|
SamuraiJACsr
Mighty Shroomancer



Registered: 05/22/22
Posts: 171
Loc: Hell City, Hell
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28049769 - 11/13/22 10:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
|
|
So the SAB is for the agar spore printing and setting up grain bags/jars for grainspawn, then you mix it up with the substrate in the open air? Why? Wouldn't keeping it all as sterile as possible be key? Why is the humidity gauge not necessarily needed? I have a thermometer with a humid readout on it. It's yhe thermometer needed then?
-------------------- Respectfully Yours, Samurai Action-JACson Coolguy Señior, III, esquire Clean Spawn Checklist PF Tek Done Right BOD's Easy AF Library
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SamuraiJACsr] 1
#28049846 - 11/13/22 11:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
|
|
This goes outside the purview of this post however I will summarize;
Culture and spawn production is the practice of single organism propagation in an encapsulated sterile environment like petri dishes, bags/jars, etc. These environments must remain free of any competition from bacteria or molds because these organisms will out compete the mycelial colony when grown in what is essentially an ecological vacuum.
Highly nutritious media like agar, hydrated cereal grains, or nutrient broth will provide the perfect environment for these fast growing/multiplying competitors to outpace the comparatively slow fungi. Once the fungal colony has completely colonized grains their evolutionary defense systems prevent competition from getting a foothold, this is why we wait for grains to be fully colonized before spawning to a bulk substrate.
Once colonized there's no need for grains to maintain sterility and can be spawned in open air, this is not true for liquid media broth like liquid culture due to the nature of that media; the same goes for plate cultures which are used to inoculate other sterile media.
The colonized grain represents the final stage of sterile culture work, this is why clean spawn is so important. Spawning fully colonized grain in flow or in a still air environment is pointless because the mycelium has already won the battle, any contamination post spawnimg will be either due to contaminated spawn or cross contaminated substrate from introducing non sterile nutrient dense material like starches from grain prep buckets, etc.
99% of actual cultivation is done pre spawn, once you spawn to bulk substrate the outcome is essentially out of your hands but for a few exceptions like providing and maintaining the appropriate environment, but this only makes up for 1% of the effort imo.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (11/14/22 12:00 AM)
|
SamuraiJACsr
Mighty Shroomancer



Registered: 05/22/22
Posts: 171
Loc: Hell City, Hell
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28057341 - 11/17/22 11:39 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
|
|
That makes so much sense. So then the coco coir and verm are naturally resistant to contam and so open air mixing in a clean container is okay? I understand now. So why would I have such a problem with green trich after showing to bulk? Is it already in my grow at that point and just unseen to my beginner eyes?
I just want to thank you for all your hard work and explanations p9hu7. You are truly a gentleman and a true mycologist. This whole thing has encouraged me to make a SAB that's almost done. I just need to seal around the doors to stop air flow. I will post pictures once complete. But it's because of people like you that I haven't gotten discouraged and given up. Thank you for your time and all this free advice and information. Even if it is out of the Pervue of the thread. You are so gentlemanly to all these folks calling you elitist and crap. I get where they is then come from BEFORE they state that crap, even if they are wrong but they should listen to you. What you share is sound science. Sure other things work but even 1% contam becomes a crazy amount when exponentially added in larger and larger sizes. Think if doctors accepted 1% of all surgery patients dying from infection. It would be crazy. We have to be able to get over ourselves at times and admit we are wrong in the face of scientific facts. It's not like your bashing on anyone but simply giving facts. You could be really rude about it but you're not.
So cheers to you, good sir. You're a gentleman and a scholar. A fine judge of horses and whiskey. Or so the saying goes.
-------------------- Respectfully Yours, Samurai Action-JACson Coolguy Señior, III, esquire Clean Spawn Checklist PF Tek Done Right BOD's Easy AF Library
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SamuraiJACsr]
#28057543 - 11/18/22 06:03 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Well that was quite the endorsement, thanks, I'm glad that I've been able to help you along the way.
Quote:
SamuraiJACsr said: So why would I have such a problem with green trich after showing to bulk? Is it already in my grow at that point and just unseen to my beginner eyes?
Your issue will either be compromised spawn or you've inadvertently cross contaminated your substrate with unsterilized starches left over from grain prep, etc.
Try here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27187543/fpart/1/vc/1
|
partiallywhole
Stranger

