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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28210181 - 03/01/23 07:59 PM (10 months, 22 days ago)

So a glovebox is not okay but SAB is?

The level of delusion :tongue:

So long as the box is hermitically sealed (as well as the glove insertions) this makes no sense.

There should be no "vortex" created because there should be no fluid contact between the internal and external air.

Any movement of your hands in a SAB or GB is enough to create a movement large enough to unsettle the sedimentation of the particulates at the bottom. Even micro "stutters" of your hands. Seeing as the particles are light enough to float in the air in the first place. (and every part of your body is giving off a thermal/skin "cloud" so to speak.) 

And as friendly reminder, bacteria can control their fluid buoyancy. They learned to do that from hundreds of millions of years evolution LMAO!

Meaning they can make themselves lighter than air in search of nutrition and ruin your entire SAB idea.

Anyway


Regarding MERV and HEPA, MERV can catch some of the larger containments (which would give you about 10-20% less contam), but definitely not any of the actual bacteria that can float by themselves. Or that latch onto even smaller particles.

I want you guys to think of it likes this. Not all birds can fly, but a lot do. Most aren't flying all the time. The smaller you are the easier it is to fly and keep flying. So one of the smallest things in existence... As well bacteria can "walk" its called flagella. Human sperm cells borrowed that little micro invention. 

Just to conclude though a DIY hepa filter glued to a fan is just fine. Sure they won't achieve 80-99% filtration. But any filtration is better than none.

Laminar flow is important to keep contaminated air away from the clean flow, but again you aren't in a operating room with a patient on the table. It's a damn mushroom.


--------------------
Those who act like they know all, know nothing.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: flowhood, DIY, affordable, tested [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28210187 - 03/01/23 08:07 PM (10 months, 22 days ago)

If you had a nickel for every time you heard "wow" from a female you would have no nickels. :grin:

I on the other hand would be very rich.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: flowhood, DIY, affordable, tested [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28210195 - 03/01/23 08:14 PM (10 months, 22 days ago)

Nope I hate discord. (That was compulsive, no flaming here. Just a pun.)

Anyway I do agree with you regarding Laminar flow hoods.

It's usually cheaper to just buy them, because the filters and fans are pretty expensive. And so is the plywood and the time you need to make them yourself (if you're skilled enough at carpentry)

But the options are either 2000$ custom or lab version or podunk poop for 300-100$.

I saw some guy slap a merv filter on a plastic bin and charge 210$ for it. :sad:


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28210975 - 03/02/23 12:07 PM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Shroomin4u said:
But the options are either 2000$ custom or lab version or podunk poop for 300-100$.




whats the problem with $500-700 ffu units:shrug:




Nothing, It's just a hit or miss with the suppliers. You could either get a good one or a bad one.

I don't like to gamble with half a thousand dollars.



Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
There is an internal atmosphere, turbulence is created by disturbing the internal atmosphere within a hermetically sealed glove box. Glove boxes are intended for use with materials that cannot come into contact with the external environment for any number of reasons; still air is not a consideration for glove box' because they're not intended for sterile culture work in a microbiology lab.

Perhaps if the glove box was a true vacuum, maybe then you could make some claim regarding turbulence, until then:lol:

Cmon man, at least think before posting.

Also, what happened to friendly conversations? Why do these posts always come flavored with a hint of hostility?




This is a great example of what goes on here. "You're a idiot think before you post" to "Why are you so rude and hostile"

I'm honestly not even going to argue with you, because everything you say is like listening to a AI. Everything is coming out garbled and contradictory.


But let me break it down EVEN MORE. I will make this incredibly simple.

-SAB bad because they have bad stuff in air still. Hands go in mix bad stuff with good stuff. Ruin point of SAB. (Doing something and failing then making up a reason that conflicts with your original intent is cognitive dissonance.)

-Glovebox good because it no need you put the bad stuff in good stuff. Glovebox only glovebox if glovebox is sealed from bad stuff.

