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Invisiblebaltazar
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Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 746
WORMWOOD
    #2762384 - 06/04/04 06:46 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)


you wont belive this but i found some wormwood growing in my own backyard :laugh:

I'm interested if i can use it somehow , i saw some information on erowid , but i want some more info ...

Can i dry wormwood and then try to smoke it or should i make a alcohol tincture out of it ? ( wormwood oil has some psychoactive properties , as i heard ... )

Can you help a bit around this ?

thx


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: baltazar]
    #2763609 - 06/04/04 03:44 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Look up absinthe. Your preaty lucky.. i heard using a small amount of fresh material helps the mix.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: Legoulash]
    #2764451 - 06/04/04 10:21 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

you ARE lucky.  im having to plant mine :wink:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=14142 .

this was provided to me from my thread here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...t=1#Post2762369


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineAneglakya Happy Birthday
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: Todcasil]
    #2765048 - 06/05/04 01:50 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

"wormwood oil has some psychoactive properties , as i heard ... ) "

Yeah .. If you consider convulsions and toxic comatose to be psychoactivity.


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Invisiblebaltazar
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Registered: 02/23/04
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2765330 - 06/05/04 03:52 AM (13 years, 21 days ago)

:laugh: lol , i didn't know it was toxic ...


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Offlinefr33dom
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: baltazar]
    #2793296 - 06/14/04 09:03 PM (13 years, 12 days ago)

ba if you want to get really fucktop try absinthe :wink:
smoked ... is not bad taste is good :wink: effet are so fast

but if you want to get really fucktop try this but wormwood powdered in alcool ( 94 % alcool ) after but soem absinthe without wormwood ( to change taste ) mixte it .. and drink it like 2 , 3 oz .. after 15 min you are so fucktop like weird buzz not a alcool trip :wink: like weird trip you can see green faery in your head so .. its weird .. but not bad and is so addictive .. i have never seen green faery but i have seen a weird trip :wink:


--------------------
-= Follow the white rabbit =-


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Invisiblematts
matts

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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: Aneglakya]
    #2793802 - 06/15/04 03:15 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)



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Invisiblebaltazar
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: matts]
    #2795514 - 06/15/04 04:58 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

fr33dom , can you tell me some more information about effects when smoking wormwood ???

Did you mean smoking dry leaves or the gummy like substance that you git through the solvent extraction method ?


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: baltazar]
    #2795675 - 06/15/04 05:54 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I made some really strong brew about a year ago. It took several months before I quit seeing shadows take shape in the corner of my eye. I would like to make a brew of all fresh ingrediants though. I have quite a good bit of Mellisa growing in my back yard and what I think is wormwood is growind there as well. I think the best way to go would be to brew up everything and then distill it rather than to just soak it in alcohol. The brew that I made was pretty faul. I just boiled up a shitload of wormwood and sweetflag and mixed in a bunch of sugar w/ some yeast and let it ferment for about 2-3 months and then filtered it and drank it. It was faul, but I didn't enjoy it alone. It was fucking strong though. You didn't feel like doing shitafter you had a glass or two.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: matts]
    #2795683 - 06/15/04 05:56 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

matts said:
any psychoactive chemical is technically a poison.



Not true. Not true at all. Not to say that not all are, but to say that ALL are is a misconception that really pisses me off. I am not saying that I haven't injested poison because nicotine and tropains clearly are, but psilocybin and THC are not. If something is less toxic than tylonol, then how is it a poison?


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlineneuro
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2795808 - 06/15/04 06:36 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Anything is poison at the right dose.


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Invisiblematts
matts

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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2795867 - 06/15/04 06:54 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)



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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: matts]
    #2795992 - 06/15/04 07:50 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

5L thats it?? Iv drinkin that.. no problem.. I used to drink like 2-3L minimum every day...


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OfflineLocus
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: matts]
    #2796191 - 06/15/04 09:17 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Of coarse things like these can be poisons at high doses. But we don't go around saying they're poisons. Just state that at a certain dosage it's a poison and that below that it is not, or however. But according to that definition you would have state the dose to actually be correct. You don't go around saying don't drink the water because it's poison do you?


