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OfflineGh0stflower
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Registered: 01/08/22
Posts: 16
Last seen: 2 years, 24 days
Cakes or mono tub for beginner?
    #27626696 - 01/21/22 06:52 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Hi!

I've been reading a while but cant really make a decission.

I dont have any experience growing.
I do have a pressure cooker.

So should I go with cakes or should I go (i think its called bulk right?) for a mono tub?

And which tek would you recommend starting out with?

Bod's Unmodified Monotub TEK seems most obvious for the monotub, and the humidity chamber or water tub for cakes i think?


If you're wondering why I want to grow;
Well, for the fun of it, the occasional trip, also budget reasons (magic truffles are about €15 for 15-25 gram here, in the Netherlands) And also, I'm curious about micro dosing.

So yeah, please enlighten me and have a goodday :smile:

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OfflineMastershakes
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Registered: 09/05/21
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower] * 2
    #27626708 - 01/21/22 07:03 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Wet your feet with something like the PF tek. Simple and will get you some mushrooms to start.

Once you figure out how to do PF cakes, then you can move to spawning them to bulk (mixing a shred up cake with coconut choir).

Then you learn Agar, and can move on to using grains.

It's easier to do small shoeboxes for beginner grows. They require no holes to modify, and can produce more then enough mushrooms for a group of friends. These will require you to be working with grains, so that means you need to have your sterile technique on point, and be working with agar.

Or ideally. You get one syringe. Use 80% of it in PF cakes, and the rest you start to experiment with agar and learn them side by side.


* you can never go wrong following any of bod's teks*


--------------------
:mushroom2:My LAGM 2.022! :mushroom2:

Imagine 30 minutes after eating mushrooms. You feel something in your teeth and a nice flavorful chunk of re hydrated mushrooms falls out. THE FLAVOR.

Edited by Mastershakes (01/21/22 07:07 AM)

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OfflineDharmaForKarma
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Mastershakes]
    #27626725 - 01/21/22 07:21 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Great post Mastershakes.

Gh0stflower, PF cakes are an excellent starting point. You can use cakes to spawn grain directly, no agar required. Very similar to grain to grain transfers (g2g) - break up the cake and pour it in, a little in each jar.

One cake, one jar, one shoebox and boom! you’re growing cubes.  Lots and lots of cubes.

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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Mastershakes]
    #27626732 - 01/21/22 07:29 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

It sounds like agar will be in your future, so you might as well get started on it now.  Either streak some plates with drop of MS or spores from your print to get started.  Once you have a clean culture, send it to grains > tubs.

I started with Bods unmodified tubs, but the tradeoff of not doing the work upfront of customizing a tub for the environment is that it only works well in limited scenarios.  I consistently had problems with too much FAE unless they were completely sealed and eventually relegated those tubs to clothes storage.  Not being able to stack them without using a bulky shelf system sucked as well.

Ever since I switched to Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs all of my FAE issues went away and the tubs were 'hands off until harvest' with no interaction needed until then.  The tubs are cheaper, they stack well and setting them up only requires a 1/4" drill bit or a way to melt ~1/4" holes in it.

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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower]
    #27626755 - 01/21/22 07:54 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Are you hoping to grow Ps cubensis mushrooms or Ps tampanensis/mexicana truffles? You could buy fresh stones and biopsy to agar then transfer to grains. Probably good genetics from the smart shops.

Does your PC run at 15psi?

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OfflineSpooff
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: ModularMind] * 1
    #27626765 - 01/21/22 08:11 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Unless you plan on making a hobby out of it, I would recommend starting with the BRF PF Tek.
I just birthed the first two jars from my first actual grow not from a kit yesterday.
And before I started, I had all these grand ideas about all these bulk grows I was going to do and all the canopies I was going to have.
But honestly, unless you already have some kind of background already with cultivation of mushrooms or working in sterile conditions/lab work, PF Tek is the way to go.
I started with BRF PF, and it gave a much better understanding of whats going on.
And it gave me a lot more time to do research into agar, grains, bulk, tub teks and everything.
So now I will be starting agar work soon and I will be going into it with a better understanding of whats going on.
And if you fuck up BRF PF, its no biggie usually. Still likely to get fruits and if you fuck up bad, anything not reusable is super cheap.
Jumping straight into doing things the "right way" is enticing and seems like the right thing to do,
But imo, in this hobby, starting basic and climbing your way up the ladder seems like the way to go in terms of avoiding pulling your hair out.
Experience and research are the keys to this kingdom.
A lot of these guys make it look and sound simple, which it is, but only once you have a general understanding of the organism itself. Which only comes with experience and research.
95% of the mistakes I see noobs like us make, or questions they ask, or freak outs they have, all could have been avoided with proper research.
So just in short, I would recommend BRF PF Tek, and in the process, do a deep dive into everything cultivation.
And do your deep dive here. Dont listen to anything from reddit or youtube or anything.
Some of them know what they are doing, but MANY give TERRIBLE advice. And most are just seeking clicks.
Here are MANY experience cultivators, who know what the fuck they are talking about and this place if full of tried and tested Teks which are proven to be effective.
Absolutely any info you need you can find here, if you cant find it, ask, and you will get an answer.
Good luck to you and welcome to the Shroomery.
:leocheers:


