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Offlineviktor
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The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages * 2
    #27626303 - 01/20/22 08:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

The Western World has had mass immigration of cheap labour for over half a century now. When it began, we were told that it was going to make us all richer by growing our economies. When it didn’t make us richer, we were told that we were benefitting from it anyway on account of the cultural benefits of diversity. By 2022, the propaganda isn’t working any more. Now, the ruling classes admit what intelligent working-class people knew all along.

The reality is that the entire purpose of mass immigration was to suppress wages. This was why it was introduced in the first place.

Mass immigration of cheap labour was pushed by the international banking and finance interests who won World War Two, knowing that the nationalists who would have resisted them were defeated. So those international banking and finance interests were free to demand whatever they wanted – and what they wanted was cheap labour.

Basic economics tells us that the price of any good or service is a function of its supply and demand. Increasing the supply of any good or service lowers its price, and decreasing the supply of any good or service raises its price. This logic is so well established that it’s taught to high school economics students all around the world.

The ownership class of the West has strenuously denied this basic economic logic ever since the mass importation of cheap labour began. Increasing the supply of labour would actually make workers richer, they claimed, because of some magical network effect that would lead to a rising economic tide lifting all boats. Opponents of mass immigration were declared to be guilty of something called The Lump of Labour fallacy.

These lies no longer convince the masses. The average worker is now so much poorer than 30 years ago that only the absolute dumbest of them still believes that mass immigration has been beneficial to anyone besides the ownership classes. The propaganda is no longer having the same effect – people have now caught on to the fact that the point of all the immigration was to suppress wages.

This was even admitted by the Irish Central Bank, who raised concerns that there weren’t enough immigrants coming into Ireland to have the desired “wage-dampening effect”. According to the bank, “sustained increases in net inward migration will be needed in the coming years to ensure that growth will be not impeded by labour supply constraints.” Apparently fair wages for native workers are an impediment to the most important thing of all: economic growth.

The same truth has also been admitted in New Zealand, where Lincoln University researcher Dr David Dyason conceded that “as labour supply tightens, the competition between industries to source students and other employees is expected to increase. This would lead to wage and salary increases.” The ruling class now appears unable to deny the basic economic logic that increasing the supply of cheap labour decreases wages.

The statistics bear this out. In the 12 months to November 2021, Kiwi salaries increased by a record 7.6 percent, and the total amount paid to workers in that time period increased by 9.6 percent. The reason for these massive increases is simple: because of immigration restrictions brought about by the coronavirus pandemic, employers were no longer able to undercut Kiwi workers by importing cheap labour from overseas.

The reality is that there’s nothing that benefits the native working classes more than restricting the supply of cheap labour. By the same token, however, there’s nothing that benefits the ownership classes less than restricting the supply of cheap labour. That’s why employers all over the Western World are bitching about “labour shortages”.

A “labour shortage” is the name given to the phenomenon of a low level of labour supply driving up the price. The price of labour, in the minds of our ruling class, is supposed to only go one way – down. That’s because labour is considered an expense to be minimised. The fact that the price of labour equals the prosperity of the working classes is ignored – the working classes aren’t considered people.

Employers all over the West are united when it comes to solving “labour shortages”: open the borders, let the cheap labour in. This unity exposes the fact that border control restricting the flow of cheap labour is extremely beneficial to the native working classes.

The Establishment has an entire mainstream media apparatus dedicated to denying this obvious reality. Convoluted reasons are given for why the mass immigration of cheap labour somehow makes us all better off – our countries are underpopulated, our countries are too white, better food, immigrants do the jobs natives are too lazy to etc. Then, if this nonsense doesn’t convince someone, they are simply smeared as racists.

The facts are these. The ownership classes and the international banking and finance interests are the only beneficiaries of the mass importation of cheap labour. Everyone else loses. Therefore, it can be confidently stated that anyone in favour of the mass importation of cheap labour is an enemy of the native working class.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27626349 - 01/20/22 08:56 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

The US has a native fertility rate of a little over 1.6 children per woman. This is ~0.5 children less than replacement level. If the US closes its borders, then the population of the US will begin to drop by approximately 23.8% per generation.

