share of researching psychedelics to "prove" their therapeutic efficacy & the cost-effectiveness of producing them in a lab. Yet, he also argues for cognitive liberty, illustrating how advocating for cognitive liberty is not inconsistent with researching psychedelics. I agree with Hamilton, but I'm sure he must be cognizant of the many ways he still finds himself justifying psychedelic legalization.

Regardless of whether or not we "should have to" the point is that we do have to. I think what Hamilton is saying is not that we should stop justifying psychedelics in the face of a dominant culture that demands we do so, but that we must remain vigilant to not get lost in this culture during our mission; we can't lose sight of cognitive liberty while justifying psychedelics to people who are unreasonably skeptical. The core virtue is still the same: cognitive liberty.

Hamilton also recently signed a contract with COMPASS pathways who are basically the leading organization of the psychedelic capitalism, profiteering, and predatory marketing practices you mentioned prior. Along with Joe Rogan, both are very involved in making big bucks off of mainstreaming psychedelic medicine.

It seems a bit contradictory to me that you are criticizing some random researcher who probably makes pennies conducting their survey, while citing Hamilton Morris on an episode of Joe Rogan. I appreciate Hamilton's perspective, but in the context of this conversation I think these are some things worth considering.

As a final point, there is also still a lot we don't know about psychedelic medicine and answering these questions can inform how we address both cognitive liberty and regulated use. We know they are beneficial for PTSD, but in what contexts? How does the novelty vs. familiarity with music lead to greater benefits? How can we communicate harm reduction information for unregulated use? What else needs to be considered for harm reduction? What sort of physical contact, if any, creates a more comfortable & beneficial experience & how can we encourage best-practices regarding touch in unregulated contexts? This last one is especially crucial for people with PTSD rooted in sexual trauma. I don't think the underground research has answered this question, and honestly I don't think it will due to limitations within underground research. Research is still vital to harm reduction in this sense. Just as we can get lost in justifying psychedelics' benefits, we can also get lost in arguments about cognitive liberty that may reproduce the problem of sexual abuse towards people with PTSD who take psychedelics with a guide, trip sitter, therapist, whatever. I don't see how cognitive liberty can address these issues without the availability of regulated use & a system of accountability. This circles back to justifying psychedelic efficacy & thus regulation to the dominant culture though.

Justifying psychedelics unfortunately is paramount for ensuring safety & cognitive liberty in both regulated & unregulated contexts. People deserve the freedom to choose to use any drug on their own, or have access to a certified therapist who won't sexually assault them in an already vulnerable state of consciousness.

Anywho, just food for thought. I appreciate the great points & conversation :super:


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (04/20/22 04:30 PM)


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OfflineNZ.huntress
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Registered: 07/03/21
Posts: 102
Loc: Wellington NZ Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27747503 - 04/22/22 11:32 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Is this open to USA only?


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OfflineGreenFeather
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Registered: 05/01/22
Posts: 1
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: NZ.huntress]
    #27758569 - 05/01/22 10:07 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

As of May 1st 2022 the study's questionnaire is inactive.
I wanted to post a recent revelation regarding micro-dosing and dental caries\cavities.
Micro-dosing is such and effective painkiller that it numbs cavity pain! I may lose a tooth because I've never gone for regular checkups and didn't start once I started micro-dosing. It was a referred tooth pain that I went to see about and the xrays showed a big cavity! It got drilled out and filled in but may be too late. 3 weeks post it began to ache in the even time; on the 2nd or 3rd day I awoke with pain but that pain dissipated after my micro-dose! Etiology discerned and shared.
Another thread to weave into the complexity of modern life.


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Offlineadavid02
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: GreenFeather]
    #27766076 - 05/06/22 02:19 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I think it's worth taking the survey


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Offlinecapthatass
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Registered: 02/05/22
Posts: 15
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: ResearchLady]
    #27769175 - 05/08/22 09:33 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I'm a veteran with what's now called "PTSD." I didn't get it from enduring COVID or any other perceived slight; I got it from watching a fellow soldier die in my arms. So...