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,153
Loc: Try 'n' Error Boot Camp
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Spooff]
    #27626841 - 01/21/22 09:17 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

for the fun of it ===> agar/bulk, it's maximum fun and goes much
deeper, more skills to master but higher costs involved. PC should
reach 15 PSI ideally, please post photo of yours.

budget reasons ===> PF-TEK, easier/simple, versatile, cheap but less
to explore, loosing some degree of control since using spore syringes
directly to substrate, less of a challenge

It depends a lot on your personality, your skills and feeling for
things. If your PC is adequate and you like a challenge then I'd go
agar/bulk, that's how I started.

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27626843 - 01/21/22 09:20 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I've never done cakes


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
:dancingbear: :dancingbear:

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Offlinerotor7
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Spooff]
    #27626848 - 01/21/22 09:24 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Start with saying don't follow me...

I got in this with watching YouTube videos way before finding this site. I watched some videos about mono tubs and it seemed easy enough.

I think if you have the space the mono tub is way easier IMO especially if you follow someone like Bod's tek

I am already starting my next grow and going to do Bod's tek along with another Tek to see which is better for me. My first grow was a train wreck but was still able to harvest 2 mason jars full of dried fruits.

I also want to do Coir  vs CVG substrate  just making thing simple.

This is becoming more of a hobby to me along with starting some agar plates now that I have something to take to agar.

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OfflineTurvenuija
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Registered: 11/07/18
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower]
    #27626912 - 01/21/22 10:17 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I did my first two grows using brf cakes in a SGFC, and I found I hate SGFCs. Perlite is a bitch to handle and it gets everywhere when you're soaking it in water. Cakes alone give you very few fruits for the effort you put in so my amateur recommendation is to just go directly to bulk. I used shoeboxes and followed this tek https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24945782/page/1

Good luck!


--------------------

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OfflineGh0stflower
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Registered: 01/08/22
Posts: 16
Last seen: 2 years, 24 days
Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: rotor7]
    #27626958 - 01/21/22 10:43 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks a lot for all the reactions!

Been reading them, and sorry if I misunderstood something, please do correct me if I did.

To sum things up:

Most of you recommend starting out with a cake. So should I just do the water tub with a brf cake? And play with agar in the meantime?

And once I get the hang of them, move on to bod's unmodified monotub or Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs if I struggle with the humidity?

Does that sound like the recommended plan?


And to answer ModularMind's question:
I was thinking going cubensis yeah and this still seems like the best starting point. But i'm open to suggestions.

But you mentioned buying some good truffles and make agar of them. I didnt think about that yet but sounds like a fun side project later on, will look into it.

My pc is 'Tefal all-in-one cy505e', I think it goes up to 12 PSI.

Edited by Gh0stflower (01/21/22 10:45 AM)

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OfflineVibetyme
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower]
    #27626977 - 01/21/22 10:58 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I broke 4 cakes up per Shoebox

The shoebox is way better for holding proper conditions.


--------------------
Vibetyme's LAGM 2.022

Vibetyme's LAGM_23

Vibetyme's LAGM_24

                 

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OfflineGh0stflower
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Registered: 01/08/22
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Vibetyme]
    #27627021 - 01/21/22 11:24 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, thanks.

Yes, I'm mainly left doubting if you guys do recommend shredding the cake up or not.

Edit: Noticed I did misunderstood something, my appologies.

So most did suggest starting out with the PF tek jars and spawn a shoe box or some.

Is this the coir I need? Found it for €1 at a local shop.
https://www.action.com/nl-be/p/kokos-potgrond-/

And adding vermiculite to the bulk substrate is recommended, but the gypsum not necessarily, right?

Thanks

Edited by Gh0stflower (01/21/22 07:33 PM)

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OfflineMastershakes
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Registered: 09/05/21
Posts: 155
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Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower]
    #27627588 - 01/21/22 07:32 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gh0stflower said:
Alright, thanks.

Yes, I'm mainly left doubting if you guys do recommend shredding the cake up or not.

Edit: Noticed I did misunderstood something, my appologies.

So most suggested starting out with the PF tek jars and spawn a (small) box.

I've been looking into which spawn and bulk substrate 'materials' to get. And currently leaning towards BRF as spawn oat and coir as bulk substrate.

Is this the coir I need? Found it for €1 at a local shop.
https://www.action.com/nl-be/p/kokos-potgrond-/

And adding vermiculite to the substrate is recommended right?
And the gypsum is quite unnecessary, from what i've read?

Thanks!




Great advice in this thread

if you want, for ease you can also just spawn baggies IE fahtbags
These are great because they allow for all sizes of grows. I use them when I have some leftover, or I just want to put a lot of stuff to bulk to experiment.  Another HUGE advantage is that you can use one jar of PF cake/bag so you do not risk mixing in multiple jars where one may have contamination. 