Certain workers get paid less because they vote against unions and love the right to work. That's why your boss gets a raise every year and you don't.

Plus, this is capitalism. Sink of swim, baby. I've gotten at least a 10% raise every year every year since I finished college. What do you want, some socialist big government infrastructure job? Socialist higher minimum wages? Speaking of, your talk of "workers" makes me think you might be a bit of a pinko yourself. You're a worker in a land of individualism.

Just like you said, basic economics. You wanna get paid more? Increase your demand.

EDIT: I believe the kids these days call it a "Sigma Male Grindset"

Edited by Kryptos (01/20/22 09:06 PM)

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27626512 - 01/21/22 12:05 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I went into Walmart for the first time in a long time this morning and when I went to check out there were 15 people in a giant self service square bagging their own shit and 1 human working a register .  The only reason I went is because the lines at the local grocery store are so bad now , more than half of the registers are always closed and allot of shelves are empty .  2 weeks ago I went into a fucking chevys and  had to walk out because no one would serve me .
    Where are these workers the op is complaining about ?
  Customer service is so bad these days I'm happy if I get anything with a wet hole and a pulse.


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Offlineoursoulsinmotion
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27626628 - 01/21/22 05:10 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I worked one summer w some Legit Jamacians @ a Lobster co- op & I am ALL for them making decent coin compared to what they get back home . It isnt the foreign workers tht are f'in up our country, its Automation , ya know, a Robot replacing a human worker.

What is the economy like in NZ? I read on BBC that there is a homeless crisis rn, is that true OP?


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Alikchi...., Alikchi...., Alikchi....

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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
    #27626650 - 01/21/22 05:57 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah we've got our worst homelessness crisis ever. Open borders but don't build houses, it was inevitable. Still nowhere that looks as bad as that Philly video:


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27626811 - 01/21/22 08:52 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
I went into Walmart for the first time in a long time this morning and when I went to check out there were 15 people in a giant self service square bagging their own shit and 1 human working a register .  The only reason I went is because the lines at the local grocery store are so bad now , more than half of the registers are always closed and allot of shelves are empty .  2 weeks ago I went into a fucking chevys and  had to walk out because no one would serve me .
    Where are these workers the op is complaining about ?
  Customer service is so bad these days I'm happy if I get anything with a wet hole and a pulse.




3 million boomers retired early last year, and now they complain about a worker shortage.

Quote:

viktor said:
Yeah we've got our worst homelessness crisis ever. Open borders but don't build houses, it was inevitable. Still nowhere that looks as bad as that Philly video:






If we build houses, then house prices will fall, and a bunch of boomers will become poor. We can't have poor boomers, so instead we have homelessness.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor] * 1
    #27630824 - 01/24/22 10:54 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27641938 - 02/02/22 07:15 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?




Well? What’s the solution, vik? Or are your politics purely reactionary?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27643262 - 02/03/22 12:17 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I bet viktor's former anarchist group asked the same question before kicking him out.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27643334 - 02/03/22 02:46 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

> oppose measures that lower working-class wages and make the lives of working-class people harder
> He's a reactionary! Crucify him!

Clown World.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27643672 - 02/03/22 10:05 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah you can’t see more than 6 inches in front of your face and that’s our fault.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27644477 - 02/03/22 07:34 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Are you aware that you stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Big Business and your corporate overlords on immigration?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27644522 - 02/03/22 08:08 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I always see The Ecstatic standing shoulder to shoulder with big business, OK.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

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InvisibleLiverwort
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27644634 - 02/03/22 10:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?




It's so rich when leftists suddenly develop a concern for fiscal responsibility.

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InvisibleLiverwort
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Kryptos]
    #27644640 - 02/03/22 10:10 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

The native fertility rate is low because we're being taxed to death to pay for the indolent.