-Just like, tree only tree if it made of wood and make leaves.

-Your Argument is "well if a tree isnt a tree it cant make leaves" -> "If a glovebox isnt a glovebox it won't work like a glovebox"


--------------------
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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28211284 - 03/02/23 04:34 PM (10 months, 21 days ago)

You load them in the sealed box and use chemical sterilizer. (preferably the organism would be sealed in its own container as well. To allow it time for the sanitizer to settle.)

It settles to the bottom of the box, but unlike contaminants the very small amounts you move via your arms and hands don't do much. For one most sterilizers can be brute forced (Lets say a certain chemical binds to the proteins on a organisms membrane. Then if you have more organisms compared to this chemical its effects are muted.)

With containments even one very small organism can quickly multiply into several million in a matter of days. Chemicals don't multiply. They don't land in nutrients and divide and conquer. They're a linear problem vs a non linear answer.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28211299 - 03/02/23 04:46 PM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
Noobs act as though I made up these contraptions, then fine tuned the physics which govern them.

The OP is a simple exposition of existing equipment and why/how they work, none of this is my material, orher than the wording used to describe them, lol.

I mean, all of this is self explanatory, none of this is particularly advanced. Noobs pick some minor detail they don't like and then throw a fit :rofl:

ad hominem, stawmen= noob tek

:begone:

Edit:

I might add that true gloveboxes are often employed in clean rooms, the glovebox itself is either operated by filling with inert gas or by evacuating the chamber via vacuum; if taping dish gloves to a plastic tote makes a glovebox then sticking a feather in your butt makes you a chicken.



Quote:

Two types of gloveboxes exist. The first allows a person to work with hazardous substances, such as radioactive materials or infectious disease agents, and the second allows manipulation of substances that must be contained within a very high purity inert atmosphere, such as argon or nitrogen. It is also possible to use a glovebox for manipulation of items in a vacuum chamber.




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glovebox

Gloveboxes start at around 2k$, sounds like you have a difficult time justifying 500$, I'd probs just use a SAB, but what do I know :lol:





Two points, stop calling me a noob if you don't like ad hominem you hypocritical oaf. Although I suspect this was bait to get me to attack you.

Second point. You are purposefully ignoring the price of HEPA filters and the fans that can overcome those kind of resistances. They range from a minimum of 200-900$

Gaskets, hinges, latches, etc. Plywood, 2x4s, etc. Cost a extremely small fraction of that. Not to mention you have to match your fan and filters with laminar math (because laminar flow is a mathematic equation.) A good quality GB would cost a fraction of what a laminar flow hood would.

As well SABs are just primitive Glove boxes. Or rather glove boxes are just upgrades to still air boxes.

Pretending like I want to slap gloves into drilled holes in a plastic bin is just what you want to hear because you can't even imagine that you're wrong. So you'll just contuine living in delusion and beleiving that I'm not as smart as you (how sad.)

-sidenote You don't need inert gas for a glovebox, but you could easily purchase said gas from a welding shop if you wanted to use it.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28211358 - 03/02/23 05:34 PM (10 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Right but what chemical sterilizer do you recommend?




If you want to handle bacterial/fungal cells and spores all at once you would need to use either bleach or a acid like vinegar/phosphoric food grade (do not mix these whatsoever as it can create things like mustard gas or combustibles) although I'm not entirely sure this would work on spores.


Now that I've put a little more thought into it I would use a H14/H13 purifier (they can be bought for like 80$) and make sure I see "99.7 percent of airborne particles 0.3 microns and larger" on it. Along with either "true hepa" or "absolute hepa" as those are regulated terms like the marketing slogan organic. Which means they're guaranteed to filter 95-97% of the stuff that causes contams.

With this suggestion the filter is just what it is, a filter. It only needs to be large enough to cycle the air through it. And with a confined space like a GB we're getting a lot of bang for our buck.

