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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Huge rewards for failure
    #2760246 - 06/03/04 12:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Same as it ever was...

Big bonuses for failing rail bosses
By Alistair Osborne, Associate City Editor

Network Rail awarded huge bonuses to its directors yesterday despite announcing that they had failed to meet any targets for train punctuality and had made an annual loss of ?1.1 billion.

The company, which is subsidised by the taxpayer and is responsible for Britain's tracks, signals and stations, said it had given its five executive directors bonuses equivalent to 24 per cent of their basic salaries. This was despite almost one in five trains running late.

John Armitt, the chief executive, will receive a bonus of ?112,320 on top of his ?468,000 basic pay. His deputy, Iain Coucher, gets ?99,840 in addition to his ?416,000 wage.

Three other directors - Ron Henderson, the finance chief; Peter Henderson, the engineering boss; and Chris Leah, the safety director - will each receive ?75,000 on top of their ?312,000 salaries.

Bob Crow, the RMT union boss who is threatening a strike over Network Rail's decision to close its final salary pension scheme to new staff, said: "If things are improving enough for directors to hand themselves six-figure bonuses, they are improving enough to deliver justice on pensions."

Network Rail is reliant on a ?21 billion support package from the taxpayer to enable it to raise money in the markets. Even so, the Government maintains it is a private company so that it can keep its debt off the public books.

Theresa May, the shadow transport secretary, said: "The Government said Network Rail would cost the taxpayer less than Railtrack. In fact it is costing much more."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht.../ixnewstop.html


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Xlea321]
    #2762736 - 06/04/04 11:33 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It's the same way here in America with Amtrak.  It is a publicly
subsidized rail company that loses money consistently.  I don't
think that it is wise for governments to subsidize companies
like that.  It encourages waste and laziness...hmm....that's just why
I don't agree with welfare for individuals either    :smirk:

And as far as executives receiving nice fat bonuses and such for
absolute failure...I am appalled at that as well.  If a board of
directors(the people who pick who runs the company) is that inept,
then they should be replaced by the shareholders.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2764046 - 06/04/04 05:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't mind someone getting a few bucks to break even and eat tomorrow. But a millionaire awarding himself a payrise ten times bigger than everyone else for doing jackshit? That's a little harder to compute.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineRedo
CTA

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Xlea321]
    #2764595 - 06/04/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Where you you draw the line on somebody breaking even. You cant have everybody breaking even or better, some people have to loose money...


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
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Loc: MI
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Redo]
    #2764823 - 06/05/04 12:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You cant have everybody breaking even or better, some people have to loose money...

True, that is how our money system works.

The bank loans out money (that it created out of thin air) and charges interest. All rocket science aside and you realize that there will never be enough money to pay the debt. So there will always be someone getting the short end of the stick. At least its for a noble reason: financial feudalism!


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2764987 - 06/05/04 01:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

^^^

:laugh:


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Redo]
    #2765471 - 06/05/04 05:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You cant have everybody breaking even or better

Why not?

some people have to loose money...

We could start with the executives awarding themselves ten times more than everyone else tho.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Xlea321]
    #2765560 - 06/05/04 07:13 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You can not have everybody breaking even or better beceause we are not socialists.

And we could not start with people hard earning their money at the top of the ladder, they are up there for a reason. They dont owe anybody their hard earned money, and if they feel like they want a raise they can do that. Its the beauty of capitalism, just because we cant be all on top dosent mean we have to punish those who are on top.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Redo]
    #2765584 - 06/05/04 07:47 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You can not have everybody breaking even or better beceause we are not socialists

Who is "we"?

Certainly most people manage to break even in England. Or they did before Thatcher and Blairs assault on the poor anyway.

They dont owe anybody their hard earned money,

Hard-earned? Have you read what the article says about their performance? And don't forget they recieve enormous subsidies from the taxpayer.

we have to punish those who are on top.

No-ones interested in "punishing" them. Just trying to prevent them awarding themselves massive amounts of other peoples money for miserable failure.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Loc: London UK
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Redo]
    #2765588 - 06/05/04 07:52 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You can not have everybody breaking even or better beceause we are not socialists.




