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TheConfluence
Stranger



Registered: 12/13/21
Posts: 157
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Breeding Question
#27615838 - 01/12/22 06:12 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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You may find it helpful to know I have a degree in a semi related field of science so I respond really well to terms like, "haploid" and "eukaryotes"...
Anyway... Fell down the YouTube rabbit hole recently and discovered Gary from fresh from the farm fungi (love him) and he has this spectacular video series on breeding a full permutation of the particular genetics he was working with.
My level of understanding post facto... More often than not spores will only contain haploid genetics and any kind of flesh be it fruit or in some cases the mycelium itself will be a full genetic set or "diploid". The fruit from the mated "diploid" mycelium can then potentially produce its own unique spores which could potentially be haploid but it is my understanding that isolation of haploid cells at this stage is painstaking.
I Honestly feel as though I have a decent grasp on the breeding fundamentals...
But what I am hung up on now is...
Where are the lines of division from species to species particularly with psilocybin mushrooms? Will a Koh Samui breed with a blue meanie? Will a Burmese penis envy breed with a common penis envy?
Did I miss an older thread on this topic. I'm sorry if I did.
I ran a full Agar to Agar genetic permutation on the 4 sets of genetics I have... [Blue meanie, Koh Samui, penis envy, and it's Burmese cousin]. I am hoping to learn a lot from this silly little test run, but also I am only expecting compatibility between the two penises...
Does anyone out there have any experience with selective breeding through approximately this method?
-------------------- When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. Philip K. Dick Lies, Inc. (1984)
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Baba Yaga
Psychedelic Minion

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 4,241
Loc: On Break Vacation
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All psilocybe cubensis are able to form crosses.
Check out this thread if you haven't already
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26254384#26254384
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TheConfluence
Stranger



Registered: 12/13/21
Posts: 157
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Re: Breeding Question [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27620644 - 01/16/22 07:19 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank You! I Will.
-------------------- When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. Philip K. Dick Lies, Inc. (1984)
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King0fthajuice
Colors


Registered: 06/28/17
Posts: 325
Loc: Wild Like Volusia in the 80s
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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I'm liking this, hopefully more people come to the mothership. Invite your friends and family to join The Shroomery
Okay so let me give you my layman's understanding of all this, and I don't have a degree but I've done cocaine with a dentist.
Baba Yaga hit it on the head with, " all Psilocybe cubensis can form crosses with one another."
Now you listed off an array of different names . [Blue meanie, Koh Samui, penis envy, and it's Burmese cousin] and I have to do this every time because it just irks me!
Blue Meanies, ime we always called Panaeolus Cyanescens "Blue Meanies". I'm not sure which asshole thought it was a good idea to call a Cube var blue meanie it's whatever it's just idk lol, I'm stoned and the Blue Meanies I know hold a place in my heart.
...... Back on track ....
Okay so now that I've touched on all these points lets get back to the breeding - Now you CAN NOT cross a Panaeolus Cyanescens with a Psilocybe Cubensis never, not in a million years. That's like a Gorilla and a Koala Bear getting together and fucking.... not gonna happen not even if it was Harambe (R.I.P)
-------------------- I like rain Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right!
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,279
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 25 minutes, 37 seconds
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Making varietal hybrids within cubensis species is rather easy in practice, there is a lot of people that make it more complicated than need be.
You can simply mix spores of each and you will get crosses more often than not.
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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fossilshark
DouchebagDonny



Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 132
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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the issues come with proving you created a cross. If you cross 2 identical looking varietys there is no single offspring you will be able to pick out with traits that dont occur in both parents (GT x Mazatapec, JMF x GT ect).
lots of people breeding don't understand this and just assume anything they grow is the cross because it looks slightly unusual.
-------------------- LITFA LITFA LITFA
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,279
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 25 minutes, 37 seconds
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Quote:
fossilshark said: the issues come with proving you created a cross. If you cross 2 identical looking varietys there is no single offspring you will be able to pick out with traits that dont occur in both parents (GT x Mazatapec, JMF x GT ect).
lots of people breeding don't understand this and just assume anything they grow is the cross because it looks slightly unusual.
True, it's mostly pointless to cross two similar looking cubensis anyway, though. When the whole point is to create something unique looking.
Usually penis envy crossed to regular cubes, albinos, etc. Something that will be visibly noticable in the cross.
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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joze



Registered: 11/10/20
Posts: 1,056
Loc: PNW
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Quote:
fossilshark said: the issues come with proving you created a cross. If you cross 2 identical looking varietys there is no single offspring you will be able to pick out with traits that dont occur in both parents (GT x Mazatapec, JMF x GT ect).
lots of people breeding don't understand this and just assume anything they grow is the cross because it looks slightly unusual.
And that's the benefit of first isolating monokaryons. You can pretty easily determine if you've truly got a monokaryotic culture, and from there it's easy to cross it with another monokaryon and prove they formed a dikaryon.
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  Important Links. Be kind to others.
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TheConfluence
Stranger



Registered: 12/13/21
Posts: 157
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Re: Breeding Question [Re: joze]
#27648463 - 02/06/22 03:54 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dear King... You paint a pretty silly picture there but I appreciate it. My initial assumption was on the order of *they are just mostly marketing names* and mostly do just look like cubes. Its good information to look into more for myself and I plan to thanks.
Dear Eclipse... I have heard of this tech but in spore poor here at the moment. Additionally I've been watching a lot of southwest spore videos on YouTube as of late. I really like the simplicity of the idea of fully enveloping a grain spawn and then explaining that out via grain to grain and incorporating multiple haploid mycelium into those expanses. Tldr I get a lot of icky agar plates... Still learning about peroxide.
So here is what king mentioned for those joining in playing out on agar... The culture on the edge is a "blue meanie" I'll figure out the latin eventually and the one closest to the center is essentially a Thai cube and they are in the process today of rejecting one another. Sorry for the condensation. They are prettier later in the evening.

I'll get a better picture for education sake in about two days with less condensation
-------------------- When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. Philip K. Dick Lies, Inc. (1984)
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TheConfluence
Stranger



Registered: 12/13/21
Posts: 157
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Re: Breeding Question [Re: joze]
#27648809 - 02/06/22 08:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you do this via just a microscope and the spore?
-------------------- When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. Philip K. Dick Lies, Inc. (1984)
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TheConfluence
Stranger



Registered: 12/13/21
Posts: 157
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I promised better pictures.
You can very clearly seem the ease at which the two cubes mated and the very clear rejection of the psilocybe cyanescens on the outer rim of the plates.

-------------------- When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. Philip K. Dick Lies, Inc. (1984)
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TheConfluence
Stranger



Registered: 12/13/21
Posts: 157
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Updated with better breeding plates
-------------------- When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. Philip K. Dick Lies, Inc. (1984)
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AbuSharka
Sheikh


Registered: 11/19/21
Posts: 65
Loc: Middle East
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Eclipse3130 said: Making varietal hybrids within cubensis species is rather easy in practice, there is a lot of people that make it more complicated than need be.
You can simply mix spores of each and you will get crosses more often than not.
Did you done that?
I wanna give a try mix them in sterile water drop to agar for test if clean and grow them to see if get success with breeding? true success means they produce spores right?
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