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AnattaAtman
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U. G. Krishnamurti
#27659830 - 02/15/22 11:39 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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The essential U. G. Krishnamurti
This guy rocks. He is a Pratyekabuddhá, a Buddha who does not teach. At least he claims to not be a teacher. In my opinion, he has a very neat way of explaining the problem with the ego.
Whatever you do, any spiritual practice - be it prayer, meditation, yoga, martial arts, you name it - cannot lessen the grip of the ego. The ego just plays a trick on you, and now defines as someone meditating. Whatever comes from the ego feeds back into the ego, actually strengthening it.
"My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody."
Edited by AnattaAtman (02/15/22 11:48 AM)
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AnattaAtman
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Just wondering, does anybody get the videos to work? I tried a couple programs, but nothing seems to help.
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syncro
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That guy gets my goat, so he's successful I guess.
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Kickle
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The video files link to a website that doesn't appear to be in operation. AKA dead links.
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syncro
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I found today that I can learn more by reading about him, not listening to him where I dismiss him. But I got perspective reading at least the wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._G._Krishnamurti
"My aim is not some comfy dialectical thesis but the total negation of everything that can be expressed."
He had his unique rough time of it as we all do. It doesn't mean, to me, he can be so imposing. I have better respect though.
"As men approach me, so I receive them." Krishna
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Kickle
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro] 1
#27660279 - 02/15/22 05:37 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah. I think much more fondly of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi

Just looking at his eyes in that photo does give my heart a warmth. But I have history with it. Still, not much does that to me.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Kickle]
#27660289 - 02/15/22 05:42 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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I was interested to read he did spend time with Ramana. 'In 1939, at age 21, U.G. met with renowned spiritual teacher Ramana Maharshi. U.G. related that he asked Ramana, "This thing called moksha, can you give it to me?" – to which Ramana Maharshi purportedly replied, "I can give it, but can you take it?". This answer completely altered U.G.'s perceptions of the "spiritual path" and its practitioners. Later, U.G. would say that Maharshi's answer – which he perceived as "arrogant" – put him "back on track".'
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AnattaAtman
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Kickle]
#27660856 - 02/16/22 04:32 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: The video files link to a website that doesn't appear to be in operation. AKA dead links.
Thanks.
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BrendanFlock
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It seemed he embodied the idea of nothing..
Because nothing is what it is..
It does not exist..
But we think about it abstractly.
What are the things and places we call nothing?
Zero valid, well Hell yeah..
Angeline.
And Adam as the Devil!
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Buster_Brown
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syncro
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27662282 - 02/17/22 08:21 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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His views go well with a lot said in the Ego Wins thread. No matter how seemingly enlightened an experience, it is still "I". In the blissful states, and those where self seems to disappear, there is the larger ground of self, I, knowing it. Even Nirvana is not nihilistic. So what is there? Arguably, ego. ?
I think though, he was confusing things, perhaps to a very effective purpose. He dismissed teachings, words, I gather, in repulsion of the "I", and rightly so, as illusion hinges on it, but, arguably, the "I" is the baby in the bath water not needing to be tossed, but cleaned.
from Yogananda's poem, Samadhi
Vanished the veils of light and shade, Lifted every vapor of sorrow, Sailed away all dawns of fleeting joy, Gone the dim sensory mirage. Love, hate, health, disease, life, death: Perished these false shadows on the screen of duality. The storm of maya stilled By magic wand of intuition deep. But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
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Forrester
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Kickle]
#27664300 - 02/18/22 06:04 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Yeah. I think much more fondly of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi

Just looking at his eyes in that photo does give my heart a warmth. But I have history with it. Still, not much does that to me.
Read "Happiness and the art of being" if you come across a copy. It's insanely repetitive, but needfully so, the teaching is simple, but for the mind to understand it with the ego involved is difficult. Anyway what he teaches, at the core, is the same, true non-duality of existence at the core of Buddhism and the Course in miracles, christian mysticism, really most religions if you strip away the crap and get to the mysticism at the core. Good stuff
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Fleabag Friend
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Forrester]
#27664635 - 02/19/22 01:01 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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I've listened to a lot of UG.
