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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,900
Loc: Rent free in your head
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart]
#28322743 - 05/17/23 03:56 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
jungatheart said: I read in OP's post that UV lights are frowned upon but, what if a UV light that emits ozone is used to try to sterilize the SAB when not using it? An example is: I turn on the UV light for an hour after using the SAB to do my business and won't use it again for at least 24 hours which means the ozone reverts to ordinary air and not dangerous anymore. The UV and ozone are supposed to kill molds, spores and bacteria(?) so it seems this is a plus since the air moving in the SAB would be cleaner than outside air. I cover the arm holes when not using the box. Thoughts?
Did you actually read the OP?
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart] 1
#28322773 - 05/17/23 04:52 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
jungatheart said: air moving in the SAB
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Throwaway]
#28322879 - 05/17/23 07:40 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Throwaway said:
Quote:
jungatheart said: air moving in the SAB

Any movement in the SAB causes some air movement. STILL air box is a wish not a reality when in use. What I'm trying to do is assure that any air that DOES move is as clean as possible.
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,900
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 9 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart] 2
#28322935 - 05/17/23 08:28 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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I think your time would be better spent working on proper sterile technique.
Your movements don't cause air to move unless you're flailing about. Stick your arms in a tub full of water and slowly move around. See just how much disturbance you cause, now remember air is a lot less viscous and that disturbance will be much lower.
Beyond that we let the air settle so all the nasties fall to the bottom and we use a wet towel to ensure they stick to there. So the air is already "clean".
Did you read the parts of OP on UV and ozone?
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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart] 4
#28322937 - 05/17/23 08:31 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Keep in mind that as a noob there's a decent chance that you don't know what you don't know, and the people who do know are trying to let you know
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,900
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 9 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28322942 - 05/17/23 08:37 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Keep in mind that as a noob there's a decent chance that you don't know what you don't know
Rude

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Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SirPsycho]
#28323000 - 05/17/23 09:18 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said: I think your time would be better spent working on proper sterile technique.
Your movements don't cause air to move unless you're flailing about. Stick your arms in a tub full of water and slowly move around. See just how much disturbance you cause, now remember air is a lot less viscous and that disturbance will be much lower.
Beyond that we let the air settle so all the nasties fall to the bottom and we use a wet towel to ensure they stick to there. So the air is already "clean".
Did you read the parts of OP on UV and ozone?
I did. As I said in my post, all ozone is depleted by the time I use the SAB again.
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28323015 - 05/17/23 09:27 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Keep in mind that as a noob there's a decent chance that you don't know what you don't know, and the people who do know are trying to let you know 
I guess I don't understand this post. My original post asked for thoughts from people that did know more than me. If I knew all the answers, I wouldn't have asked the questions. Have I inadvertently broken some custom?
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SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,900
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 9 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart] 1
#28323024 - 05/17/23 09:34 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
jungatheart said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said: I think your time would be better spent working on proper sterile technique.
Your movements don't cause air to move unless you're flailing about. Stick your arms in a tub full of water and slowly move around. See just how much disturbance you cause, now remember air is a lot less viscous and that disturbance will be much lower.
Beyond that we let the air settle so all the nasties fall to the bottom and we use a wet towel to ensure they stick to there. So the air is already "clean".
Did you read the parts of OP on UV and ozone?
I did. As I said in my post, all ozone is depleted by the time I use the SAB again.
Did you notice the part where it says UV does not sterilize the air?
Beyond that you'd need to ensure that absolutely every surface is exposed to UV. This means no stacking and getting it under your containers/tools somehow. Then you put your non sterile hands in there and still have to rely on proper aseptic work practices anyway.
So just work on he proper aseptic work practices since that will still be deciding factor.
You can be pretty sloppy about everything else if you got those down. I don't use isopropyl or gloves or wipe my containers or any of that.
I wait for the air to settle wash my hands and arms throughly so nothing can fall off them and work carefully (although lately even this last part isn't true)
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
Edited by SirPsycho (05/17/23 11:31 AM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart] 1
#28323027 - 05/17/23 09:37 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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You read the OP, it states that UV and ozone are useless while listing the reasons why they're useless. The OP clearly states why still air or sterile laminar flow are superior to all other known techniques.
There's no customs, there's no rules regarding speech or forbidden topics. You received the appropriate answers. You're now armed with knowledge.
You can sterilize closed environments like jars or filtered myco bags (using steam and pressure, but not UV); you can't sterilize the atmosphere of your still air box. This was explained in sufficient detail in the OP.
Attempting to "sterilize" your SAB with UV is like attempting to create a clean room with an air purifier. It can't be done, it is impossible.
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SirPsycho]
#28323040 - 05/17/23 09:45 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
jungatheart said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said: I think your time would be better spent working on proper sterile technique.
Your movements don't cause air to move unless you're flailing about. Stick your arms in a tub full of water and slowly move around. See just how much disturbance you cause, now remember air is a lot less viscous and that disturbance will be much lower.
Beyond that we let the air settle so all the nasties fall to the bottom and we use a wet towel to ensure they stick to there. So the air is already "clean".
Did you read the parts of OP on UV and ozone?
I did. As I said in my post, all ozone is depleted by the time I use the SAB again.
Did you notice the part where it says UV does not sterilize the air?
Beyond that you'd need to ensure that absolutely every surface is exposed to UV. This means no stacking and getting it under your containers/tools somehow. Then you put your non sterile hands in there and still have to rely on proper aseptic work practices anyway.
So just work on he proper aseptic work practices since that will still be deciding factor.
You can be pretty sloppy about everything else if you got those down. I got use isopropyl or gloves or wipe my containers or any of that.
I wait for the air to settle wash my hands and arms throughly so nothing can fall off them and work carefully (although lately even this last part isn't true)
Yes I did read that but it does sanitize objects. I'm simply trying what we all are trying to do which is to do as much as possible to reduce contaminations. Every little bit helps. I have to say being new to this forum seems to be an invitation to be condescended to. Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I know nothing.
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28323043 - 05/17/23 09:48 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: You read the OP, it states that UV and ozone are useless while listing the reasons why they're useless. The OP clearly states why still air or sterile laminar flow are superior to all other known techniques.
There's no customs, there's no rules regarding speech or forbidden topics. You received the appropriate answers. You're now armed with knowledge.
You can sterilize closed environments like jars or filtered myco bags (using steam and pressure, but not UV); you can't sterilize the atmosphere of your still air box. This was explained in sufficient detail in the OP.
Attempting to "sterilize" your SAB with UV is like attempting to create a clean room with an air purifier. It can't be done, it is impossible.
Thanks for your help.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart] 1
#28323047 - 05/17/23 09:50 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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The moment you put your arms into the SAB, it becomes contaminated. To be completely honest, unless your SAB is hermetically sealed, it's contaminated already.
You could design an autoclaveable SAB, 100% sterile upon removal from the autoclave. This SAB would be immediately compromised the moment the seal is broken to load vessels or to put your arms in.
Attempting to reduce the spore load in your SAB via UV is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28323052 - 05/17/23 09:54 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: The moment you put your arms into the SAB, it becomes contaminated. To be completely honest, unless your SAB is hermetically sealed, it's contaminated already.
You could design an autoclaveable SAB, 100% sterile upon removal from the autoclave. This SAB would be immediately compromised the moment the seal is broken to load vessels or to put your arms in.
Attempting to reduce the spore load in your SAB via UV is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.
You're right of course. All I'm doing is using a bigger bucket.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart]
#28323055 - 05/17/23 09:55 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Okie dokie.
Quote:
Edward John Smith said: We're going to need a bigger bucket
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Yuggoth
Mi-Go Cultivator



