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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Philip K. Dick and modern society
    #27651339 - 02/08/22 06:53 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I recently read the PKD book Vulcan's Hammer, and came across a passage that struck me as particularly topical and relevant:

Quote:

“The dissatisfaction of the masses is not based on economic deprivation but on a sense of ineffectually [sic]. Not an increased standard of living, but more social power, is their fundamental goal, because of their emotional orientation, they arise and act when a powerful leader-figure can coordinate them into a functioning unit rather than a chaotic mass of unformed elements.”




Do you find this to be factual? And if so, how might it apply to current and recent events? I find it decidedly interesting that it was written in 1960.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.


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InvisibleBlack Cat
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #27651363 - 02/08/22 07:14 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I think it comes close to describing the right wing mindset

Most leftists I know have actual demands that are economic in nature. They also understand that economic power and social power are one and the same.


Edited by Black Cat (02/08/22 07:17 PM)


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Offlinefather_fungi
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: Black Cat]
    #27651491 - 02/08/22 08:51 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

A lucid observation that transcends recent history - 1960 is a blink of the eye.

Almost makes me want to say "Duh", but it's so elegantly stated!

The lone wolf is admirable, but together...  Mob mentality.


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OfflineDoomyShroom
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: father_fungi]
    #27651555 - 02/08/22 09:52 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Incredibly lucid thought, I agree.


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OfflineBSUUF2
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: DoomyShroom]
    #27651643 - 02/08/22 11:15 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I'd prefer chaotic mass with properly grounded morals + rules/no rulers and no cubicles/no CEOs, just some self employment and free market. Produce more than you consume.


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Edited by BSUUF2 (02/08/22 11:16 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #27651803 - 02/09/22 04:54 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

The culture war is a distraction from real economic issues. Mr potato head, Dr suess and m and ms are not valuable topics.

It's something people can argue over to remove attention from the real issues people are facing.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27651910 - 02/09/22 07:26 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I recently read the PKD book Vulcan's Hammer, and came across a passage that struck me as particularly topical and relevant:

Quote:

“The dissatisfaction of the masses is not based on economic deprivation but on a sense of ineffectually [sic]. Not an increased standard of living, but more social power, is their fundamental goal, because of their emotional orientation, they arise and act when a powerful leader-figure can coordinate them into a functioning unit rather than a chaotic mass of unformed elements.”




Do you find this to be factual? And if so, how might it apply to current and recent events? I find it decidedly interesting that it was written in 1960.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.




The economy was better in the 60's but social power/status is always in short supply so people will always organize in ways to advance their own agendas via powerful leader-figures.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: Rahz]
    #27651937 - 02/09/22 07:54 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

some do


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27652316 - 02/09/22 12:53 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

That's true. Point being, social struggle goes on regardless of the economy due to dissatisfaction of the masses.


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: Rahz]
    #27652371 - 02/09/22 01:39 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

It would appear that way, even if the struggles were caused by political media manipulations and any one of several other cheap mind boggling tricks we have recently been witnessing.

In Canada there is an orchestration of trucking convoys (should I call them battalions) performing highway obstruction operations to pressure the country to end covid mandates.

This is a larger scale operation in many ways than the Capitol insurrection, and while no deaths have yet occurred, and no big surprises either, the transportation blockage is immense, unignorably immense.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27653062 - 02/09/22 11:16 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

The bulk of human dissatisfaction & misery is rooted in the nature of civilization. The term "disintegration" applies.  We evolved in highly integrated groups, yet most humans don't experience this essential aspect of living. People call my city of 40K a "community". A Christmas parade doesn't make us a "community". 

Collective hatred supports the illusion of intimacy & connection. Political parties claim to oppose hatred and then engage in hatred themselves. Things have become so distorted. I'm tired of people telling me POC are never racist. The term POC is a distortion.  As if the world contains 2 groups - POC & whites. We've been lied to. 

Does Barrack Obama blame his white rage on his mother? 