I had a lot of fun back in the day smoking cannabis and listening to the likes of Alan Watts and Jiddu Krishnamurti. Then I stumbled upon UG, like a shattering blow. The fact that it made me so uncomfortable at first just made it that much more interesting to me, what he was saying.
UG would slap you in the mouth for calling him a pratyekabuddha. All this thread is utter bullshit, the very attempt to bring words to any of this is just nonsense.
-------------------- "Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer 𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.
     𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮
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Buster_Brown
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FleabagFriend and Krishnamurti bashing the hippies again.
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syncro
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I looked up pratyekabuddha; on the wiki p it says, "The pratyekabuddha is an individual who independently achieves liberation without the aid of teachers or guides and without teaching others to do the same."
UG doesn't seem like that. He had many teachers and practices earlier.
From the above definition though, Ramana Maharshi seems a legit pratyekabuddha. He sought from early on just the internal essence and did not waiver. However, others have said it can't be done without some kind of teacher. I think it was implied that Shiva, internally, guided Ramana.
Edited by syncro (02/19/22 04:22 AM)
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AnattaAtman
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27664744 - 02/19/22 05:26 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: I looked up pratyekabuddha; on the wiki p it says, "The pratyekabuddha is an individual who independently achieves liberation without the aid of teachers or guides and without teaching others to do the same."
UG doesn't seem like that. He had many teachers and practices earlier.
But he claims that all the teachers and practices didn't help him to achieve enlightenment. According to him, enlightenment is acausal, meaning there was no reason it happened to him. All those practices ultimately just strengthen the ego.
Also, he claims he has no teaching to give. All the people following him seem to harass him.
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syncro
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Forrester]
#27664745 - 02/19/22 05:26 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
Kickle said: Yeah. I think much more fondly of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi

Just looking at his eyes in that photo does give my heart a warmth. But I have history with it. Still, not much does that to me.
Read "Happiness and the art of being" if you come across a copy. It's insanely repetitive, but needfully so, the teaching is simple, but for the mind to understand it with the ego involved is difficult. Anyway what he teaches, at the core, is the same, true non-duality of existence at the core of Buddhism and the Course in miracles, christian mysticism, really most religions if you strip away the crap and get to the mysticism at the core. Good stuff
I heard an echo, I think just a random memory, that I should see a doctor.
But among other sources I visited Dr. Ramana in that book, finding "without even the slightest notion of unhappiness."
This aligns with the ego talk, A Course in Miracles, and so on.
from this passage: "...in deep sleep unhappiness is totally absent. When we are asleep, unhappiness does not exist even as a thought, or as something that we fear or desire to avoid. Therefore, since unhappiness cannot exist without a desire for happiness, but happiness can exist without even the slightest notion of unhappiness, unhappiness is entirely relative, whereas happiness may be either relative or absolute."
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syncro
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Quote:
AnattaAtman said:
Quote:
syncro said: I looked up pratyekabuddha; on the wiki p it says, "The pratyekabuddha is an individual who independently achieves liberation without the aid of teachers or guides and without teaching others to do the same."
UG doesn't seem like that. He had many teachers and practices earlier.
But he claims that all the teachers and practices didn't help him to achieve enlightenment. According to him, enlightenment is acausal, meaning there was no reason it happened to him. All those practices ultimately just strengthen the ego.
Also, he claims he has no teaching to give. All the people following him seem to harass him.
As they should harass him. No, I think it entertaining though. Not that he doesn't make some valid points. It is said even among paths of form and practice that we cannot take the final step which is done for us, or happens without our able influence.
But I think it could be a case where he was ripened by all these things but gives no credit to them. It doesn't matter I suppose, as grace needs no credit. But he banged his head against these teachings for all that time, and went as if that didn't work to shake stuff out.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27664894 - 02/19/22 08:59 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: His views go well with a lot said in the Ego Wins thread. No matter how seemingly enlightened an experience, it is still "I". In the blissful states, and those where self seems to disappear, there is the larger ground of self, I, knowing it. Even Nirvana is not nihilistic. So what is there? Arguably, ego. ?
from Yogananda's poem, Samadhi
... But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
Arguably an endeavor to disassociate events from agency.
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Forrester
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27665244 - 02/19/22 02:15 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: It is said even among paths of form and practice that we cannot take the final step which is done for us, or happens without our able influence.
