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Naturalimmunity
Stranger

Registered: 05/23/23
Posts: 16
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SirPsycho]
#28344266 - 06/02/23 10:00 AM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said: www.google.com
I've already tried that. Anyways do you think these are true laminar flow?
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Naturalimmunity]
#28344270 - 06/02/23 10:04 AM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Sure
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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Yuggoth
Mi-Go Cultivator



Registered: 03/04/23
Posts: 493
Loc: Lost Carcosa
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SirPsycho]
#28344303 - 06/02/23 10:36 AM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said: You're missing the point.
Fan filter units are cheap.
When I have looked at those Chinese units, shipping has totally killed the deal -- like a $200 FFU with $500 shipping.
The cheapest way I'm aware of to get a properly rated 2x2 FFU is the one for ~$500 on Amazon, with free shipping if you have Prime. Sometimes it goes on sale for 10% off so it might be $500 including tax. It is the one SPG uses.
If there's a dramatically cheaper option I wanna know about it! If I could get a 2x2 FFU for $200 delivered I'd order it today.
-------------------- We have not succeeded in answering all our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things. -- Earl C. Kelley Things I really wish I knew when I started // Vacuum sealer discussion thread // Shroomery gif zoo
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Naturalimmunity
Stranger

Registered: 05/23/23
Posts: 16
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Yuggoth]
#28344844 - 06/02/23 07:15 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yuggoth said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said: You're missing the point.
Fan filter units are cheap.
When I have looked at those Chinese units, shipping has totally killed the deal -- like a $200 FFU with $500 shipping.
The cheapest way I'm aware of to get a properly rated 2x2 FFU is the one for ~$500 on Amazon, with free shipping if you have Prime. Sometimes it goes on sale for 10% off so it might be $500 including tax. It is the one SPG uses.
If there's a dramatically cheaper option I wanna know about it! If I could get a 2x2 FFU for $200 delivered I'd order it today.
Do you think these units are legit? I've seen countless posts across the web saying that the bonsai flow hood style hoods aren't true laminar flow hoods either(horizontal flow),but nobody ever can explain why?(not talking about you,but maybe you can answer me why)
I have a 8" inline fan 710 cfm & am wondering how I'm supposed to design the box in a standard wooden horizontal flow hood? Am I supposed to create a backstop to deflect flow if I want true laminar flow?(asking everyone reading this)
Would you use the fan I have which is high quality or would you buy 1 of those vertical units for under 400$? heres the fan https://www.high-gradehydro.com/products/hyper-fan-8-in-digital-mixed-flow-fan-710-cfm fig 6 in this pic is what I'm wondering I should make in a wooden flowhood.

Edited by Naturalimmunity (06/02/23 07:19 PM)
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ruawakeyet

Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Naturalimmunity]
#28344970 - 06/02/23 08:44 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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FFUs are legit, but I wouldn't use one vertically. Get one big enough to work in front of, and don't forget to leave some space above your tallest jar(s), as well as on both sides. For example, mine is only large enough for me to have one grain jar, and one agar plate side by side at a time. That is leaving around 4 inches on either side and around 5 inches above a quart jar. That's really all I need for my scale of hobby.
The cabinet part is really not necessary for a horizontal FFU/flowhood. You can build a flowhood yourself, there are threads on designing one and matching the fan size to the filter, but this really isn't the thread for discussing that.
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Naturalimmunity
Stranger

Registered: 05/23/23
Posts: 16
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: ruawakeyet]
#28345004 - 06/02/23 09:21 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
ruawakeyet said: FFUs are legit, but I wouldn't use one vertically. Get one big enough to work in front of, and don't forget to leave some space above your tallest jar(s), as well as on both sides. For example, mine is only large enough for me to have one grain jar, and one agar plate side by side at a time. That is leaving around 4 inches on either side and around 5 inches above a quart jar. That's really all I need for my scale of hobby.
The cabinet part is really not necessary for a horizontal FFU/flowhood. You can build a flowhood yourself, there are threads on designing one and matching the fan size to the filter, but this really isn't the thread for discussing that.
I've seen those threads & this thread is specifically about laminar flow & the difference between box fans, turbulent flow & laminar flow,so since I noticed this thread had very knowledgeable posters I figured this is best place to discuss what exactly makes certain hoods laminar flow as opposed to turbulent flow hoods & what better way than comparing exact models of filter blower units to make it clear once & for all what design is required to be considered laminar & what designs fail & cause contamination due to turbulent flow.
If I need to take this to another thread let me know op
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eclancy313
Strider