Why limit your thinking so arbitarily? Cold facts show that there is enough potential wealth on earth to provide a very good lifestyle for every single person on the planet. This means we could in fact have a situation where everybody is doing better than "breaking even".
If we can find away to move towards this situation then that is obviously a good thing. Why does it have to be called socialism and then dismissed out of hand by those who merely have an egoic interest in defending capitalism as the only possible way we humans can organise our affairs?
Socialism relies upon centralised power structures just as our current brand of capitalism does. If the people who control these power structures are infected with the greed virus it is irrelevant which ideology they espouse anyway.
We need to promotoe awareness of what our human potential really is and we need to find a way of spreading power amongst people rather than allowing a self serving elite to wield 99% of power on behalf of 99% of the people. This is not socialism which I am talking about it is merely common sense.

Quote:

And we could not start with people hard earning their money at the top of the ladder, they are up there for a reason.




Dont kid yourself. Many of those who inhabit the top rungs of the ladder have never done a days work in their lives, they are only there because of the gene pool they were born into. Answer me honestly, do you think a man of GWB's intellect would have risen to his place of power if he had not been born into one of the most powerful families in America?
Many of the people at the top are also there thanks to the work of thousands of employees who carry out the day to day running of their various businesses. It is fairly well documented that those at the top will hand out massive payrises to themselves on a yearly basis while those they employee receive raises that are completely out of proportion. In doing this these people maintain their place on the ladder through greed, not hard work.


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: GazzBut]
    #2765592 - 06/05/04 07:57 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

:rockon:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
Male
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Xlea321]
    #2765595 - 06/05/04 07:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Who is "we"?

Certainly most people manage to break even in England. Or they did before Thatcher and Blairs assault on the poor anyway.




Care to explain this one, are you referring to jolly days of the trade unions?


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OfflineRedo
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Registered: 04/13/04
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2765716 - 06/05/04 10:22 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We as in capitalists societies.

And why should somebody on top be forced to pay for others to have a 'better' life. That makes leeches off the system, God knows we already have plenty of those. And some CEO's suck yes, but they still dont have to give their money to you or me.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 5 days
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Redo]
    #2765720 - 06/05/04 10:29 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That makes leeches off the system,




To a degree those at the top are leeching off those at the bottom. By paying themselves wages way out of proportion to those lower down the structure they are widening the gap between the richest in society and the poorest.


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: GazzBut]
    #2765739 - 06/05/04 10:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

A gap which has exploded over the last 20 years..coincidentally since discredited "free market" economic ideas were re-introduced.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: GazzBut]
    #2765844 - 06/05/04 12:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Word

I have to agree with Alex123 on your post

  :rockon:


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InvisibleCJay
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Registered: 02/02/04
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Redo]
    #2765863 - 06/05/04 12:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The whole thing is imorral.

Taxpayers are handing over money, and that money (which is supposed to pay for public services) is being given straight to the rich. The money is supposed to run a public service, yet the public services fail and wallow in underinvestment, whilst the rich directors make a massive personal profit from taxpayers money.

This is also going on in the UK education system as Local Education Authorities are privatised. Making money out of providing education produces a major conflict of interest. Individuals and corporate shareholders are making tidy sums from the money taxpayers have contributed to the treasury for the education of their children; whilst the privatised services provider cuts corners and costs and fails to provide.

Taxes continue to rise way out of line with inflation and pay for what?


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: CJay]
    #2765874 - 06/05/04 12:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Those who legitimatly get money from people I dont mind, but if they are somehow leeching off the poor/middle class people (I know some have) it needs to be addressed. I dont like it going either way. I dont like punishing poor or rich people financially for their self-advancement, we do need to have some programs but we already have too many problems here as it is with these welfare programs (USA).


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: CJay]
    #2765924 - 06/05/04 01:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The whole thing is imorral.

Taxpayers are handing over money, and that money (which is supposed to pay for public services) is being given straight to the rich.



The problem is that tax money is paying for these services in the first place.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Huge rewards for failure [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2765949 - 06/05/04 01:23 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The problem is that tax money is paying for these services in the first place.




Are you saying education should not be free?


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Always Smi2le


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