Registered: 01/20/20
Posts: 52
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28075700 - 11/30/22 09:06 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
|
jaycrayzy
Xombie Boy


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 73
Loc: Under the bed
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: partiallywhole]
#28082299 - 12/03/22 10:11 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Hey so I've been looking for a vendor that sells 24" x 24" x 11 1/2"(or 5 7/8") hepa filters for my FFU that I plan to convert into a laminar flow cabinet. Amazon, ebay, and everywhere else I look has them but the reviews make me think they are recycled damaged filters that were sold to some other company. That company then sends the buyer a hunk of dented aluminum with torn filters.
In fact 90% of the filters I found that will work all had reviews stating that the customer received a damaged filter.
Can anyone here point me in the right direction. Maybe a novatek preferred vendor?
Another question I have is if anyone has experience using one of the 5 7/8" thick filters and achieved laminar flow. If so, what's the verdict? I would imagine that it might be a little more finicky to dial in to the correct flow rate. A skinny filter would be perfect because then I won't have to upgrade the fan already installed in my FFU.
--------------------
Jay Kay the Xombie
|
RoscoeReturns
Crotchety chode man



Registered: 02/12/18
Posts: 1,738
Loc: State of Confusion
Last seen: 11 hours, 12 minutes
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jaycrayzy] 2
#28082662 - 12/04/22 08:24 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Flanders/AAF make any kind of HEPA you need. If you are near any major city you should be able to find a distributor. Most LF benches and ffu’s use 3” deep mini pleat filters, or 5 7/8” conventional pleat with aluminum separators. There is no reason to use an 11 1/2” deep filter for laminar flow. That said, size is not the only issue when it comes to filters. You need to look at the filter currently in your FFU and get one rated at a similar static pressure @ similar airflow. Otherwise, regardless of size, your current fan may not give you the results you’re looking for.
|
jaycrayzy
Xombie Boy


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 73
Loc: Under the bed
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: RoscoeReturns]
#28082701 - 12/04/22 09:09 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RoscoeReturns said: Flanders/AAF make any kind of HEPA you need. If you are near any major city you should be able to find a distributor. Most LF benches and ffu’s use 3” deep mini pleat filters, or 5 7/8” conventional pleat with aluminum separators. There is no reason to use an 11 1/2” deep filter for laminar flow. That said, size is not the only issue when it comes to filters. You need to look at the filter currently in your FFU and get one rated at a similar static pressure @ similar airflow. Otherwise, regardless of size, your current fan may not give you the results you’re looking for.
I'm pretty sure the reason that almost everyone who built their own laminar flow cabinet gets the 12" thick filters is because the filter needs to have enough resistance to build the right amount of pressure in the plenum so that the airflow has the greatest velocity in the center of the filter. Which is required to achieve laminar flow... And as I said my plan was to originally get a new blower as well because I know mine won't work if the static pressure is 1.0. I'm pretty sure a 5 7/8" filter will work with the blower installed though. I've seen how important it is to order one of these filters from a reputable distributor so I might as well get the filter that has the highest review ratings. Which I'm pretty sure is Novatek. Anyway thanks I'll see if I can find a local distributor.
--------------------
Jay Kay the Xombie
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jaycrayzy] 1
#28082706 - 12/04/22 09:15 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
My filter was 5 7/8, I believe. Check my build linked in the flowhood math template.
|
sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 2
#28083391 - 12/04/22 03:04 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
12" thick filters are not preferred at all, they are half the static pressure of the 5-7/8" (at the same airflow/speed) because there is twice as much surface area in the "W" shaped accordion fold that makes up the filter...More surface area equals less resistance.
The reason many used them is because they are much more commonly available because they are used in air scrubber filters and such. You can (or used to be able to) find 12" thick 24x24 filters for around $100 or so on amazon etc pretty easily because they are very common for air scrubbers used in commercial applications.
You may read the specs and see that 1.0" static pressure but you are missing the tested speed or CFM which is very high, they are designed for high volume (i.e. speed) filtration. The pressure drop of a filter changes as the airflow changes. More airflow more pressure. See my signature link.
Edited by sandman420 (12/04/22 03:17 PM)
|
M.Boomerton
Stranger



