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Baba Yaga
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PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery 14
#27609098 - 01/06/22 12:38 PM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
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PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery
TL;DR: Have you ever had the problem where your LC just doesn't want to recover when putting it to grain for no obvious reason while agar wedges are doing alright? Now why not just using agar wedges then?.......because LC is so much easier to inoculate with, no stack of petris cluttering up my SAB, no flaming and cutting required and 10 Jars can be done in one or two minutes. This method will help getting LCs of more delicate species to colonize grain jars better, at least it does the trick for me.
I am working in a SAB and love to use LC as it is way easier and faster to use media bottles to inoculate jars instead of having a stack of petri dishes and cutting wedges in a full SAB. In some cases though I have a problem where my LC just doesn't want to recover or only very very slowly.
With some cultures/species it takes 1-2 weeks before I see first signs of growth and another 1-1.5 weeks before I could say the mycelium has established itself on the grain and it doesn't make much of a difference whether I shake the jars after inculation or just gently roll them or do nothing for a few days. Once the mycelium grows out a bit and after I give the jars a shake the cultures are taking off all of a sudden and are colonizing at normal speed but because of the initial lack of vigor my grain jars often take 5 weeks till done or even longer which is utterly ridiculous for LC inoculation.
This problem mainly occurs with my Panaeolus cultures, to a far lesser degree with Cubensis and is non existent with Woodlovers. 
In the end the fully colonized jars are looking great and the bulk gets colonized fast. It happens on all the types of grain I used so far: oats, wheat and rye and is also independent from how the grain was prepped so I assume that this is not grain related and as everything works out great in the end it's not any sort of contamination either.
I went back to using wedges for a while but I'm always watching what other members do and how they utilize old methods in new creative ways and after reading how Josex and Veggie are using PF-tek substrate in their cultivation work I finally realized that this substrate could be the solution to my problem.
Natedawgnow has a sweet Semi-Solid Liquid Culture Tek which can also help in this situation, might be a better fit for you and is definitely worthwhile checking out.
This is the workaround:
I make enough PF-tek substrate to end up with two heaped tablespoons worth per grain jar. I use whole meal flour for this as everything gets put through the PC so BRF is not essential here, any grain flour will do. I use a ratio of 1:3 flour to vermiculite and enough water to make the mix moist but fluffy.
Then I drop a couple of TBSP on top of the grain. This stays there, I spread it out a bit but do not mix it in.

When pouring the LC the PF-substrate catches the mycelium where it will recover fast. Pan Cambo 6 days after inoculation.

If you spread the PF-Tek layer out thin then it will break up easy and will give you lots of inoculation points. Pan Cambo 5 days after the first shake, 11 days in total. The smashing up part works better the heavier the grain is, like wheat/rye will do a better job at this than oats/millet. The type of mushroom will also determine how well the puck will break up, like cube mycelium is usually stronger than pan.

This is Semilanceata before and 4 days after the shake. It breaks up easier than other mycelia and gives lots of inoculation points.

All of these jars were inoculated 12 days ago before the photo was taken. First two jars were shaken two days apart and had a top layer of PF-tek substrate which was left to colonize before the shake and the last one is just grain inoculated at the same time with the same LC doing fuck all.

Pan Cambo jar after 3 weeks.

This method basically cuts my colonization times for Panaeolus and other problematic species inoculated with LC in half. Still no light speed but at least I do get some of the benefits that come with using LCs and the Jars are finishing in reasonable time instead of being slow as hell or doing nothing at all.
After a while of using this technique I do it with most of the jars and for most species cause it is nice to be able to see how the PF top is getting colonized which helps seeing contamination early on and everything is working as it should. Needless to say that the jars which get put sideways on top will not look that nice.
Edited by Baba Yaga (12/11/23 12:46 PM)
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Twistedzombie66
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27609126 - 01/06/22 01:06 PM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
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Nice write up!
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mistermushly

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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27640365 - 02/01/22 03:39 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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cool trick! thanks Baba Yaga
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gt40
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: mistermushly]
#27677014 - 02/28/22 02:30 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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great, thank you. on the same boat for a few months. happy you claim that it's not sign of contamination.
I guess it can be done with straw pellets instead of pf-sub. pellets willl dissolve with LC than hundreads of inoculation points available. will try myself
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Ankhseramun
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27677088 - 02/28/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Damn Babay Yaga that's a great write up and a great idea!
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#27677172 - 02/28/22 05:08 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Cool tek!
The PF material acts like a nutritional kindling to the mycelium growth
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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Mateja



