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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery * 14
    #27609098 - 01/06/22 12:38 PM (2 years, 21 days ago)

PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery

TL;DR: Have you ever had the problem where your LC just doesn't want to recover when putting it to grain for no obvious reason while agar wedges are doing alright?
Now why not just using agar wedges then?.......because LC is so much easier to inoculate with, no stack of petris cluttering up my SAB, no flaming and
cutting required and 10 Jars can be done in one or two minutes. This method will help getting LCs of more delicate species to colonize grain jars better,
at least it does the trick for me.


I am working in a SAB and love to use LC as it is way easier and faster to use media bottles to inoculate jars instead of having
a stack of petri dishes and cutting wedges in a full SAB. In some cases though I have a problem where my LC just doesn't want to
recover or only very very slowly.

With some cultures/species it takes 1-2 weeks before I see first signs of growth and another 1-1.5 weeks before I could say the
mycelium has established itself on the grain and it doesn't make much of a difference whether I shake the jars after inculation or
just gently roll them or do nothing for a few days. Once the mycelium grows out a bit and after I give the jars a shake the
cultures are taking off all of a sudden and are colonizing at normal speed but because of the initial lack of vigor my grain jars often
take 5 weeks till done or even longer which is utterly ridiculous for LC inoculation.

This problem mainly occurs with my Panaeolus cultures, to a far lesser degree with Cubensis and is non existent with Woodlovers. :shrug:

In the end the fully colonized jars are looking great and the bulk gets colonized fast. It happens on all the types of grain I used
so far: oats, wheat and rye and is also independent from how the grain was prepped so I assume that this is not grain related and
as everything works out great in the end it's not any sort of contamination either.

I went back to using wedges for a while but I'm always watching what other members do and how they utilize old methods in new creative
ways and after reading how Josex and Veggie are using PF-tek substrate in their cultivation work I finally realized that this substrate could
be the solution to my problem.

Natedawgnow has a sweet Semi-Solid Liquid Culture Tek which can also help in this situation, might be a better fit for you and is definitely
worthwhile checking out.


This is the workaround:

I make enough PF-tek substrate to end up with two heaped tablespoons worth per grain jar. I use whole meal flour for this as everything
gets put through the PC so BRF is not essential here, any grain flour will do. I use a ratio of 1:3 flour to vermiculite and enough water
to make the mix moist but fluffy.

Then I drop a couple of TBSP on top of the grain. This stays there, I spread it out a bit but do not mix it in.




When pouring the LC the PF-substrate catches the mycelium where it will recover fast.
Pan Cambo 6 days after inoculation.




If you spread the PF-Tek layer out thin then it will break up easy and will give you lots of inoculation points.
Pan Cambo 5 days after the first shake, 11 days in total. The smashing up part works better the heavier the grain
is, like wheat/rye will do a better job at this than oats/millet. The type of mushroom will also determine how
well the puck will break up, like cube mycelium is usually stronger than pan.





This is Semilanceata before and 4 days after the shake. It breaks up easier than other mycelia and gives lots of inoculation points.




All of these jars were inoculated 12 days ago before the photo was taken. First two jars were shaken two days apart and had a top
layer of PF-tek substrate which was left to colonize before the shake and the last one is just grain inoculated at the same time
with the same LC doing fuck all.





Pan Cambo jar after 3 weeks.




This method basically cuts my colonization times for Panaeolus and other problematic species inoculated with LC in half. Still no light
speed but at least I do get some of the benefits that come with using LCs and the Jars are finishing in reasonable time instead of
being slow as hell or doing nothing at all.

After a while of using this technique I do it with most of the jars and for most species cause it is nice to be able to see how the PF top is
getting colonized which helps seeing contamination early on and everything is working as it should. Needless to say that the jars which get put sideways on top will not look that nice.

:sun:


Edited by Baba Yaga (12/11/23 12:46 PM)


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OfflineTwistedzombie66
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27609126 - 01/06/22 01:06 PM (2 years, 21 days ago)

Nice write up!


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Offlinemistermushly

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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27640365 - 02/01/22 03:39 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

cool trick!
thanks Baba Yaga


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Offlinegt40
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: mistermushly]
    #27677014 - 02/28/22 02:30 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

great, thank you. on the same boat for a few months.
happy you claim that it's not sign of contamination.

I guess it can be done with straw pellets instead of pf-sub. pellets willl dissolve with LC than hundreads of inoculation points available. will try myself


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OfflineAnkhseramun
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27677088 - 02/28/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Damn Babay Yaga that's a great write up and a great idea!


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #27677172 - 02/28/22 05:08 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Cool tek!

The PF material acts like a nutritional kindling to the mycelium growth :takingnotes:


--------------------
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InvisibleMateja
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #27677187 - 02/28/22 05:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Interesting writeup Baba :thumbup:


Have you ever measured how much LC you're using for each jar? And then maybe tried pouring more or less and then compared colonization times? I personally notice that colonization times increase a lot when I inoculate with 5ml compared to 10 or 20ml.


