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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27646315 - 02/04/22 09:53 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
That leftists take the side of the cheap labour importers and not the native workers just shows how utterly ideologically bankrupt they are.




That's an unintended consequence of an internationalist approach to human rights in a capitalist global economy. Just like your nationalist approach has the unintended consequence of outsourcing labour to countries with weaker labour laws. Either way, "Big Business and corporate overlords" will continue to profit off of worker exploitation.

You combat outsourcing by either fighting for international workers rights or trending towards a closed economy. Unfortunately, natural resources are not equally distributed - global trade is a necessity for a nation that wishes to access integral resources (in today's society) like chromium and lithium. An isolated nationalism isn't a viable strategy. On the other hand, fighting for international workers rights has the benefit of reducing the exploitability of cheap labour both outsourced and imported. So why do you prefer to stick to your nationalist disposition when we could ignite a global working class?


You don't get rid of weeds by running them over with a motor and scattering them everywhere else - you need to get right to the root and remove it entirely.

You don't get rid of the exploitation of workers through nationalism - you need to get right to the root, capitalism.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Liverwort]
    #27646664 - 02/05/22 07:40 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?




It's so rich when leftists suddenly develop a concern for fiscal responsibility.




Oh you mean the people who see things through a strictly material lense? Yeah real shock.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor] * 1
    #27646668 - 02/05/22 07:42 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Are you aware that you stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Big Business and your corporate overlords on immigration?




The corporate overlords control every lever of power in the world, but rather than ask why or what to do differently, you’re content being a prisoner. So long as you’re imprisoned with prisoners from your own country, you’re happy as a clam.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27647117 - 02/05/22 02:55 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
You combat outsourcing by either fighting for international workers rights




:super:

Thanks to the union movement and a change of government to The Labor Party in 2007 foreign workers now enjoy exactly the same conditions as all Australian workers. Dismantling the unfair dismissal laws was the key, thank you to the ACTU and Fuck You ex Conservative PM John Howard.

Half a million New Zilanders living in Aus are doing well. The minimum wage is $19.50 but the average wage is far above that. A lot of Pacific Island nations even Indonesia benefit from the change in conditions.

The Aus workforce is/(was before covid) made up with 11% of overseas workers.

Imported labour doesn't have to cause problems if you have a government that actually does what the voters ask it to do.

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Offlineasterix
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27647251 - 02/05/22 05:00 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

That's great to hear.

Of course it's all by design, this beat down North American labour.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: asterix]
    #27647282 - 02/05/22 05:17 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

New Zealand has similar workplace laws to ours so I don't really understand the OP's argument.

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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27651785 - 02/09/22 04:29 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

viktor said:
That leftists take the side of the cheap labour importers and not the native workers just shows how utterly ideologically bankrupt they are.




That's an unintended consequence of an internationalist approach to human rights in a capitalist global economy. Just like your nationalist approach has the unintended consequence of outsourcing labour to countries with weaker labour laws. Either way, "Big Business and corporate overlords" will continue to profit off of worker exploitation.

You combat outsourcing by either fighting for international workers rights or trending towards a closed economy. Unfortunately, natural resources are not equally distributed - global trade is a necessity for a nation that wishes to access integral resources (in today's society) like chromium and lithium. An isolated nationalism isn't a viable strategy. On the other hand, fighting for international workers rights has the benefit of reducing the exploitability of cheap labour both outsourced and imported. So why do you prefer to stick to your nationalist disposition when we could ignite a global working class?


You don't get rid of weeds by running them over with a motor and scattering them everywhere else - you need to get right to the root and remove it entirely.

You don't get rid of the exploitation of workers through nationalism - you need to get right to the root, capitalism.




No nationalist would make his fellows unemployed so that he could more profitably import cheap shit made by foreign slaves. That wasn't even a concept during the age of nationalism.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27651788 - 02/09/22 04:32 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

How are you going to ignite a global working class when the working class in some countries has an IQ of 103 and the working class in other countries has an IQ of 60?

Working-class people in Singapore have nothing in common with working-class people in Equatorial Guinea.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor] * 2
    #27651804 - 02/09/22 04:56 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

This is the age of global capitalism, and these capitalists aren't nationalists - they use nationalism to divide the working class, but they'll do business anywhere it's profitable. Working-class people in Singapore have more in common with working-class people in Equatorial Guinea, than they will ever have with the ruling-class of their own country.