Which other sources say that? Just curious, I'm not familiar with a lot of the details of many of the other paths. Surprised there were others that said that exact thing that it says in the Course.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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syncro
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Forrester]
#27665264 - 02/19/22 02:30 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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I know that yogis maintain it. I'm sure it must be supported in the Gita or other sources. I will see if I can locate.
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syncro
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
syncro said: His views go well with a lot said in the Ego Wins thread. No matter how seemingly enlightened an experience, it is still "I". In the blissful states, and those where self seems to disappear, there is the larger ground of self, I, knowing it. Even Nirvana is not nihilistic. So what is there? Arguably, ego. ?
from Yogananda's poem, Samadhi
... But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
Arguably an endeavor to disassociate events from agency.
Why not? Though it would depend on premise. A core message of the Maharamayana, an advaitic type scripture, for example, is that the world appearance arises with movement of thought, and together they cease.
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Fleabag Friend
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Forrester]
#27665583 - 02/19/22 07:12 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Makes me think of one of the more interesting metaphors that UG spoke about his life. Said something to the effect that everyone is riding a tiger, and that you can't jump off or risk being eaten, but for some reason he had been thrown off through no volition of his own.
-------------------- "Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer 𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.
     𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮
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AnattaAtman
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27666430 - 02/20/22 12:34 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: But I think it could be a case where he was ripened by all these things but gives no credit to them.
I think you are right, he just doesn't give credit to his practices. If enlightenment really were acausal, it would happen to a certain percentage of people, never mind if they practiced or not.
I think it is a little like the Buddha's left side practice, where he hurt himself, actually doing things like not eating for weeks, trying to torture himself into enlightenment. He destroyed his body during that practice, so he couldn't become older than eighty years.
Finally, he decided upon the middle path, which basically means that you live like an ascetic, and have fun doing it. But would the Buddha have become as powerful as he was without his hardcore practice? I don' think so. He just didn't give credit to what he had done.
Well, there probably is a difference between a Buddha's path and a monk's path. For a monk, enlightenment is enough. For a Buddha, there are higher consciousness powers.
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Kickle
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Or they realize that mystical powers don't achieve the goal of liberation.
I had an acquaintance a long time ago who said to me at a time when i was feeling very wizardly: "There is a difference between #1 and #2, even if #2 is very powerful"
I think about that sometimes. Not quite as concretely as he thought about it. I'm fairly certain he was referring to God as #1. But in a universal sense. If a Buddha incarnated and didn't want to, they were at best beholden to a power greater than their own
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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AnattaAtman
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Kickle]
#27666531 - 02/20/22 01:47 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Or they realize that mystical powers don't achieve the goal of liberation.
By "higher consciousness powers", I did not mean mystical powers, but things like love or equanimity - qualities that you do not necessarily get with enlightenment. You have to find a separate way of gaining them.
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Kickle
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maybe
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Fleabag Friend
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Kickle]
#27666578 - 02/20/22 02:30 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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This thread is nothing but the barking of dogs!
-------------------- "Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer 𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.
     𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮
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Kickle
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Yeah! Thanks for joining in
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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syncro
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: Forrester]
#27666980 - 02/20/22 08:02 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
syncro said: It is said even among paths of form and practice that we cannot take the final step which is done for us, or happens without our able influence.
Which other sources say that? Just curious, I'm not familiar with a lot of the details of many of the other paths. Surprised there were others that said that exact thing that it says in the Course.
Well, I'm not having luck. I'm considering the possibility I'm just using the words from ACIM. It may have been sourced in some obscurity and good luck finding something in all the volumes around Hinduism without a lead. But in the search I've found myself wallowing in treasures addressing previous questions like the one we had in the ACIM thread involving the nature of our real creativity, that in the Shiva Sutra.
I have been contemplating the (non)planet Ketu (the southern lunar node.) It is also related to dogs, to placate him being kind especially to stray dogs. Now I'm associating Ketu, UG Krishnamurti, and barking dogs.
Ketu is excellent for liberation, but is considered malefic in that it can take everything else away. It does sound a bit like UG's path.
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Fleabag Friend
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27667009 - 02/20/22 08:27 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer 𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.
     𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮
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Forrester
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27667339 - 02/21/22 03:58 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said:
Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
syncro said: It is said even among paths of form and practice that we cannot take the final step which is done for us, or happens without our able influence.
Which other sources say that? Just curious, I'm not familiar with a lot of the details of many of the other paths. Surprised there were others that said that exact thing that it says in the Course.
Well, I'm not having luck. I'm considering the possibility I'm just using the words from ACIM. It may have been sourced in some obscurity and good luck finding something in all the volumes around Hinduism without a lead. But in the search I've found myself wallowing in treasures addressing previous questions like the one we had in the ACIM thread involving the nature of our real creativity, that in the Shiva Sutra.
Yeah finding it would be quite difficult, but I'm almost sure you were right and I may have heard the idea mentioned somewhere else too. It may have been in the Ramana Maharshi book I'm reading so I may run across it again... There's a LOT of ides in that book that are the same ones in the course worded differently.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

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The video link doesn't seem to work.
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Forrester
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Worked for me. You didn't miss anything.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27667456 - 02/21/22 07:07 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said:
Quote:
Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
syncro said: His views go well with a lot said in the Ego Wins thread. No matter how seemingly enlightened an experience, it is still "I". In the blissful states, and those where self seems to disappear, there is the larger ground of self, I, knowing it. Even Nirvana is not nihilistic. So what is there? Arguably, ego. ?
from Yogananda's poem, Samadhi
... But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
Arguably an endeavor to disassociate events from agency.
Why not? Though it would depend on premise. A core message of the Maharamayana, an advaitic type scripture, for example, is that the world appearance arises with movement of thought, and together they cease.


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syncro
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So, no need to disassociate, you mean? I'm not claiming expertise, but it's an odd subtlety, disassociation from attachment notions to realize union. Attachment is longing for union, but implies separation. The causelessness aspect reminds me of an answer to the question of why material creation, which was no cause. Mind as a crow alights on the branch, and the coconut falls, materiality, but there is no causal relation, the way I interpreted, Vasistha paraphrased.
If we are uniting with creation, then why the endless sky of only I? Because, as it goes, all is the one infinite consciousness, creation a flickering appearance within it.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27667661 - 02/21/22 10:28 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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If we are uniting with creation then why the endless sky of only I - - -
Limited horizons make for more reliable workers.
You could be someone's Jane instead of a fruitfly in a paradigm where women were the grounding force in relationships. - The page of limited horizons makes voluntary movement predictable, simply dangle the shiny "You're helping someone." And you're good to go for the next of your 8,400,000 lives.
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syncro
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Trying to marry me off. I was starting to get uniform consciousness I'll have you know, so I can create my own stuff. Now all this.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27668906 - 02/22/22 09:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Well look what the king of cups brought in with the eight. From your posts I gather that you are in pain and don't see much prospect of a future, which budding psychologists night interpret as an end of life stage. Have you made arrangements for egress, set a date for self-disconnection?
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syncro
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What is the eight after king of cups?
Who is not in pain and pleasure here? How does one exit one thing? There are three waves on the single ocean, all the one, those the states of waking, dreaming, and deep sleep, the ocean being the fourth state, turiya, the ego's sleight of hand making something obvious, hidden. Beginning to see turiya, which I think is obvious, this is freaking fun, I mean a lot.
I've been considering the obviousness of turiya, which is intuitive for anyone who has received simple direction. But of course, it's impossible, too high, too subtle to reach, where actually, and teachers emphasize the simplicity to the would-be blind, as I have been anyway; it is like saying there is no soil to be found on the earth.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27670076 - 02/23/22 05:41 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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BrendanFlock
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Coming to terms with the idea that no one else can do what you CAN do.
Each person has a different path..
But we can learn to understand and love each other.
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Buster_Brown
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I'm slow. By the time I understand something it's obsolete.
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Forrester
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: But we can learn to understand and love each other.
Very true. Ive found if I try to love people, even the ones I don't initially like, I become able to understand them better and see how and why they may operate how they do. Then it's much easier to love and appreciate them as fellow humans in this strange and sometimes rough experience.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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syncro
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Splain it por favor.