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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#27677187 - 02/28/22 05:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Interesting writeup Baba 
Have you ever measured how much LC you're using for each jar? And then maybe tried pouring more or less and then compared colonization times? I personally notice that colonization times increase a lot when I inoculate with 5ml compared to 10 or 20ml.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Crackatoa
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#27677197 - 02/28/22 05:28 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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 I'm gonna have to try this. My LCs don't take long, I use SSLC. I'm trying this though, def potential. I'm digging it. I'll post pics when I do. I like to let my LC get pretty colonized. I've noticed longer wait times when I rushed it and thought, good enough.
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fahtster
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Crackatoa] 1
#27677796 - 03/01/22 02:21 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Very cool
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DERRAYLD
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: fahtster]
#27677824 - 03/01/22 03:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Nice idea and writeup
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Crackatoa] 1
#27678315 - 03/01/22 02:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks guys, I figured this out when I tried having some verm at the bottom of the jars to suck up excess liquid and noticed that the LC would recover on verm granules only.
Quote:
gt40 said: great, thank you. on the same boat for a few months. happy you claim that it's not sign of contamination.
I guess it can be done with straw pellets instead of pf-sub. pellets willl dissolve with LC than hundreads of inoculation points available. will try myself
I guess lots of material can work, straw pellets or coir are worth a try. Wished I could get straw pellets here, seems like an awesome material.
Quote:
Mateja said: Have you ever measured how much LC you're using for each jar? And then maybe tried pouring more or less and then compared colonization times? I personally notice that colonization times increase a lot when I inoculate with 5ml compared to 10 or 20ml.
Quote:
Crackatoa said: My LCs don't take long, I use SSLC. I'm trying this though, def potential. I'm digging it. I'll post pics when I do. I like to let my LC get pretty colonized. I've noticed longer wait times when I rushed it and thought, good enough.
I'm pouring and do roughly 10ml per jar. Will try and do less and thicker LC next time and SSLC is dope as well, maybe I should revisit it. The few time I tried it it was in combination with with the Josex poke and I liked to let the tissue on top grow out for a bit before shaking it up to see if it's clean.
Thanks for the tips
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san pedro guy
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#27678354 - 03/01/22 02:22 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Thanks guys, I figured this out when I tried having some verm at the bottom of the jars to suck up excess liquid and noticed that the LC would recover on verm granules only.
I had a similar idea for excess moisture. I was thinking about trying to add a bit of un hydrated grains to absorb any excess. Like when you drop the phone in the toilet so you stick it in rice hahaha
Nice tek tho, I like the way you think
-------------------- Noob Grow Along 2022
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Zifozonke
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: san pedro guy]
#27679513 - 03/02/22 10:19 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Great idea Baba!! Gonna try this on some old pan LCs I've had sitting round for a few months Hopefully this will spring them back to life
   
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Zifozonke]
#27679692 - 03/02/22 12:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Will definitely be interested in the result, made some low nute LCs with Pan clones and hoping they are going to survive my 6 month break from growing.
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JHOVA
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28098877 - 12/15/22 02:28 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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this is cool. eatyualive had a tek where he transferred pfcakes with a fork to grain jars and then adapted that to a slurry method you pour out for around 3-5 day colonization.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: JHOVA]
#28098898 - 12/15/22 02:41 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Have you got a link to eats post? Will try find it later.
LC is recovering on the PF substrate in half the time as on grain and once you shake a jar with a fully colonized top they are finishing up in 3-5 days with aggressive colonizers like pans. I mostly use pans and have noticed that the puck breaks up better when using heavier grain like wheat or barley. Oats are a bit too light to smash the PF substrate up so there are bigger clumps but still a lot of inoculation points. I have a theory thinking that recovery is fast after a shake due to the verm being soft and acting like a buffer, protecting the mycelium from getting hurt too much.
Well I like it.......thing we do, right?
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JHOVA
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28098950 - 12/15/22 03:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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p2g he got flamed so much for his methods. i think the pf runs so fast it doesnt even matter if competing stuff gets on it in a sab or whatever. hes even done pf to pf in a plastic ziplock and that stuff finishes fast.
i saw a video of a guy that used huge spawn amount for edilbes and room temp water no pasteurization for his sub and the bags fruited very well. check it out
slurry tek
baggin with bosley slurry in action
verm has some of the best leap off out there period.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: JHOVA]
#28098959 - 12/15/22 03:18 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks mate, will give this a read
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Floret
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28186515 - 02/14/23 12:46 AM (11 months, 7 days ago) |
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Did your pans survive your six month break?
-------------------- LAGM 2024
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Floret] 1
#28186572 - 02/14/23 01:45 AM (11 months, 7 days ago) |
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Yes, after 10 month I used 2 clone LCs and poured some to new LC broth and they started growing out almost instantly. Still got some left to try after 2 years.
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Floret
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28187202 - 02/14/23 02:15 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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Can't wait to hear how they do after two years. What conditions do you store them in? This is pan cambo? Bispo? Cyan?
-------------------- LAGM 2024
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Floret]
#28187251 - 02/14/23 02:51 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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It's cambo at room temp.
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JHOVA
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28187320 - 02/14/23 03:44 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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This reminds me i should try this tek out.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: JHOVA]
#28187370 - 02/14/23 04:36 PM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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I used his with the semilanceata jars I got here at the moment as I am very unsure if the cultures I used to inoculate were contaminated with mold or not. It's just hard to tell the way the myc looks and the prints are quite dirty. Having the mycelium colonize the top first kind of separated the different types and mold got through first or different types myc were easier to tell apart.