While I didn't complete my graduate studies in Biology... if you'd like to hear about my ANECDOTAL experiences... well, send me a private message. Be forewarned that I'm quite cautious, distrustful (life, yo), and guarded. If you'd like something approximating "data points..." meh, reach out.

I'm on the cusp of harvesting my first "flush." It's my sincere hope that the PubMed papers I've read (suggesting an outcome that meets my desires) "bear fruit."

Doestojevsky had a good bit about shrooms in the Brothers K. I'm hoping for... well, relief. Time will tell.


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OfflineBlueAndOrange
Psychedelic success story…
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: capthatass]
    #27769197 - 05/08/22 10:01 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

capthatass said:
I'm a veteran with what's now called "PTSD." I didn't get it from enduring COVID or any other perceived slight; I got it from watching a fellow soldier die in my arms. So...

While I didn't complete my graduate studies in Biology... if you'd like to hear about my ANECDOTAL experiences... well, send me a private message. Be forewarned that I'm quite cautious, distrustful (life, yo), and guarded. If you'd like something approximating "data points..." meh, reach out.

I'm on the cusp of harvesting my first "flush." It's my sincere hope that the PubMed papers I've read (suggesting an outcome that meets my desires) "bear fruit."

Doestojevsky had a good bit about shrooms in the Brothers K. I'm hoping for... well, relief. Time will tell.




I’m not going to pretend what I’ve gone through compares to ptsd from combat, but I had severe medical trauma induced PTSD. Doing EMDR and somatic experiencing work helped. Mushrooms did more in 2 trips than 7 years of therapy. I’m new to this too. I started in December. I hope you find the relief that I am finding.

It’s not a magic pill. It doesn’t cure you over night, the trips are not fun and can bring you great emeotional discomfort. Just remember to lean into the discomfort and be sure your set and setting are really optimal.

My experience is both therapy and psychedelics are both tools for peeling the layers of the metaphorical onion. Therapy is peeling one layer at a time slowly and steadily, but if you have a lot of layers, it could be a long time spent peeling. EMDR peels the onion faster, and with more permanent results. Mushrooms are like taking a meat cleaver to the onion.

Good luck!


Edited by BlueAndOrange (05/08/22 10:05 PM)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: BlueAndOrange]
    #27769630 - 05/09/22 10:23 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Don't forget that mushrooms are not only not a new thing, but not always super positive; psychedelic means mind manifesting....some things are best left unmanifest, so those of us with combat realated stress injuries should proceed with caution.

Mushrooms don't always produce "good vibes", just ask the Azteks.



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OfflineBlueAndOrange
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27769644 - 05/09/22 10:34 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I’m not giving medical advice, but I’ve had some darkness in my limited experience, and it was not an easy ride, but I was lighter for going through it. For something as severe as combat PTSD, having a sympathetic and knowledgeable therapist who can help integrate the experiences with the mushrooms would probably be a wise choice.


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Offlinecapthatass
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: BlueAndOrange]
    #27770743 - 05/10/22 06:51 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Thanks to you and the other/previous poster for your replies. If there's one thing we're "meant" (in the British sense) to learn... it's that YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).

I will never disparage therapy. It fills a need. IMHO, it fills the void left by secularism (I'm a non-theist) and the breakdown of the nuclear family (meh, it was probably a scam/sham anyway). There is great value in talking. There's TREMENDOUS value in explaining you "circumstance" or "story" to a stranger -- whether present (e.g., a therapist) or imagined (e.g., via writing/"journaling").

I have no answers. I encourage people (myself included) to... "be receptive." Hippies annoy the ever-lovin' heck out of me. Caveat declared... there is great value in writing an in introspection. Personally, I suspect/hope that the heinous traumas I've endured (the military was minor in comparison to my younger years)... are best left in the past. I'm fully "intellectual" and "sensitive..." and simultaneously... skeptical of the need to dissect everything. So...

I believe that my AUD (alcohol disuse disorder -- self-diagnosed... by the slimest of margins) is neurochemical in basis. It's my vainglorious hope that #shroomLife will be a pathway out of this. FWIW, I "micro" dosed 1g, yesterday. There was little "micro" about the experience. Today... I find my "need" diminished. Time will tell.