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Liverwort]
    #27644681 - 02/03/22 10:57 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?




It's so rich when leftists suddenly develop a concern for fiscal responsibility.



I doubt anyone here contesting viktor's claims is worried about the fiscal cost of violating human rights. The point is that any attempt to secure a nations border from migrants will require a significant amount of money. For example: Australia, the EU, and the USA all currently spend ~5b/y (in their respective currencies) on border control. [These numbers might be low, I just did some very basic research] Considering people like victor consider current border protections insufficient, the current cost can be safely assumed as an underestimate of the true cost to effectively secure a national border.

If we further consider that the "Big Business and corporate overlords" operate under a system of global capitalism, any attempt to remedy this system of exploitation that limits itself to a nationalist approach will merely (if successful) shift that exploitation to other areas of the globe; rather than eliminate it completely. Global economic inequality is one of the major drivers of human migration, so any nationalist approach to protecting labour will need to continually increase border security expenditures - because greater inequality requires a greater amount of violence (or threat thereof) in order to maintain it.

Which is why, as The Ecstatic implies, the response to viktor's hypothesis is that we either spend trillions in the futile attempt to control the movement of humans or we directly challenge the economic system that allows exploitative "Big Business and corporate overlords" to exist in the first place. That neither you nor viktor appear able to provide any solution more developed than 'keep out the foreigners' lends weight to the idea that your politics are reactionary, rather than grounded in any actual critique of capitalism.


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Edited by shivas.wisdom (02/03/22 11:23 PM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Liverwort]
    #27644928 - 02/04/22 03:59 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?




It's so rich when leftists suddenly develop a concern for fiscal responsibility.




I think he would very much favor fiscal responsibility, so it could fund other things than the military industrial complex and billionaires.

Just a little history lesson. No one previously ever blew up the budget like Reagan did. W did it for his fake war. Trump did it for his tax cuts that mainly favored the wealthy, then eventually he did it for COVID, which Biden continued.

Obama did it to save capitalism when all the big banks failed; he didn't do it right but it had to be done. Clinton used the market boom to operate at a great surplus.

So when conservatives talk about fiscal responsibility, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about? Herbert Hoover?


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27645223 - 02/04/22 10:07 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Capers said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Does OP think we should waste trillions on a militarized border? Or perhaps reevaluate the systems of oppression that exploit us every day?




It's so rich when leftists suddenly develop a concern for fiscal responsibility.




It's even more rich when republicans pretend that they're fiscally responsible, because whenever they're in office it seems that the debt spikes higher. But that's to be expected, republicans are great at saying one thing and doing something else.

Quote:

viktor said:
Are you aware that you stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Big Business and your corporate overlords on immigration?




False choice fallacy. I know, it's hard to imagine that there are more than two solutions to a problem. Conservatives really like their black and white thinking. Hell, they even adopted a black and white flag as a symbol.

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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27646172 - 02/04/22 08:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

It's not a false choice. Big Business wants nothing more than open borders so that they can import cheap labour and undercut native workers for maximum profit. That leftists take the side of the cheap labour importers and not the native workers just shows how utterly ideologically bankrupt they are.

I'm not a conservative in any sense. Conservatives also stand with the cheap labour importers.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: The Purpose Of Mass Immigration Is, And Always Was, To Suppress Wages [Re: viktor]
    #27646186 - 02/04/22 08:33 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I honestly don't think you came into this discussion very thoughtfully, Viktor. Not saying you aren't capable, but the fact is that this site is largely North American and some European members. New Zealand (assuming that is where you are from) has entirely different (albeit tangental) immigration issues.

As much as you might disagree, New Zealand has a much higher average quality of life by many measures, even compared to the US. And being an island nation it has way higher immigration barriers naturally, though, I do understand NZ is a complex system of islands. Australia is 1000 miles away, otherwise it's like Tonga. And let's be honest, NZ does a pretty good job of exporting people. A lot leave and never return. That's a tough thing to crack if you don't import some people.


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