It's a lie to call him black. Barrack has never had the courage to admit he is as much a white man as black. He missed such a critical opportunity that it's shameful.  He has never addressed the truth of the matter. Yet he is practically worshipped my millions as the first "black" US president.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #27653194 - 02/10/22 04:38 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

is your comment about Obama's racial origin a reflection of your community's bias or is it personal bullshit.

either way, what the hell is it doing here?


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InvisibleBlack Cat
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #27653450 - 02/10/22 09:21 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
The bulk of human dissatisfaction & misery is rooted in the nature of civilization. The term "disintegration" applies.  We evolved in highly integrated groups, yet most humans don't experience this essential aspect of living. People call my city of 40K a "community". A Christmas parade doesn't make us a "community". 

Collective hatred supports the illusion of intimacy & connection. Political parties claim to oppose hatred and then engage in hatred themselves. Things have become so distorted. I'm tired of people telling me POC are never racist. The term POC is a distortion.  As if the world contains 2 groups - POC & whites. We've been lied to. 

Does Barrack Obama blame his white rage on his mother? 

It's a lie to call him black. Barrack has never had the courage to admit he is as much a white man as black. He missed such a critical opportunity that it's shameful.  He has never addressed the truth of the matter. Yet he is practically worshipped my millions as the first "black" US president.



Tldr: Racist, hate-filled Trump supporter whines about how society no longer looks kindly upon his racism and hate


Edited by Black Cat (02/10/22 09:21 AM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: Black Cat]
    #27653603 - 02/10/22 10:48 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

There's a difference between being a racist and experiencing and expressing stress over racial issues. I see merit in the comment on POC vs whites. The idea seems divisive and worth talking about. Regardless of what others may ascribe to me I do not characterize myself primarily as a white person nor do I consider the vast majority of white people to be on my side or like me or inherently better or worse than people of another color.

https://www.newsweek.com/black-people-who-oppose-critical-race-theory-are-being-erased-opinion-1626429

I don't think Obama needed to let anyone know he was half white or that it should have been made an issue of. I suspect those comments are a misplaced expression of angst over the existence of racial strife rather than of a racist, but that is only my perception. Tubs may want to clarify for himself, but it's not something anyone here should have to do.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (02/10/22 01:24 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27654378 - 02/10/22 08:20 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I recently read the PKD book Vulcan's Hammer, and came across a passage that struck me as particularly topical and relevant:

Quote:

“The dissatisfaction of the masses is not based on economic deprivation but on a sense of ineffectually [sic]. Not an increased standard of living, but more social power, is their fundamental goal, because of their emotional orientation, they arise and act when a powerful leader-figure can coordinate them into a functioning unit rather than a chaotic mass of unformed elements.”




Do you find this to be factual? And if so, how might it apply to current and recent events? I find it decidedly interesting that it was written in 1960.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.




Perhaps the quote is self contradictory? As soon as the masses submit to a 'powerful leader', that leader now has the power, and  not them. This is of course the history of all the communist nations.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: laughingdog]
    #27654386 - 02/10/22 08:28 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

As regards Obama regardless of color he was a very privileged person compared to most minorities or POC, so in that sense he was not remarkable at all. Later his policies, like Clinton's showed him to be very establishment, & not remarkable at all.
I'm thinking of starting assassination by drones, and hiring a wall street banker to fix the financial crisis. But these were typical, I think.


Edited by laughingdog (02/10/22 08:30 PM)


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InvisibleBlack Cat
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: laughingdog]
    #27654390 - 02/10/22 08:31 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Fuck Obama. Tubs is still vile.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: laughingdog]
    #27654398 - 02/10/22 08:35 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Obama was elegant, who else in that office was elegant?

the government is not the president so some things on his watch were messy as the government sorted itself out - a mess, then worse.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27654577 - 02/10/22 11:42 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

He sure knew how to put lipstick on a missile.

One elegant individual doesn't make do for a feral system.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Philip K. Dick and modern society [Re: sudly]
    #27654741 - 02/11/22 05:30 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

to a great extent the missiles were launched (ordered, fabricated, and deployed) and expected long before Obama. I do not perceive that they were his will and his legacy.

As a country's leader one represents not only one's own group but the democracy of all groups, including the lipstick and the missile.


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