In the idiotic hope for anonymity... I'm willing to share my adventure. Again, time will tell. I have an inherent distrust of the medical industry. I remember the chair of the Biology department opining, "In the 1950s, we did the inconceivable - we defeated Polio... and then 2/3 of the industry shutdown. We will never find a cure for cancer -- not until something more profitable comes along." Indeed. And that's how I feel about Multiple Sclerosis (symptoms abate during pregnancy, for example -- can't patent that, however) and the unfinished work of two-time Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling. In similar fashion... I suspect that mushrooms are a Schedule I drug... because, well, we have a capitalist, for-profit medical industry. #tinfoilHats

Again, it's my hope... that there's a pre-frontal cortex "reset" to be had with psylocibin.


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OfflineBlueAndOrange
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Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: capthatass]
    #27770883 - 05/10/22 08:39 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I agree that dissecting past traumas is not the most efficient path forward, but look into EMDR and somatic experiencing. It blows out the cobwebs without talking about shit ad nauseum. If you find a therapist versed in both they work together beautifully. Integrating psilocybin on top of them is even more powerful.

I’m very lucky. I live where entheogenic plants are decriminalized. I have a therapist who can’t use them with me, but is knowledgeable and supports my use, and is helpful in integrating my use in our work.

I feel like this is more powerful than just the mushrooms alone. At least for me.

1g is not a microdose in my book. That’s a small microdose. I’ve never taken more than 1.5, though my next trip planned is 3.5g.

I’d love to hear of your progress.


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Offlinecapthatass
Panzo

Registered: 02/05/22
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Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: BlueAndOrange]
    #27771598 - 05/10/22 05:55 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I know exceptionally little about EMDR. I just did a web search... and I see that it's recommended by the VA. Meh, perhaps I'll look into that. Thank you for your suggestion. Sincerely.


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Posts: 785
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: capthatass]
    #27771791 - 05/10/22 07:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

capthatass said:
I will never disparage therapy. It fills a need. IMHO, it fills the void left by secularism (I'm a non-theist) and the breakdown of the nuclear family



Did secularism and the breakdown of the nuclear family really leave a void, or did they just make the preexisting void more visible?

Religion and proponents of the nuclear family (e.g., the bourgeois-operated state) were highly coercive over individual agency through the exercise and production of normativity. Thus, I would argue that deviant family models and deviant theological orientations were simply not discussed, historically recorded as prevalent, or given attention to (as this is the effect of normativity). The harms of the nuclear family and dogmatic religions that have been formally recorded today almost certainly took place back then as well, but voicing these concerns were met with not only normative influence but also harsh corporeal punishments via laws.

So although it may appear that a void was left, I would argue that secularism and the breakdown of the nuclear family actually reduced this void specifically by making these issues visible. Of course it is this very precise visibility that may have made the appearance of a "void" as the visibility may be conflated with the genesis of these issues (the "void").

Anyways sorry if this is off topic. I love sociology :awesomenod:


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (05/10/22 07:58 PM)


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Offlinecapthatass
Panzo

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Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Psychedelic treatment for PTSD - Research Project [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27772737 - 05/11/22 02:27 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Hey, I get a boner for heady conversation (pun unintentional). I was using language fairly loosely -- without concern for nuance or semantics. So... I very much enjoyed that reply. However, my meaning was much less "thoughtful." I simply meant to say that the "rosy historical view" that I'm supposed to accept is one in which there was more "community."

Recognizing that I could be quite wrong... I have this idea that people had stronger social networks in times past. Within your community, you probably had a someone that you "trusted" enough to be vulnerable and talk about personal issues. For some, that was a religious figure (e.g., Catholic confessional). For others, that might have been a member of their extended family. I frankly don't know any adults (friends) that believe in any religion... and very few that maintain contact with family members.

So... I suspect that a therapist is someone you can trust to be confidential and that has your best interests in-mind. It's a theory. Otherwise... there's a void. I certainly wouldn't burden my GF with my military baggage. So... this is what I was trying to say.

While I don't disdain therapy... I can't say the same thing about religion. Meh.


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