*example*  I was cleaning up a nasty syringe. I had 4 cakes that took forever to colonize. I knew they were bacterial/mouldy, but by separating them in their own bags I was able to toss 3/4 as they contaminated, leaving the 4th to have a great flush and provide me prints! Preventing each from infecting my entire setup.


The link you sent does not look like coconut choir. It looks like potting mix.  you want straight coconut choir. It looks like you are in europe, so I doubt it will be quiet that cheap as 1 buck per block.

Something along the lines of this: https://www.amazon.com/ZeeDix-Premium-Compressed-Starting-Gardening/dp/B08V8S5VTB/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3V6MCM2JSENOI&keywords=coconut+choir&qid=1642818502&sprefix=coconut+choii%2Caps%2C481&sr=8-8

A choir (compressed or not) that has NO added nutrients or fertilizers.

As for adding vermiculite, it is not needed (same as gypsum). The only time I add vermiculite is when I fuck up my moisture levels and the choir is too wet. I add Verm until the choir is at field capacity. (you could also just squeeze out excess moisture.


--------------------
:mushroom2:My LAGM 2.022! :mushroom2:

Imagine 30 minutes after eating mushrooms. You feel something in your teeth and a nice flavorful chunk of re hydrated mushrooms falls out. THE FLAVOR.

Edited by Mastershakes (01/21/22 07:37 PM)

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OfflineGh0stflower
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Registered: 01/08/22
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Mastershakes]
    #27627869 - 01/22/22 01:32 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Hi, thanks for the input.

I do like the concept of starting out with the bags and will consider them.

Regarding to the soil I found. It does say '100% coco soil' on the bag.

I will just drop by the store today and check if I can find a more detailed ingredients list on it. This shop also sells containers, I wanted to check them out anyway.

And one more thing I'm doubting between is BRF vs rye. I couldn't quickly find a recent topic about it, but rye seems better.
The main problem is getting it. Could order a 25kg organic rye bag for €34 (including shipping) but 25kg is a lot..


Yes, this thread has great advice. I made a lot of progress reading last night, am very thankful :smile:.

Edited by Gh0stflower (01/22/22 01:48 AM)

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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Registered: 04/29/20
Posts: 1,415
Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower]
    #27627877 - 01/22/22 02:04 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

One important thing is to follow a tek as closely as you possibly can when new. Straying from the path makes it difficult to troubleshoot. Good luck whatever you decide.

EDIT: I personally would go agar to grain a la EZ Dial. I failed at fruiting pf cakes but I didn't follow directions!! I have all my fav teks in my sig... except I'm switching to rye from oats (too much mold ime). Gonna use Hamloaf's super simple 10/10 rye prep tek.


--------------------
Bod's Easy AF Search Engine TEK

Let's stay focused on what works consistently.

"Sitting in a bunker here behind my wall..."

Edited by myc_ousin_vinny (01/22/22 02:29 AM)

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OfflineMastershakes
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower] * 1
    #27628029 - 01/22/22 07:15 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

If you are going rye, then you need to learn how to do Agar first. it's not a big deal, but one more step in the whole proccess.

Brown rice flour cakes do not require you to learn agar first.

Do both side by side and learn. Honestly BRF cakes kind of piss me off, but I get good flushes of 25g wet per cake off of a syringe that could not even germinate on agar.

BRF has its advantages and is most likely to produce some quicker results. Rye and grains will be a lot more fun long term for you. If you enjoy this as a hobby.


--------------------
:mushroom2:My LAGM 2.022! :mushroom2:

Imagine 30 minutes after eating mushrooms. You feel something in your teeth and a nice flavorful chunk of re hydrated mushrooms falls out. THE FLAVOR.

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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Posts: 1,415
Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Mastershakes]
    #27628057 - 01/22/22 07:54 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mastershakes said:
If you are going rye, then you need to learn how to do Agar first. it's not a big deal, but one more step in the whole proccess.

Brown rice flour cakes do not require you to learn agar first.

Do both side by side and learn. Honestly BRF cakes kind of piss me off, but I get good flushes of 25g wet per cake off of a syringe that could not even germinate on agar.

BRF has its advantages and is most likely to produce some quicker results. Rye and grains will be a lot more fun long term for you. If you enjoy this as a hobby.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
Bod's Easy AF Search Engine TEK

Let's stay focused on what works consistently.

"Sitting in a bunker here behind my wall..."

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OfflineGh0stflower
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Mastershakes]
    #27628089 - 01/22/22 08:25 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

So why would I need to learn agar first for rye? And which tek do you recommend for preparing the rye, and which tek for the agar?

Cheers!

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Cakes or mono tub for beginner? [Re: Gh0stflower]
    #27628094 - 01/22/22 08:37 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

You dont need to learn agar before you learn grain prep. Hell, you dont need to learn agar at all. But it helps.


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
:dancingbear: :dancingbear:

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