Registered: 05/10/23
Posts: 3
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Naturalimmunity]
#28345368 - 06/03/23 07:25 AM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Lovely write up. I do have a question though, I searched Fan filter units and google shows me different laminar flow hoods, why are some $30 like this and some $600? Will a $30 one work? It even says mycology and has an agar plate on it! Lol
-------------------- Iām sure I need help and Iām too hard on myself, but Iām trying.
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,900
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 9 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: eclancy313]
#28345378 - 06/03/23 07:35 AM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
eclancy313 said: Lovely write up. I do have a question though, I searched Fan filter units and google shows me different laminar flow hoods, why are some $30 like this and some $600? Will a $30 one work? It even says mycology and has an agar plate on it! Lol
"NOTE: THIS IS A COVER ONLY and NOT THE ACTUAL FLOW HOOD FILTER UNIT."
That's why it's 30 bucks
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PBJ710
Strangler


Registered: 07/05/19
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: eclancy313] 1
#28345386 - 06/03/23 07:39 AM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Read the details of what you are looking up. The $30 item you listed is an "optional cover and work surface" for their model 1 FFU - which is $450 to start with. I would expect to spend at a bare minimum $400-500 (delivered) for a decent 2x2 FFU with prefilter. $800 delivered would be the low end of 2x4 FFUs.
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thespacecadet
Astral Explorer


Registered: 06/03/23
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: PBJ710]
#28357272 - 06/12/23 03:43 PM (7 months, 12 days ago) |
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Certainly all good information!
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sprocket
G-strain



Registered: 04/24/23
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: PBJ710] 1
#28359172 - 06/14/23 02:25 AM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
PBJ710 said:

Read the details of what you are looking up. The $30 item you listed is an "optional cover and work surface" for their model 1 FFU - which is $450 to start with. I would expect to spend at a bare minimum $400-500 (delivered) for a decent 2x2 FFU with prefilter. $800 delivered would be the low end of 2x4 FFUs.
Like most things, you get what you pay for. I would like to run a ffu someday once my budget allows me to get one that is effective
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thebraintickler
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Registered: 06/16/23
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: sprocket]
#28362363 - 06/16/23 04:55 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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You can just go oldschool and light a bunch of candles around your workspace, or use burners if you have gas. This will heat and cause the airflow to go up and out of your workspace. It keeps the contamination down significantly, but not as good as a laminar flow hood might.
With laminar flow hoods you are looking for two things, you want a negative vacuum pulling on the air, and you want the airflow to be sterilized. This means you are generally using nanpore filters and a fan system blowing into the hood, with the airspace that allows the air to escape being smaller so that the airflow pushes potential airborne contamination out of the hood.
If you are really picky about potential contam and want to get all cell biologist on it use a 90% ethanol spray around the edges before and after you move anything in and out. It's excessive for most of this kind of fungal growth, though transferring to a liquid culture with something like PDB/TSB and then incubating at any elevated temperatures is going to require significant sterile technique, I find more so than when plating, as you can't discern the contam in liquid cultures necessarily.
Globe boxes are intended to be kept completely sterile with positive pressure flow. The gloves are attached to the box and anything in/out of the box goes through an exchange box where the sample container is further sterilized, UV is used a lot, but so would EtOH/IOH in combination. Once inside everything is considered sterile. This is overkill for things that aren't ebola.
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NFLProof
Sponge



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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: thebraintickler]
#28362379 - 06/16/23 05:12 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
thebraintickler said: You can just go oldschool and light a bunch of candles around your workspace, or use burners if you have gas. This will heat and cause the airflow to go up and out of your workspace. It keeps the contamination down significantly, but not as good as a laminar flow hood might.
Based on this.....couldn't I simply place a heating mat inside my SAB? Maybe turn on my gas oven and work in it?
-------------------- Yeah, yeah.
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CocaineBuffet
Stranger



