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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #28021839 - 10/28/22 05:37 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I know a lot of things have evolved over years. I have changed things over the years as well. However the boxfan flowhood is not something I've been using for a long time. I only adopted this method in the past couple months, so it's not about sticking to old methods for me. I'm open to all sorts new ideas and techniques

I was actually quite a bit resistant to it at first, but when I saw my friend running it with no issues I thought I'd give it a try


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
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Edited by LiquidGlass (10/28/22 05:42 PM)

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: LiquidGlass] * 2
    #28021850 - 10/28/22 05:46 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

At the risk of sounding partisan and authoritarian at the same time, I’d like to see less rhetoric in this thread. AFAIK the OP is 💯 solid information and while claims of using turbulence spaceship boxes are not banned speech on this board, we’re straying into thread jacking here. Let’s keep this on topic.

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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #28021859 - 10/28/22 05:53 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
turbulence spaceship boxes




😄Thats awesome! I'm gonna call it that from now on


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey

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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs *DELETED* [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #28021905 - 10/28/22 06:29 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by ruawakeyet

Reason for deletion: Because I want to.

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OfflineBrewtality
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: ruawakeyet] * 7
    #28022118 - 10/28/22 09:19 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I have some data to add to this thread. Anecdotes tend to rub me the wrong way.

I am not sure of the tek responsible for proper construction of a "Blowhood", but I went to Homie Depot and picked up the finest ingredients available on the shelf. Please feel free to ridicule me for my noobness.

1 Lasko (Made in the USA) 20" box fan.
1 Honeywell 20"x20"x1" Elite Allergen Air Filter - FPR10
Roll of tape.

A quick run through the Gargler told me FPR10 is roughly equal to MERV13.

I ran a few tests using a Lighthouse Solair 3100 Particle Counter and these are the results.

This strictly evaluates the potential for contamination based on the number of particles in the air. Organisms that contaminate don't have feet, they don't walk into your plates, they ride on particulate.

The testing and method:
The samples were collected 12" from the filter face.
Each location was sampled 5 times and the results were averaged.
The sample duration was 1 minute.
The sample size was equal to 1 cubic foot of air.
All values represent particles 0.5 microns and larger.

Background Sample: Room Air Sample, no fan running (Aka Baseline)
High: 299,691
Low: 296,907
Average: 298,246 particles per cubic ft

Fan Sample: - Fan running on high with no filter
High: 284,209
Low: 260,840
Average: 270,921 particles per cubic ft

Fan with Filter: Speed setting 3 (High) with Filter attached.(Avg velocity 180 ft/min)
High: 61,895
Low: 29,653
Average: 39,734 particles per cubic ft

Fan with Filter: Speed setting 1 (Low) with filter attached. (Avg velocity 79 ft/min)
High: 20,190
Low: 18,577
Average: 19,571 particles per cubic ft

Chinese FFU Imported and marketed to the mushroom farmer: Speed Setting 3 (Average velocity 63ft/min)
High: 0
Low: 0
Average: 0 particles per cubic ft

The data above shows that using the method I have outlined the box fan filter fails to adequately reduce the particulate load when compared to a proper HEPA filter. You can decide if your time and money are worth the risks.

Additional info to consider: I attempted to use this method to test my Still Air Box. The nature of this test (vacuuming air through a tube) negates the primary function of the SAB, so I didn't include the results for comparison. Let me know if you think it should be added.

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Brewtality] * 1
    #28022127 - 10/28/22 09:25 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I will certainly add this to the OP, excellent work; thank-you very much for the contribution. Top notch data.

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: LiquidGlass] * 2
    #28022531 - 10/29/22 08:54 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
... However the boxfan flowhood is not something I've been using for a long time. I only adopted this method in the past couple months, so it's not about sticking to old methods for me.




This matter is now closed. Success with too small of a sample size will produce false positives. Failure will accrue over time, the materials are not capable of particle filtration nor laminar flow. The hard data and theory are complimentary and irrefutable.

It stands to reason that if we make the effort to produce sterile media then we should maintain that sterility by employing the appropriate techniques and equipment. We have 2 options at our disposal:

1. Laminar flow;
2. Still air. 

The OP clearly explains the why and how, we now have the further benefit of particle measurements to accompany that information. Particles and the turbulence that carries them produce contamination.

Quote:

Bertrand Russel said:
“You may reasonably expect a man to walk a tightrope safely for ten minutes; it would be unreasonable to do so without accident for two hundred years.”