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub


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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #27677197 - 02/28/22 05:28 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

:surprise:
I'm gonna have to try this. My LCs don't take long, I use SSLC. I'm trying this though, def potential. I'm digging it. I'll post pics when I do. I like to let my LC get pretty colonized. I've noticed longer wait times when I rushed it and thought, good enough.


--------------------

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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Crackatoa] * 1
    #27677796 - 03/01/22 02:21 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Very cool :thumbup:


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: fahtster]
    #27677824 - 03/01/22 03:11 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Nice idea and writeup


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Crackatoa] * 1
    #27678315 - 03/01/22 02:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Thanks guys, I figured this out when I tried having some verm at the bottom of the jars to suck up excess liquid and noticed that the LC would recover on verm granules only.


Quote:

gt40 said:
great, thank you. on the same boat for a few months.
happy you claim that it's not sign of contamination.

I guess it can be done with straw pellets instead of pf-sub. pellets willl dissolve with LC than hundreads of inoculation points available. will try myself




I guess lots of material can work, straw pellets or coir are worth a try. Wished I could get straw pellets here, seems like an awesome material.


Quote:

Mateja said:
Have you ever measured how much LC you're using for each jar? And then maybe tried pouring more or less and then compared colonization times? I personally notice that colonization times increase a lot when I inoculate with 5ml compared to 10 or 20ml.




Quote:

Crackatoa said:
My LCs don't take long, I use SSLC. I'm trying this though, def potential. I'm digging it. I'll post pics when I do. I like to let my LC get pretty colonized. I've noticed longer wait times when I rushed it and thought, good enough.




I'm pouring and do roughly 10ml per jar. Will try and do less and thicker LC next time and SSLC is dope as well, maybe I should revisit
it. The few time I tried it it was in combination with with the Josex poke and I liked to let the tissue on top grow out for a bit before
shaking it up to see if it's clean.

Thanks for the tips


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Offlinesan pedro guy
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #27678354 - 03/01/22 02:22 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baba Yaga said:
Thanks guys, I figured this out when I tried having some verm at the bottom of the jars to suck up excess liquid and noticed that the LC would recover on verm granules only.




I had a similar idea for excess moisture. I was thinking about trying to add a bit of un hydrated grains to absorb any excess. Like when you drop the phone in the toilet so you stick it in rice hahaha

Nice tek tho, I like the way you think


--------------------
Noob Grow Along 2022


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InvisibleZifozonke
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: san pedro guy]
    #27679513 - 03/02/22 10:19 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Great idea Baba!!
Gonna try this on some old pan LCs I've had sitting round for a few months
Hopefully this will spring them back to life
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Zifozonke]
    #27679692 - 03/02/22 12:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Will definitely be interested in the result, made some low nute LCs
with Pan clones and hoping they are going to survive my 6 month
break from growing.


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28098877 - 12/15/22 02:28 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

this is cool. eatyualive had a tek where he transferred pfcakes with a fork to grain jars and then adapted that to a slurry method you pour out for around 3-5 day colonization.:thumbup:


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: JHOVA]
    #28098898 - 12/15/22 02:41 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Have you got a link to eats post? Will try find it later.

LC is recovering on the PF substrate in half the time as on grain and once you shake a jar with a fully colonized top they are finishing up in 3-5 days with aggressive colonizers like pans. I mostly use pans and have noticed that the puck breaks up better when using heavier grain like wheat or barley. Oats are a bit too light to smash the PF substrate up so there are bigger clumps but still a lot of inoculation points. I have a theory thinking that recovery is fast after a shake due to the verm being soft and acting like a buffer, protecting the mycelium from getting hurt too much.

Well I like it.......thing we do, right?


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #28098950 - 12/15/22 03:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

p2g he got flamed so much for his methods. i think the pf runs so fast it doesnt even matter if competing stuff gets on it in a sab or whatever. hes even done pf to pf in a plastic ziplock and that stuff finishes fast.

i saw a video of a guy that used huge spawn amount for edilbes and room temp water no pasteurization for his sub and the bags fruited very well. check it out

slurry tek

baggin with bosley
slurry in action

verm has some of the best leap off out there period.


--------------------
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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: JHOVA]
    #28098959 - 12/15/22 03:18 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Thanks mate, will give this a read :thumbup:


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InvisibleFloret
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28186515 - 02/14/23 12:46 AM (11 months, 6 days ago)

Did your pans survive your six month break?


--------------------
LAGM 2024


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: PF-TEK-TOPPING: A Workaround For Slow LC Recovery [Re: Floret] * 1
    #28186572 - 02/14/23 01:45 AM (11 months, 6 days ago)

Yes, after 10 month I used 2 clone LCs and poured some to new LC broth and they started growing out almost instantly. Still got some left to try after 2 years.


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