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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Offlineneuro
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: Legoulash]
    #2796627 - 06/15/04 11:09 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

>>5L thats it?? Iv drinkin that.. no problem.. I used to drink like 2-3L minimum every day...

All at once, not spread out during the day. Too much water all at once will cause your brain to swell and you'll die.

To clear all this up: The purpose of frogs venom even, if it contains 5-MeO-DMT, is to be a poison as a defense. Poison is relative no matter what we talk about, even when we talk about arsenic or cyanide. It's just that cyanide is always listed as a poison because that's always it's intended use. People will go on for days debating what is and what is not a poison, often based on preference (see Atropine/Anti-Cholinergic comments earlier in this thread).


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Offlinefr33dom
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: fr33dom]
    #2798692 - 06/16/04 12:43 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

you only need to smoke , 1 , 2 bowl with pipe ... after 5 to 10 min you get a little buzz (powdered wormwood). like your head spin and is fucktop


--------------------
-= Follow the white rabbit =-


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: neuro]
    #2798754 - 06/16/04 01:03 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

neuro said:
Anything is poison at the right dose.



O.K. then everything is a poison? I realize that too much of anything is bad, however that does not mean that everything is bad. Drinking excessive water is not what does it, it is flushing out all of your body's sodium and electrolytes. Somethings can be injested in normal amounts without experiencing toxic effects. You can tell a difference. Wormwood is known to have residual effects on your brain because the chemical actually builds up in your brain. There is a difference between these effects and those of other substances. To make a blanket statement that everything is a poison and that's that is dangerous because it encourages people to look at all chemicals as being realitively equal in their degrees of danger. To make a compairison, it would be like saying well when you take Datura it is a poison, but fuck it everything is a poison. This is a much more extreme statement. I am not saying that wormwood and Datura are even in the same catagory, but I think that there is a similar element of "you need to be fucking carefull with this" that such ideas nullify. Furthermore I feel that seeing all psychoactive principals in such a light is a byproduct of scientific opinions not entirely based on fact. It is like mainstream science's drive to nullify any notion of "magic" towards existence; which is a reactionary drive spawned from 1000's of years of superstition. Something which seems to try to reduce the world to something dead and mechanical without seeing the inherit mystery of it all. Our idea of seeing things which alter our minds as poison comes from our culture's fixiation with alcohol and distrust of altered states of conciousness. But I guess that's just my not so humble opinion. I am sorry for starting an argument, but I am not.
-peace (no malice towards you guys intended)


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlineneuro
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2799459 - 06/16/04 04:22 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

>>O.K. then everything is a poison? I realize that too much of anything is bad, however that does not mean that everything is bad.

Whoever said anything about being bad? Poisons don't imply good or bad. People do. There are many assumptions being made in this argument about poisons which is causing such a ruckus. But yes anything is a poison at the right dose.


>>Drinking excessive water is not what does it, it is flushing out all of your body's sodium and electrolytes.

That's only part of it, Brain swelling is what get syou first. If anyone has some genetic impervosity to overswelling of the brain, then yes dilution of the blood's electrolytes and pH will cause death. A poison doesn't have to be a substance that acts directly. Infact most substances don't act directly. They touch a receptor or cause a reaction of events that ultimately lead to death.


>>Somethings can be injested in normal amounts without experiencing toxic effects.

I never said it couldn't. I said the right dose, never once have i spoke about "normal" doses. But yes you are obviously correct in your statement.

>>Wormwood is known to have residual effects on your brain because the chemical actually builds up in your brain.

Any medical literature i've read does not speak about cumulation. Thujone is not lead or mercury. Thujone can be broken down, and it's toxic effects come from the actions on the brain, like dissociatives causing onley's lesions. If you have contradicting literature that states thujone has a cumulation effect in that it lingers in the body i'd be very much interested in seeing it as i haven't encountered this in the medical literature.

>>To make a blanket statement that everything is a poison and that's that is dangerous because it encourages people to look at all chemicals as being realitively equal in their degrees of danger.