The same applies to spawn production.

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 5
    #28022556 - 10/29/22 09:22 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

As the volume of spawn production increases so to do the vectors.

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OfflineSamuraiJACsr
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: primelines]
    #28033821 - 11/05/22 05:39 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Super badass explanations. This is why my high tech hepa fan filtered FC didn't work out as well as my new monotub with holes below the handles.

That being said i DID add a led light to the top of the monotub as well as a temp/humidity gage hot glued to the lid to monitor the thing. So glad I didn't add a fan to it.

So is it my understanding that you're saying I don't need to open up the monotub for FAE because there's holes on the black bottom right above the substrate with filters over them as well as big holes with filters on the top edges of the clear lid? Just ensure it's proper humidity and spray only if needed?

How do I setup my monotub in a SAB since it's so big? Make a big SAB?


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Samurai Action-JACson Coolguy Señior, III, esquire

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SamuraiJACsr]
    #28033904 - 11/05/22 07:15 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

If you have holes in your tub then you don't need to do anything else to the tub for fresh air exchange; the humidity sensor is unnecessary but it won't hurt anything.

Still air boxes are employed for sterile work, not for use with mono-tubs. Tubs are spawned in open air.

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Offlinen3oX
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 2
    #28043091 - 11/10/22 02:15 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I'm so glad I didnt listen to my friend telling me to build a boxfan flowhood. It just didn't seem right, thanks for explaining why.

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InvisiblePsillySeeEms
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: n3oX]
    #28049000 - 11/13/22 02:45 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)




So what do you guys think of this low tech design? Not with a turbulent makeshift storage bin hood attached, like other destop hepa flow hood designs I've seen, but instead using a dry clean bag as the hood like the guy in the video does.

Glad it hasn't been mentioned here, because I am currently working on a similar design, using 72" dry clean garment bags, and the same size hepa filters. Should be ready to test soon as I get the bags, and built my own housing for the filter, instead of using the holmes aer1 desktop unit mentioned.

I've seen reports with side by side agar dish tests on other sites I won't mention, and no contams.. but only when done inside the flow bag with this method. Hearing many other comments that it works great too.

Using the dry clean bags as the hood (which shrinks or expands in size accordingly to the flow) makes it impossible to have turbulence afaik. You  will have true laminar flow inside the bag, no matter what CFMs the fan is blowing through the HEPA filter at (just not too much, or too little..), right?

Anyway, I haven't seen anyone that says it didn't work yet, but like to hear your guys critique.

I'm a total newb, but I really don't wanna mess around with a SAB, when its looking like anyone can simply tape a clear dry clean bag to a super affordable portable hepa filter unit, and have a flow hood that apparently works better than anything else i've seen, especially some of the contraptions mentioned in this thread.

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: PsillySeeEms]
    #28049010 - 11/13/22 02:50 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

It's a shmuv box, I personally don't recommend anything that isn't still air or laminar flow as outlined in the op.

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InvisiblePsillySeeEms
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28049043 - 11/13/22 03:07 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Gotcha,Thanks!

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: PsillySeeEms]
    #28049116 - 11/13/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Any SAB will be better than some rando contraption; the simplicity and effectiveness of still air outweighs the risk associated with contraptions other than appropriate laminar flow cabinets.

There are no real shortcuts long-term.

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InvisiblePsillySeeEms
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28049188 - 11/13/22 04:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I dunno. Now that I know it's old tek called a shmuv box, and spent the last hour reading even more success stories (many from trusted cultivators here on this site, with even more ghetto looking trash bag setups than the video I posted above, lol), i'm even more inclined to finish my random build. 

Also, to go ahead and build a nice SAB as well :wink:

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: PsillySeeEms] * 1
    #28049209 - 11/13/22 04:23 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Have at er. Noobs never can accept the simplicity.

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InvisiblePsillySeeEms
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28049217 - 11/13/22 04:26 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'm trying, but its hard. I must complicate things! Your right though. Wish me luck! :thumbup:

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: PsillySeeEms] * 1
    #28049226 - 11/13/22 04:27 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Good luck man, having fun is the name of the game.

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InvisiblePsillySeeEms
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28049269 - 11/13/22 04:49 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

My man, appreciate it!

I just know as soon as the bag fills up with air, i'm gonna light up like an unspoiled kid getting a big bouncy house for their birthday.

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