Registered: 03/04/23
Posts: 493
Loc: Lost Carcosa
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart]
#28323080 - 05/17/23 10:17 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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When I got interested in this stuff I was also fretting my SAB, and always windows shopping flow hoods, and trying to think of ways to improve processes. But my current view is, "damn, this is actually easier than I thought it would be." People are doing good work in SABs that look like literal roadside garbage.
I'd like to try pouring petri dishes inside an SAB that had been sprayed down chicken soup that has been sitting out for a day. That would be a fun experiment. Except for the cleaning.
-------------------- We have not succeeded in answering all our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things. -- Earl C. Kelley Things I really wish I knew when I started // Vacuum sealer discussion thread // Shroomery gif zoo
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Moshe
Professional Idiot


Registered: 02/16/23
Posts: 218
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: jungatheart]
#28323211 - 05/17/23 11:57 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
jungatheart said: I have to say being new to this forum seems to be an invitation to be condescended to. Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I know nothing.
Don't mind them, they're just bitter because they have to answer these for all the eternity 
I think the point was, "sterilizing" and "preventing your shit from getting infected" are two separate concepts, each requiring it's own set of techniques and procedures.
Welcome to Shroomery i guess
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Moshe] 2
#28323217 - 05/17/23 11:59 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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If you were to read all 20 pages of comments, you'll find many of these questions asked and answered many times over.
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Yuggoth]
#28323223 - 05/17/23 12:04 PM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yuggoth said: When I got interested in this stuff I was also fretting my SAB, and always windows shopping flow hoods, and trying to think of ways to improve processes. But my current view is, "damn, this is actually easier than I thought it would be." People are doing good work in SABs that look like literal roadside garbage.
I'd like to try pouring petri dishes inside an SAB that had been sprayed down chicken soup that has been sitting out for a day. That would be a fun experiment. Except for the cleaning.
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jungatheart
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/22
Posts: 135
Last seen: 21 hours, 38 seconds
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Moshe]
#28323224 - 05/17/23 12:06 PM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moshe said:
Quote:
jungatheart said: I have to say being new to this forum seems to be an invitation to be condescended to. Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I know nothing.
Don't mind them, they're just bitter because they have to answer these for all the eternity 
I think the point was, "sterilizing" and "preventing your shit from getting infected" are two separate concepts, each requiring it's own set of techniques and procedures.
Welcome to Shroomery i guess 
I think you hit in on the nose. I appreciate the welcome, thanks.
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