I'll agree blanket statements are generally bad, but i included the modifier at the right dose. I certainly don't think that statement encourages people to look at substances as having equal degrees of danger, and infact i think we all know that substances do not have equal degrees of danger. Again this returns to the modifier at the right dose. The problem here is that people have implicit assumptions about poisons, again you've mentioned good or bad.

Poison: A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.

P1: Water causes harm and/or death at 5L within one hour
P2: A poison is anything that causes injury, harm, or death by chemicals.
C: Water is a poison when ingested at 5L within one hour.

I'll stress time and time again poison is a very subjective word and there's all kinds of assumptions being thrown around here that is making this discussion rather unclear and showing the differences of opinions.

>>.To make a compairison, it would be like saying well when you take Datura it is a poison, but fuck it everything is a poison.

I think it would be absolutely stupid to say something like that. Again I think you're making an assumption (or a stupid decision) that i definitely am not making. Datura is a poison when you take too much of it, which is why we stress being careful with anti-cholinergics. Never should anyone say "but fuck it everything is a poison" because i stated everything is a poison at the right dose. That kind of attitude is absolutely crazy to me. You can take a little bit of atropine and be just fine, infact it's used as a medicine too.

>>I am not saying that wormwood and Datura are even in the same catagory, but I think that there is a similar element of "you need to be fucking carefull with this" that such ideas nullify.

My statement didn't nullify it for me or others i've talked to, they seemed to have understood what was meant by it, again modifer of at the right dose.

>>Furthermore I feel that seeing all psychoactive principals in such a light is a byproduct of scientific opinions not entirely based on fact. It is like mainstream science's drive to nullify any notion of "magic" towards existence; which is a reactionary drive spawned from 1000's of years of superstition. Something which seems to try to reduce the world to something dead and mechanical without seeing the inherit mystery of it all.

That's just your opinion, others will vehemently debate you on those points.


>>Our idea of seeing things which alter our minds as poison comes from our culture's fixiation with alcohol and distrust of altered states of conciousness.

Not me, and others, the idea of a poison presented in this thread comes from the definition of what a poison is. Here again there are underlying assumptions or presuppositions that need to be explained.

>>But I guess that's just my not so humble opinion. I am sorry for starting an argument, but I am not.

You're opinion is fine and deserved unto you. No need to be sorry for starting an argument, i'll again think you have some preconceived notions of what an argument is. Argumentation by a classical philosophical definition contains no malice/spite or hate. Argumentation is just a string of premises that lead to a conclusion. And as i've seen it here, we've all just been debating so thus we've been arguing (but not like a gf/bf argue or people who dislike eachother) i consider this far more intellectual and healthier than that. Again i'll fall back on the classical philosophical defnition of argument:

A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.

A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.


no where do those definitions contain quarrel dispute or any negative connotations to them.  My clarification of argument stems from your premise:
Quote:


Our idea of seeing things which alter our minds as poison comes from our culture's fixiation with alcohol and distrust of altered states of conciousness.




It seems you're also influenced by mainstream society that considers an argument a negative connotation.  :wink:


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Invisiblebaltazar
Quiet dreamer

Registered: 02/23/04
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: neuro]
    #2810546 - 06/20/04 07:11 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)


Jesus christ ! I was walking around in my neighbourhood and i saw a fucking big bush of wormwood , and its in a park about 200 meters from my house ...

I think it doens't belong to anyone there , so ill just go there one night and cut some stuff :wink: I found some wormwood in my cousin's vineyard ... I realy didn't notice before that there was so much wormwood here in my place ...

One more question , can i dry wormwood in the oven or microwave , or is the higher temperature going to destroy active ingridients ?


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: WORMWOOD [Re: neuro]
    #2814687 - 06/21/04 06:38 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

neuro said:
It seems you're also influenced by mainstream society that considers an argument a negative connotation.  :wink:




I just was trying to keep it to a debate and not a flaming type of thing. You are right that you didn't ever imply that poison=bad that was my fault for making assumptions. I can not find where I found it before, but I remember reading about wormwood having a reverse tolerance and that it could be poisonous if too much built up. I have to go to work now but I'll look again later.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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