Quote:
Buster_Brown said:

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Buster_Brown
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27671277 - 02/24/22 07:05 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Oh, I merely added up the influences present, I think, in conversation and seasoned them with a pastiche of Tarot. Like at the beginning of this thread I recognized a pattern that Fleabag F' appeared to be posing.
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Fleabag Friend
OTD Free Bag Fiend



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what pattern is that?
-------------------- "Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer 𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.
     𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮
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BrendanFlock
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The patterns of time and dimensions!
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syncro
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27672696 - 02/25/22 06:55 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I was checking out the related thread listed below, first post anyway, UG opinion on LSD, generally saying that experiences don't mean anything.
At what point does something mean something, in merging? It's also taught elsewhere not to be attached to spiritual experience, that "knowledge" is beyond perception. Have you been in what you felt to be in a merged state, but also had thoughts and experience? Chasing the experience itself is not the goal (ok, I admit it can be a motivation). But we talk about it like the wonder views we saw on a trip. Some of my favorite places are in a distant part of my state, but I went there for work. I didn't fully grasp the motivations in the business of my contractors, but I was going to enjoy it where I could.
What's the point? No point. Barking dog shit! Just that UG is as full of shit talking about anything as anyone else, if going that route, which to his credit, he seems to admit.
Unless, what, freeing from suffering. Do enjoying experiences promote suffering? In a sense. Also not, I think, if they are part of you, if in a merged state, but that is by degrees.
In one meditation I am playing with dragons; in another, going into that formless non-self-reference except to only that of being free of anything. And even that self-reference can tend to merge, though I'm not that established in meditation. I'm still attached, I like playing with dragons, sometimes. Does that mean I will necessarily get a counter-quality, that experiencing heaven means I will have to experience hell? I think it all gradually elevates together, like some of the lowest qualities have dissipated.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27672706 - 02/25/22 07:05 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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"At what point does something mean something, in merging?"
Let's use the metaphor of yeast and flour; add yeast and the dough rises punch it down and let it rise again.
This is the process we are constantly in. Are you the yeast to be punched down or the flour base to be raised?
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Buster_Brown
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The bread we eat, life, is a product.
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syncro
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If a composition, then ignorance, a purist might say. If I want to rise up, I must be punched down. Yet creations are not lost in knowledge, it is said. Perhaps, at some point, it all gets so sweet, incomprehensible, like the heart of God. Creations, no creations, the fire light of heart, have you seen? ... While the fire light of incomprehensible love is in my eye, and in my eyes.
When I said that turiya is obvious, I was both sincere and lying. The challenge is the mental state around body consciousness in the waking state. The mental states around body consciousness, I've been affirming, are a lie. They have their purpose(?), but are counter to spirit.
A lot has been ventured about what is ego. Practically speaking, in terms of the damage it does, I think it is what we can make ourselves to be around gross bodily conditions.
More about turiya though, if the wave is the ocean, what is not turiya? I think I had read it in the Shiva Sutra, but thought, for example, that prana, life force, is turiya. Even in bodily sensations if not too taken, turiya can fade in like light through a sieve. The breath is turiya. A holy court sang, "We contemplate that experience of bliss where the senses meet their objects without any concept or division." paraphrased Maharamayana
Where senses meet objects without concept or division, light is sparked. It works well, again, if not too taken, in mental negativities, the simple affirmation of turiya can fade it in. Sometimes spontaneous, like I'm passive yet perception is as if half light showing through.
I got dosed hard by that Shiva Sutra the other day, but it fades again. More yeast!
Edited by syncro (02/25/22 09:33 AM)
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J the Hesychast
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Quote:
AnattaAtman said: The essential U. G. Krishnamurti
This guy rocks. He is a Pratyekabuddhá, a Buddha who does not teach. At least he claims to not be a teacher. In my opinion, he has a very neat way of explaining the problem with the ego.
Whatever you do, any spiritual practice - be it prayer, meditation, yoga, martial arts, you name it - cannot lessen the grip of the ego. The ego just plays a trick on you, and now defines as someone meditating. Whatever comes from the ego feeds back into the ego, actually strengthening it.