I would estimate the cost to actually build the glovebox I'm imaging to be about 400-500$

I imagine it to be ply joinery or a framed osb box. With a large solid transparent plastic piece to view your work. You would need either a hatch or airlock to push material into it.

Every gap should be filled with a gasketing material, as well the surfaces should be smooth and non rough. To limit the places bacteria or spores could hide. Maybe adding thin surfaces of metal would work.

The core of it's function would be the air purifying unit. But it can be a cheap one because its a confined sealed small space. Where air is very still and the worry of contaminated air mixing with the filtered air is not a concern.

Actually I think I'm to act on this idea when I get money for the materials. Probably going to use some of the old tools I have lying around to make a prototype.

The reason I don't make LFHs is because their profit margins are so low. This sounds like greed. But I could spend 4 hours building one to sell for 400-500$ and get maybe 10 bucks for my time and effort. Most of that bad margin is from the production cost and not the labor. Again the filters and fans are expensive.

For labs it makes sense because the cost enters diminishing returns. But building something like this for a production focused individual is almost impossible because you don't need or want such a large expensive unit.

The profit margins on GBs are much better because the filter doesn't need to be large and the fan is not a concern because the work surface is the box itself. Not the filter.




Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
Quote:

Shroomin4u said:
You load them in the sealed box and use chemical sterilizer. (preferably the organism would be sealed in its own container as well. To allow it time for the sanitizer to settle.)

It settles to the bottom of the box, but unlike contaminants the very small amounts you move via your arms and hands don't do much. For one most sterilizers can be brute forced (Lets say a certain chemical binds to the proteins on a organisms membrane. Then if you have more organisms compared to this chemical its effects are muted.)

....Chemicals don't multiply. They don't land in nutrients and divide and conquer. They're a linear problem vs a non linear answer.






Or you can use a SAB with the floor sprayed with soapy water which traps airborne particles and neutralizes vegetative bacteria/live cells by rupturing the cell walls, which is the standard operating procedure for the SAB.



Also, you're literally new, so yeah, you're a noob.

If you have a hard-on for gloveboxes then go write a glovebox post.




Okay grandpa, you're being extremely childish and annoying. You have nothing remotely constructive to offer. So I'm just not acknowledging you anymore.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: San Pedro Girl]
    #28263156 - 04/05/23 08:14 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

San Pedro Girl said:
Quote:

Shroomin4u said:
Two points, stop calling me a noob if you don't like ad hominem you hypocritical oaf. Although I suspect this was bait to get me to attack you.

Second point. You are purposefully ignoring the price of HEPA filters and the fans that can overcome those kind of resistances. They range from a minimum of 200-900$

Gaskets, hinges, latches, etc. Plywood, 2x4s, etc. Cost a extremely small fraction of that. Not to mention you have to match your fan and filters with laminar math (because laminar flow is a mathematic equation.) A good quality GB would cost a fraction of what a laminar flow hood would.

As well SABs are just primitive Glove boxes. Or rather glove boxes are just upgrades to still air boxes.

Pretending like I want to slap gloves into drilled holes in a plastic bin is just what you want to hear because you can't even imagine that you're wrong. So you'll just contuine living in delusion and beleiving that I'm not as smart as you (how sad.)

-sidenote You don't need inert gas for a glovebox, but you could easily purchase said gas from a welding shop if you wanted to use it.



The crew around here are more about practical application vs speculation. A lot of members grow well using SABs and FFUs. Hell, some even do open air transfers. A lot have failed or discovered the useless/inferior nature of glove boxes, but the point is they are speaking from experience. The best way to prove your point is to knock out some amazing, contamination free grows with your glove box, showing that with the same money/time commitment you get better results than other methods.

I promise that Stipe-n cap, et al will shut up and respect you for demonstrating innovation with results. Or if you come back after trying and failing, but learn from that failure, they’ll also respect you. I think what they’re having a hard time with is obstinance sans results.