Registered: 11/13/22
Posts: 37
Last seen: 1 year, 11 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: sandman420]
#28084951 - 12/05/22 04:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
hello all! I just started fruiting this and Im using the "Max Yield Bin" for the 1st time as well. Everything seems good so far but I was wondering, could it hurt or possibly hinder any growth by placing a 1/4 tube thru one of the small holes thats connected to a aquarium air pump? Would it help in fruiting or am I wasting time and possibly messing up the air flow?
Edited by M.Boomerton (12/05/22 04:39 PM)
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: M.Boomerton] 2
#28085122 - 12/05/22 06:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Just leave the tub alone, tubing and pumps are a waste of time.
|
shelaker
shelaker
Registered: 05/09/13
Posts: 10
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28092491 - 12/10/22 08:32 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
This is great
|
OlSk00lFarmer
Grower



Registered: 08/18/22
Posts: 222
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28094185 - 12/12/22 05:32 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The fan hooked upto the sab absolutely killed me. I honestly laughed for about half an hour. My wife thought i was going crazy. Ive seen some of those fans hooked upto a cheap air furnace filter and thought that was funny. The fan hooked to a sab was the funniest. SAB - Still Air Box the acronym explains it all.
Kill me now im still laughing.
-------------------- LAGM 2.023 Man, who gave that Shroomery? Who taught him how that works? Someone tell him when he mentions shit do research first!
|
Twohi4u
Stranger


Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: OlSk00lFarmer] 1
#28096438 - 12/13/22 06:45 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
as a newbie.. pretty helpful.. thanks!
|
Philberto
Actual tosspot
Registered: 08/31/22
Posts: 255
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Twohi4u]
#28097133 - 12/14/22 11:15 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
How do you determine if your flow is indeed laminar?
Is there a way to test?
|
ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs *DELETED* [Re: Philberto]
#28097149 - 12/14/22 11:37 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by ruawakeyet
Reason for deletion: Because I want to.
Edited by ruawakeyet (12/14/22 11:38 AM)
|
Philberto
Actual tosspot
Registered: 08/31/22
Posts: 255
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#28097191 - 12/14/22 12:27 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
That seems straight forward. Thank you
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Philberto]
#28097282 - 12/14/22 01:58 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Philberto said: How do you determine if your flow is indeed laminar?
Is there a way to test?
You will know if it's laminar by purchasing the correct type of filter and then matching it's dimensions and resistance to a blower that is suitable.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26679345
|
Drmbanana
Medical



Registered: 12/19/22
Posts: 117
Loc: PNW
|
Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28104824 - 12/19/22 12:59 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Box fan flow hood working for me so far:
Since I had a box fan and found a k&n merv 11 filter. I just taped it on and tested 24 ketchup cups sitting out for at least 1 min in front of air flow. I made a 7.5lme, pressure sterilized, and poured. 1 out of 24 as some contam. I have not tried the room without filtered air, so maybe the room is clean to begin with. It is a laundry room, with a small overhead fan that I also have on to keep air flowing that direction. 70% alcohol sterilize all surfaces, but not the inside of the cups.
Maybe I am just lucky, but it seems to work for me.

-------------------- Let food be they medicine and medicine be thy food…
|
|