"My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody."
neti neti
-------------------- “Let him not brag of his progressive views, boast of his status as an academician or a recognized artist, a distinguished citizen or general. Let him say to himself plainly: I am cattle, I am a coward, I seek only warmth and to eat my fill.” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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syncro
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UG is not allowed to teach the practice of neti neti. It reminds me of, what was it, a zen story perhaps, a practitioner was sitting repeating some dharmic affirmation, and the teacher sat and started repeating, "this is my bowl, and this is my stick!"
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AnattaAtman
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AnattaAtman
Mad Bodhisattva

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Quote:
Fleabag Friend said: This thread is nothing but the barking of dogs!
"The barking of a dog or the grunting of a pig is more melodious than all this music." - U.G. Krishnamurti
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syncro
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Interesting he says the energy is that of thought; the question is whether it is useful. What would it be useful for if so? Of course we say, enlightenment, realization, or whatever the intention, healing, etc.
But with the dissolution of ego-formed identity, all that happens is not happening to anything, and does energy help with that dissolution? He's saying, no.
Then I put the question to myself, and to you Anatta and anyone. I assume you do practices; why do you do them?
I'll say, it purifies the bodies, and can reveal their natures, and subtle natures, and according to some schools, can mitigate karma. Such influences are shared, therefore, if chosen, a responsibility.
Yet, then, they don't help with realization. It is like the satori of a good golf swing, and I suck at golf, but none of the practice is present in that timeless moment of a good swing. Then why practice? Because it's also bullshit, all the practice enabled the setting. ?
Practice is not necessary for the subtlety of mind for realization, yet practice is to bring the subtlety. It's gravity that drops the golf ball into the hole, not the training. But the pro gets much better scores, and teaches others to do so. He's saying the message of good golf is only fraud marketing because it has no influence on the law of gravity.
woof!
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AnattaAtman
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Re: U. G. Krishnamurti [Re: syncro]
#27679483 - 03/02/22 09:54 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
syncro said: Interesting he says the energy is that of thought; the question is whether it is useful.
I think he says somewhere that thought is your enemy.
Quote:
Then I put the question to myself, and to you Anatta and anyone. I assume you do practices; why do you do them?
I mostly practice the paramitas: Generosity, morality, renunciation, discernment, energy, patience, honesty, resolution, love and equanimity. I understand the problem with the ego according to U. G. Krishnamurti, that any action done by the ego feeds back into it. The trick is not trying to overcome the ego, but to simply ignore it. Ignoring the self is not an action of the self, since something cannot ignore itself.
I practice to become a Buddha one fine day. I am not so much interested in emptiness or unity or the cosmic self, and all that mystical stuff. I prefer hands-on, practical knowledge, like the recollection of past lives, or the immediate positive results of the practice of love. This is how I understand the dhamma, where satori - emptiness, shunyata - is only step seven of the eightfold path.
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BrendanFlock
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Quote:
AnattaAtman said:
Quote:
syncro said: Interesting he says the energy is that of thought; the question is whether it is useful.
I think he says somewhere that thought is your enemy.
Quote:
Then I put the question to myself, and to you Anatta and anyone. I assume you do practices; why do you do them?
I mostly practice the paramitas: Generosity, morality, renunciation, discernment, energy, patience, honesty, resolution, love and equanimity. I understand the problem with the ego according to U. G. Krishnamurti, that any action done by the ego feeds back into it. The trick is not trying to overcome the ego, but to simply ignore it. Ignoring the self is not an action of the self, since something cannot ignore itself.
I practice to become a Buddha one fine day. I am not so much interested in emptiness or unity or the cosmic self, and all that mystical stuff. I prefer hands-on, practical knowledge, like the recollection of past lives, or the immediate positive results of the practice of love. This is how I understand the dhamma, where satori - emptiness, shunyata - is only step seven of the eightfold path.
Interesting! So then may I ask.. what is the 8th and final step on the Buddhist path?
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AnattaAtman
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: Interesting! So then may I ask.. what is the 8th and final step on the Buddhist path?
You meditate and gain the triple knowledge (tevijja): Recollection of past lives, insight into the workings of karma, and the knowledge that you have abandoned unwholesome states of mind. Remembering ones past lives is the most important one.
All three of them taken together kills your tanha (thirst for live). You may then enter nirvana. If you want to, that is. I suggest you hang around a little.
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BrendanFlock
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Nice man, sounds excellent!
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