Registered: 08/29/19
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: thebraintickler] 4
#28362537 - 06/16/23 08:15 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
thebraintickler said: You can just go oldschool and light a bunch of candles around your workspace, or use burners if you have gas. This will heat and cause the airflow to go up and out of your workspace. It keeps the contamination down significantly, but not as good as a laminar flow hood might.
With laminar flow hoods you are looking for two things, you want a negative vacuum pulling on the air, and you want the airflow to be sterilized. This means you are generally using nanpore filters and a fan system blowing into the hood, with the airspace that allows the air to escape being smaller so that the airflow pushes potential airborne contamination out of the hood.
If you are really picky about potential contam and want to get all cell biologist on it use a 90% ethanol spray around the edges before and after you move anything in and out. It's excessive for most of this kind of fungal growth, though transferring to a liquid culture with something like PDB/TSB and then incubating at any elevated temperatures is going to require significant sterile technique, I find more so than when plating, as you can't discern the contam in liquid cultures necessarily.
Globe boxes are intended to be kept completely sterile with positive pressure flow. The gloves are attached to the box and anything in/out of the box goes through an exchange box where the sample container is further sterilized, UV is used a lot, but so would EtOH/IOH in combination. Once inside everything is considered sterile. This is overkill for things that aren't ebola.
Yeah light candles and spray flammable chemicals while using a glove box. Totally not a recipe for disaster.
Don't listen to this bullshit.
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Pandaskis
Eating Bamboo



Registered: 03/14/23
Posts: 1,869
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: thebraintickler] 4
#28362748 - 06/16/23 10:45 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
thebraintickler said: You can just go oldschool and light a bunch of candles around your workspace, or use burners if you have gas. This will heat and cause the airflow to go up and out of your workspace. It keeps the contamination down significantly, but not as good as a laminar flow hood might.
With laminar flow hoods you are looking for two things, you want a negative vacuum pulling on the air, and you want the airflow to be sterilized. This means you are generally using nanpore filters and a fan system blowing into the hood, with the airspace that allows the air to escape being smaller so that the airflow pushes potential airborne contamination out of the hood.
If you are really picky about potential contam and want to get all cell biologist on it use a 90% ethanol spray around the edges before and after you move anything in and out. It's excessive for most of this kind of fungal growth, though transferring to a liquid culture with something like PDB/TSB and then incubating at any elevated temperatures is going to require significant sterile technique, I find more so than when plating, as you can't discern the contam in liquid cultures necessarily.
Globe boxes are intended to be kept completely sterile with positive pressure flow. The gloves are attached to the box and anything in/out of the box goes through an exchange box where the sample container is further sterilized, UV is used a lot, but so would EtOH/IOH in combination. Once inside everything is considered sterile. This is overkill for things that aren't ebola.
This post will be forever immortalized as your first post. Thats an L
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Pandaskis] 3
#28362956 - 06/17/23 06:34 AM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
You can just go oldschool and light a bunch of candles around your workspace...
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Imatryin
Stranger


Registered: 07/06/21
Posts: 410
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 2
#28364423 - 06/18/23 01:55 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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I look in on this thread mostly for amusement purposes only. I have high respect for the knowledge and experience of the TCs. I also have a background in biologic sciences and medicine. It makes some of these posts even more funny. Some of the wild ass claims, without any evidence, are comic relief. Thank you TCs and others with extensive experience for keeping me in the right direction.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Imatryin]
#28364447 - 06/18/23 02:22 PM (7 months, 6 days ago) |
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Guerrilla
Bumbaclart


Registered: 01/30/21
Posts: 3,170
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 2
#28369305 - 06/21/23 07:45 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Okay so I put this together today, the idea being that I can work on more than one side if I had say like dishes cooling on one section of the flow hood.
4 sided flow hood, I'm a genius right?
I'm 99.9% confident in it I just don't get the lighter at a perfect angle in some parts of the flow particularly the corners and the middle but it should work, my friend is using a similar setup and he rarely gets contam.
Just wanted to see if you could help me dial in my flow so that it's less patchy Stipe? Maybe I need an extra fan underneath too?

I don't know why you'd pay 1000 bucks for a filter unit when you can just build this
-------------------- Being pissed on does not make you a real man.
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Guerrilla] 1
#28369308 - 06/21/23 07:47 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Guerrilla said: Okay so I put this together today, the idea being that I can work on more than one side if I had say like dishes cooling on one section of the flow hood.
4 sided flow hood, I'm a genius right?
I'm 99.9% confident in it I just don't get the lighter at a perfect angle in some parts of the flow particularly the corners and the middle but it should work, my friend is using a similar setup and he rarely gets contam.
Just wanted to see if you could help me dial in my flow so that it's less patchy Stipe? Maybe I need an extra fan underneath too?

I don't know why you'd pay 1000 bucks for a filter unit when you can just build this 
Did the airport scanner thing fuck with the plate in your head?
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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