I was running a few pan jars without the PF sub on top and they were doing fine but I still like this a lot.
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Floret
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28187992 - 02/15/23 12:26 AM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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You make pans look so easy! So many great teks Baba!
Do you toss the jars that show contam on the pf topping?
-------------------- LAGM 2024
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Floret] 1
#28188015 - 02/15/23 01:22 AM (11 months, 6 days ago) |
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Thanks buddy and yes, everything gets tossed of course. You will always fuck up in this hobby regardless how long you are doing it for, the trick is to recognize it and toss things as early as possible.
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fuktardles
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28578385 - 12/11/23 10:02 AM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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* * please forgive replying a slightly older topic * *
first of, thank you Baba for posting this; it looks like it may possibly have some potential for giving a boost to some older spores i have that for some reason they seem to be taking a slower approach to life than when i originally grew them. i am in california and obtaining new cube spores is already quite difficult which is part of the reason why i'm using these older spore prints, the other part is that i really liked the way they turned out the last time i grew them, but now they seem to be taking the scenic route as opposed to getting to their destination in an expedient manner.
i have not yet had the opportunity to grow any Pans yet [even harder to get their spores here in cali, or so it seems from my attempts] which seems to have been the impetus for creating this tek but it looks like it should help me out with my cubesque-dilemna, too. But since i will be trying it on cubes instead of Pans, is there anything different that you might recommend?
one final note: i will to follow your tek as is as it seems it best accomplish what i'm want. But while typing this an idea popped up in my head--in regard to your Pans, by chance did you also happen to try mixing your PF-SUB into the grains (instead of leaving the pf-sub on top) and then inoculating with the LC? I'm wondering if the mycelia would then jump off on all or even half of the bits of vermiculite+ already scattered throughout your grain, thereby eliminating the need to wait a few days for the top growth and also the need to shake it because it would have been pre-shook?? If not, maybe the next time you use PF-TOPPING, maybe you may want to try an extra jar or 2 with PF-TOPPING [premixed] to compare.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------- take it easy, peace out mf-ers & balls to the wall! theo
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: fuktardles]
#28578521 - 12/11/23 12:36 PM (1 month, 16 days ago) |
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Feel free to experiment. You could certainly give it a try and mix the pf sub with the grain and see how the recovery goes. Apart from speeding things up I just like having it colonize on top as it does act like a petri dish placed on top of the grain. That way I have another opportunity to check the health of the culture and especially molds that snug in during inoculation are easy to spot.
Now you are talking about spores. When you use a print or syringe (maybe an old one?) to inoculate then you will still run a high risk of failure if the spores are contaminated with bacteria. It might help with the initial germination and building strong first growth since bacteria is out run easily by mycelium on PF substrate but once you shake the jar it will disperse everything throughout the jar and will make it possible for bacteria to multiply as well.
If you have spores/a syringe which is problematic then you are better off to go the full PF-TEK rout and obtain a clean culture via sample tissue or by taking transfers from the PF substrate or the very least make some nice clean spore prints once you get fruits to make new syringes which might work better for what you like to use them.
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fuktardles
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28579850 - 12/12/23 11:14 AM (1 month, 16 days ago) |
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I was doing spores to agar, then agar to LC, and also agar to grain (oats) and LC to grain and then finally grain to to substrate. Spore to agar always seems a little slow to me. But now it seems like all the steps after the agar are growing much slower than when i initially grew these.
By the way, these are RustyWhytes. The first time around they all seemed to grow at a moderate to quick speed, plus they were large and also more potent than what I had grown before.
Even though they seemed clean on agar, by the time they finished colonizing the grain jars, many would bacteria out or if they did make it grain the substrate would trich out. But now that i think about it, my problem may have been from trying to grow in the miserable SoCal heat again. If our fucking governor hadn't vetoed the psychedelics bill, it probably would be easier to get fresh spores here, and i would move on.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------- take it easy, peace out mf-ers & balls to the wall! theo
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Baba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: fuktardles]
#28579946 - 12/12/23 12:56 PM (1 month, 15 days ago) |
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Hey, you are already a member for a few years now and if you manage to make 30 more posts (ideally meaning full ones) then you will get access to the marketplace which might make your life easier.
I regards to your problem I would suggest you make a dedicated post to troubleshoot the problems you are having and reviewing your process. Include a few photos of your cultures and explain your work steps a bit and through this discussion you will most likely find a solution to your situation and will have gathered enough posts fr marketplace access.
I will stay logged out for a while and mostly be absent til the New Year, if you do not want to make your own thread then here are a couple of good places to ask questions.
Recognizing and dealing with contamination
Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers
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fuktardles
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28593959 - 12/22/23 10:59 AM (1 month, 6 days ago) |
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Thanks Baba. frustration set in and whilst doing some winter cleaning i found a bag with some prints. so, i tossed what i had and i'm gonna start from scratch, making sure to follow the teks. I appreciate the advice. being autistic gives me plenty of issues, but i will try and keep my head together enough to take pics, if i can manage. but at the least i will keep an eye on technique foremost. and go from there. wonderful holidays and fresh year to you and yourn.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------- take it easy, peace out mf-ers & balls to the wall! theo
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