Welcome and good luck!😊




I no longer care about anyone or anything on this site, in fact I'm going to mog on all of you and never speak a single word of my results. (Already have.)

I'm not surprised the mods muted me for not circle jerking like their butt buddies. Some poor woman came here asking if cat food would work in agar and she gets unsolicited life advice about how shit she is as a wife and mother...

Which is why no one on this forum will ever get any advice from me again. I'm not going to feed them information when all they've ever done is offer whack advice about SABs or teks.

The only reason I'm still here is because I'm keeping a eye out for anyone who's interested in mycology and isn't either a total loser (read morally bankrupt) or corrupted by power.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: dyel]
    #28263207 - 04/05/23 08:30 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

dyel said:
i assume laminar flow is a range and not a number or else it will be only a line and not an area (im referring to the working area in front of the hood) since flow will lose velocity due to friction and physics stuff
wikipedia is saying something about Reynolds number but I'm still not completely clear about it
guess I'll need to do some research then




The way my brother (who's a chemical engineer) explained laminar flow to me is a uniform flow of a fluid or liquid through a pipe (laminar flow is calculated by the dimensions of that pipe) the HEPA scheme just co opts that and so the actual equation for determining laminar flow needs to be modified to fit the paradigm of forcing air through a filter and not a pipe.

Laminar flow with a filter is determined by the work of the fan (how much cubic air it can displace in a set amount of time) and the resistance and dimensions of your housing+filter. If you do a little research on the filter you buy they'll have some literature usually for the parameters you need to meet for stable sterile air flow.

(If you want to fully understand laminar flow you'll need to work on a chemical engineering degree. Because that's the profession it's basically built for. They use it to calculate the gases and chemicals they need to flow through the various reactors and systems. It's important for them to know it to prevent back flow that would blow up their designs. Also to optimize the reactant and catalysts mixing or whatever.)


--------------------
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Edited by Shroomin4u (04/05/23 08:34 AM)


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28263271 - 04/05/23 09:13 AM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

Shroomin4u said:


Which is why no one on this forum will ever get any advice from me again.



Oh no, what a loss to the community.
:bathtub40lol:





Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
Listen, ma'am. This is a forum dedicated to the cultivation of mushrooms. Fungal culturing falls under the umbrella of mycology and microbiology. Everything found within the text of the OP had been adapted from the science-based operating procedures of those disciplines.

Everything found in the OP is supported by objective science, not subjective opinion. Everything described is foundational, understood, accepted/received knowledge and equipment employed by both disciplines. If you have an issue with anything listed or stated in the OP then the issue is lays with you.

You can caterwaul all you like but you will find it difficult to kick against the pricks of received scientific wisdom; Furthermore: this is a drug forum full of smartasses, if you can't take it, I get it, but the next time you derail my thread with wook bullshit I'll slap you with a 30 day time out so that you can focus more on devil stick drills, spoon playing, and poncho knitting. Prrhaps then you'll learn some manners/communication skills.

Capeesh?

Also:

Quote:

Quote:

Shroomin4u said:

Laminar flow with a filter is determined by the work of the fan (how much cubic air it can displace in a set amount of time) and the resistance and dimensions of your housing+filter. If you do a little research on the filter you buy they'll have some literature usually for the parameters you need to meet for stable sterile air flow.





Sounds familiar, did you even read the OP? :facepalm3:

Stay on topic :kingcrankey:




bruh stop spamming me. I don't care if you guys spaz out from basic science just dont @ me. I would block and ignore you all instead of dropping a comment but that apparently doesn't work.


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: Box fan flowhoods, Glove boxes, Positive pressure boxes and Automated Mono-Tubs [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28263282 - 04/05/23 09:18 AM (9 months, 18 days ago)

Wow I thought you were some rando, but when I went to block and ignore you it says your a admin. How shameful, it's like you're a 15 year old on discord. No wonder you're husband site muted me.


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