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OfflineBSUUF2
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27651834 - 02/09/22 05:42 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Didn't read the thread, too short attention span. I've worked with various migrants, no personal problems with them, I liked a particular Iraqi (Saddam fan, AK47 bam bam bam) and (hey, we've got Merkeled here in 2015 or so and got a million of them, instead of spreading them out equally between EU countries, and now we've got that AfD nazi/anti-poke/whatever conspiracy crap shit going on too (reaching something like 20-25% in Germany's more eastern parts)...).

Main problem from my observation seems to be the language barrier.

A lot of Germans (I might be somewhat biased by being sometimes a little bit too open minded (mind sometimes goes full pi) in general seem unnecessarily anal about some things, especially these HR (wannabe) "MENSA materials" (what does an IQ test finally prove? You can solve an IQ test or not).

If you aren't speaking and especially writing proper German by the holy Duden, you'll have no chance, except slaving in a factory on minimum wage. If you're clever, you'll rather siphon off welfare, put money aside, get a lot of kids (more welfare "Kindergeld", also solves that pesky demographic problem, avoid stupid large TVs, drugs, booze, cigs, fancy Audis), put money aside, start a non tax paying business as a side hustle and move that money into your own tax paying business, improve your looney maundering skills, move even more non tax paying business worthless funny printed paper into your tax paying business, sell your start-up, once those HR sweeties start popping up and go all in on gold.


--------------------
LAGM2022

Edited by BSUUF2 (02/09/22 05:47 AM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27651846 - 02/09/22 06:07 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

viktor said:
That leftists take the side of the cheap labour importers and not the native workers just shows how utterly ideologically bankrupt they are.




That's an unintended consequence of an internationalist approach to human rights in a capitalist global economy. Just like your nationalist approach has the unintended consequence of outsourcing labour to countries with weaker labour laws. Either way, "Big Business and corporate overlords" will continue to profit off of worker exploitation.

You combat outsourcing by either fighting for international workers rights or trending towards a closed economy. Unfortunately, natural resources are not equally distributed - global trade is a necessity for a nation that wishes to access integral resources (in today's society) like chromium and lithium. An isolated nationalism isn't a viable strategy. On the other hand, fighting for international workers rights has the benefit of reducing the exploitability of cheap labour both outsourced and imported. So why do you prefer to stick to your nationalist disposition when we could ignite a global working class?


You don't get rid of weeds by running them over with a motor and scattering them everywhere else - you need to get right to the root and remove it entirely.

You don't get rid of the exploitation of workers through nationalism - you need to get right to the root, capitalism.




No nationalist would make his fellows unemployed so that he could more profitably import cheap shit made by foreign slaves. That wasn't even a concept during the age of nationalism.




The answer to this, is this.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
This is the age of global capitalism, and these capitalists aren't nationalists - they use nationalism to divide the working class, but they'll do business anywhere it's profitable. Working-class people in Singapore have more in common with working-class people in Equatorial Guinea, than they will ever have with the ruling-class of their own country.




--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27652359 - 02/09/22 01:30 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I suspect OP's solution is to replace the capitalists with "true nationalists".

Ya know, just like how we replaced political elites with a normal, everyday guy like Trump, who lives in the top floor of a skyscraper with his name on it and shits in a golden toilet. Just like the average American.

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InvisibleBlack Cat
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Kryptos]
    #27652387 - 02/09/22 01:52 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

When you have a government that is completely beholden to the biggest lobbyist group in the country like the Chamber of Commerce, that’s what you’re going to get: Policy written for and by the capitalists to the detriment of everyone and everything else.

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Kryptos]
    #27652478 - 02/09/22 03:14 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I'd be interested to see specifically when this age of nationalism occured. I'm willing to bet that foreign slaves were being used to create cheap imports even during viktor's mythical golden age.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27652615 - 02/09/22 05:17 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Nationalist are working class males for the most part, with a few opportunistic leaders. They have almost nothing to do with capitalism and border policy, and if we want to be accurate border policy has little to do with actually happens with immigration.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages *DELETED* [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27655893 - 02/12/22 12:39 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Enlil

Reason for deletion: Overt and despicable racism.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27656045 - 02/12/22 06:40 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Have you ever been to either country?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27656388 - 02/12/22 01:05 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Relevant:


Quote:

viktor said:
I can't speak for all anarchists, but the ones I know [...] blatantly hate the working classes and consider us dumb racists. [...] I used to be part of an anarchist group here in NZ before I was kicked out for opposing the mass importation of cheap labour.



Edited by shivas.wisdom (02/13/22 07:57 PM)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27656738 - 02/12/22 07:01 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

:lolsy:


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